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Thread: ElectroMagnetic Gravity

  1. #1 ElectroMagnetic Gravity 
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    There are 3 similarities between gravity and the EM forces.

    The first is that they both reduce in strength according to the 'Inverse Square Law'.
    Secondly, they both extend to infinity.
    Thirdly, a recent observation has determined that they both propagate at the velocity of light.

    These remarkable coincidences prove that gravity must be a manifestation of the EM forces.
    This can happen if a slight imbalance exists between the attractive and repulsive components with the attraction being slightly greater than the repulsive component.

    The protons acquire synchronous spin because of the power of the coulomb attraction between the two particles.
    So this could happen if the bipolar magnetic fields resulting from the proton spins orient themselves to attract rather then repel. This does happen automatically when the bipolar magnetic fields are in close proximity to each other or even at great distances but more slowly orienting themselves because of the greater distances and weaker interactions.

    This can be easily proven by having one 'bar' magnet lying on the floor and then having another bar magnet tied centrally to a string and gradually lowered to the other magnet. The top magnet will then align itself to be attractive to the lower magnet.

    So the spinning protons in the hydrogen atoms would do likewise to create a weak gravitational effect as well as in any other matter nuclei.
    Since the electron interactions between the atoms are alternating, than their gravitational effects are nullified while the protons attractions are stable and continuous.

    NS


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  3. #2  
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    1: we have already seen this
    2:
    These remarkable coincidences prove that gravity must be a manifestation of the EM forces.
    it proves nothing except those simularities. their differenses outweight what they have in common

    This can happen if a slight imbalance exists between the attractive and repulsive components with the attraction being slightly greater than the repulsive component.
    that would mean that negative and posetive charge is not the same amount so some planets would feel a repulsive force since they got the same little charge over

    the electrical charge is about 0 in every large object, the larger the closer to 0
    and for magnetic force its random direction so its 0 magnetism left over.

    another idea in the drain


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  4. #3 Re: ElectroMagnetic Gravity 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike NS
    There are 3 similarities between gravity and the EM forces.

    The first is that they both reduce in strength according to the 'Inverse Square Law'.
    Secondly, they both extend to infinity.
    Thirdly, a recent observation has determined that they both propagate at the velocity of light.

    These remarkable coincidences prove that gravity must be a manifestation of the EM forces.
    This can happen if a slight imbalance exists between the attractive and repulsive components with the attraction being slightly greater than the repulsive component.

    The protons acquire synchronous spin because of the power of the coulomb attraction between the two particles.
    So this could happen if the bipolar magnetic fields resulting from the proton spins orient themselves to attract rather then repel. This does happen automatically when the bipolar magnetic fields are in close proximity to each other or even at great distances but more slowly orienting themselves because of the greater distances and weaker interactions.

    This can be easily proven by having one 'bar' magnet lying on the floor and then having another bar magnet tied centrally to a string and gradually lowered to the other magnet. The top magnet will then align itself to be attractive to the lower magnet.

    So the spinning protons in the hydrogen atoms would do likewise to create a weak gravitational effect as well as in any other matter nuclei.
    Since the electron interactions between the atoms are alternating, than their gravitational effects are nullified while the protons attractions are stable and continuous.

    NS
    Okay then.

    Please explain to me the gravitational pull of a neutron star.

    (Another great theory of yours down the pan) - but keep thinking !!!
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  5. #4  
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    okey
    if the gravity travels at the speed of light then tell me,
    when there is a change in the gravitational field of the sun, the effect will take place on the earth immediately or after eight minutes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by basim
    okey
    if the gravity travels at the speed of light then tell me,
    when there is a change in the gravitational field of the sun, the effect will take place on the earth immediately or after eight minutes?
    I think you answered your own question there - if the sun had to magically disappear we would only know about it in 8 minutes.
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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  7. #6  
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    If the sun 'magically' dissappeared in the blink of an eye then due to the speed of light the closest part would dissappear first. The sun would appear to recede as a slice through it's mass [which would take about 4 seconds to complete] - at the halfway stage the interior at some 16 million degrees would be exposed in all it's glory, bye bye anybody on that side of the earth... just thought I'd chuck that in.
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  8. #7  
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    i dont think like that.
    i think it will have immediate effect and i think thats what is in GR.
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  9. #8  
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    well the sun is some 860000 miles across so light from it's surface takes varies in the time it takes to get here, think about it a bit deeper...
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    i have thought about it.
    light and gravity is different. light is dependent on time, but gravity is different and it is independent of time and in will have immediate effect.
    isnt it?
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  11. #10  
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    NO, as they say up there it takes time before you feel the effecet of gravity
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  12. #11  
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    how did they know it?
    is there any proven theory like that.
    gravity is not dependent of time.
    it travels much faster than light. in fact with infinite speed.
    think
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    Quote Originally Posted by basim
    how did they know it?
    is there any proven theory like that.
    gravity is not dependent of time.
    it travels much faster than light. in fact with infinite speed.
    think
    Gravity travels at light speed, look up the experiments done in 2003, around November if I remember correctly, it's all been sewn up now.
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    how did they know it?
    is there any proven theory like that.
    gravity is not dependent of time.
    it travels much faster than light. in fact with infinite speed.
    think
    where is your proof of that

    we got proof it travels at the speed of light using gravity of jupiter wich gave the exact same speed wich once again confirms einstein was correct. also it cant travel faster than light cause of special relativity.

    Think man THINK
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  15. #14  
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    than can you tell me what is the relationship between the space and motion of light.
    is there any effect on the space, i mean curvature or anything, with a particle of light?
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by basim
    than can you tell me what is the relationship between the space and motion of light.
    is there any effect on the space, i mean curvature or anything, with a particle of light?
    Light seems to have no effect whatsoever on free space as far as I know.
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  17. #16  
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    if you mean if it bends spacetime then the answer is yes it do bend but as we know the energy is so increaidbly small and the mass it represent even less
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  18. #17  
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    Didn't I read somewhere it's effect would be less than a planck and therefore it does not?
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Didn't I read somewhere it's effect would be less than a planck and therefore it does not?
    if thats the case then you are correct
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  20. #19 Re: ElectroMagnetic Gravity 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike NS
    Secondly, they both extend to infinity.
    Since when did electromagnetism extend to infinity?
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  21. #20  
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    since allways megabrain. Everybody knows that.

    Its just, like gravity, extremly weak at large distances
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  22. #21  
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    Let's be clear about this, Electromagnetic radiation may, in free space travel indefinitly, - no problem, but stand to the side of it passing by and you cannot detect it, it has no presence or field where you are, therefore it does NOT extend to infinity, it doe not occupy enough dimensions....

    Electromagnetic fields cannot extend to infinity, since the field travels at the speed of light, it has not had the time to get to infinity. No field in infinitely old. Electromagnetic fields are easily curtailed (farady cage for example) - once inside such a cage the field is bounded - 100% - no exceptions. And electromagnetism is the same. It will weaken to a point where field gradient is less than planck permits and will cease.

    If theory says it extends to infinity, then I'm afraid on this one point I am not convinced. theory does NOT agree with observation in this case.
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  23. #22  
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    with extension to infinite they mean it can effect things at any distance when the field passes there. Not that it acts on the spot.

    What do you mean not agree with observations?
    it fits like a glove and gravity shows it via galaxies and bigger constructions of it.
    it reaches at infinite distance, with infinite time.

    but as you say that when it goes below planck stuff it wont do any effect but we dont know that for sure
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  24. #23  
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    I am not talking about gravity, I am talking about electromagnetics, down here on earth, I can create an electromagnetic field which extends no more than a few centimetres, or however far I desire it. I can curtail it direct it, and with thought (and a little help from Maxwell's field equations)probably even make it barbie doll shaped, but I cannot make it extend to infinity. To do that would require infinite energy. Observation suggests that it follows an inverse square law yet much of our maths breaks down at the very small or very large, indeed there is a good chance it all does -

    There is no reason or logic to sugget that any inverse square law extends to infinity. Don't just spout what you read, think about it!
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    yes i do, but you seem to not do it. the field do extend further than that. Its just to weak for you or most things to notice at further distances.

    its like saying "hey i am 2 million lightyears from the milkyway so its gravity wont effect me" thats not true it is effected there and both of them behave in the same way with this, except gravity is allways attraction, EM is repulsive aswell and that EM can be isolated from more or less.

    mega divide 1 with 2 as many times as you please you wont reach 0
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    There are no actual infinities in nature. Infinity is in truth an abstract mathematical concept. So Megabrain is right. However there's no real boundary to an open EM field, so I think Zelos is kind of right too, so maybe you're splitting hairs here guys.

    This all gets interesting when you try to think about an electron. We tend to think of some kind of little charged nugget, but there's no actual surface. Trying to pin it down is like trying to nail down a ripple on my GRAVITY EXPLAINED rubber sheet.
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    farsight, what is the density of a singularity with the mass of 1kg?
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    mega divide 1 with 2 as many times as you please you wont reach 0
    If I do this with any of the four dimensions my universe is made of (length time) - I do get zero, or 1 planck. - It's irrlevant anyway, it may mathematically extend to infinity but nothing can, nothing is infinite!

    And as I said the more we look the more things we decide are quanta, that is definite values, - even PI - which may be theoretically infinite cannot break the laws of quantum measurement!.

    There is/was some talk that gravity may actually not extend to infinity, although I would not attempt to 'do the maths' it may be possible that below a certian planck level, it just dissappears!

    So as far as I am concerned, until it is proven absolute, an electromagnetic field may tend towards infinity (mathematically) - in reality it probably does not, and practically it certainly does not.
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    f I do this with any of the four dimensions my universe is made of (length time) - I do get zero, or 1 planck. - It's irrlevant anyway, it may mathematically extend to infinity but nothing can, nothing is infinite!
    this ia gree with once it reaches < 1P then its 0 but thats a enourmusly large distance before that happens

    So as far as I am concerned, until it is proven absolute, an electromagnetic field may tend towards infinity (mathematically) - in reality it probably does not, and practically it certainly does not.
    mega a question, how far can we humans see with telescopes and everything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    farsight, what is the density of a singularity with the mass of 1kg?
    Not defined. There are no singularities, just as there are no infinities. Time dilation is total at the event horizon, so the "stellar collapse" is still happening as we speak and no singularities actually exist.
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    farsight, what is the density of a singularity with the mass of 1kg?
    Not defined. There are no singularities, just as there are no infinities. Time dilation is total at the event horizon, so the "stellar collapse" is still happening as we speak and no singularities actually exist.
    and the proof is where?
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  32. #31  
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    Er, if time 'stops' at the singularity, and once upon a time all the matter in the universe was in a singularity, how did time 'start' ?? - seems a logical question to me, I always thought that time ran 'slower in a black hole but not actually stopped...

    And if time does stop at the event horizon then how can 'hawking radiation' be true?
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    mega it stops at event horizon and inside the time goes backward but never further than to the point where it was created

    And if time does stop at the event horizon then how can 'hawking radiation' be true?
    this is where something from nothing comes into the picture
    particles are created everywhere everytime. but close to a blackhole one of the partners, they are allways 2, gets sucked in and the other escapes, by this some of the energy inside the blackhole is escaping as radiation. Since in the long run energy must remain the same the one bieng sucked in results in less energy in the blackhole
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  34. #33  
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    I'll ignore that last reply, it bears absolutely no resemblence to anything I have read anywhere, I am not questioning the dynamics of black holes, as far as I am concerned the other 'side' of the EH, is not part of my universe (ie where my laws work).

    My preferred understanding of the event horizon is that it is like standing beside a transparant wall, the other side is another person, I see this wall forms a sphere around him. He see the wall forms a sphere around me.

    There is no other viewpoint, you can be either side of the wall, you will always see the other person is 'in the sphere'. - I just wish he could hold up a mirror... I wonder what I would then see...
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  35. #34  
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    I'll ignore that last reply, it bears absolutely no resemblence to anything I have read anywhere,
    read more then
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    I'll ignore that last reply, it bears absolutely no resemblence to anything I have read anywhere,
    read more then
    I will, but it will be from scientitsts, not newspapers or star trek movies..... :wink:
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    I get hacked off when my carefully thought-out essays get dismissed by somebody who spouts nonsense like time goes backwards.
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    I'll ignore that last reply, it bears absolutely no resemblence to anything I have read anywhere,
    read more then
    I will, but it will be from scientitsts, not newspapers or star trek movies..... :wink:
    good idea then we are speaking on the same wavelenght my friend.
    Star trek is fun but only sci-fi

    and mega i never talk about this stuff without having read it in serius books, or without saying its uncertain
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  39. #38  
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    I think, yes star trek is si fi, but nonetheless true si fi. As Da Vinci in certain belts was si fi.

    Some of the communications Capt. Kirk was using are real today. So was the design of
    space ships in wide arrays. In star trek was often lotta more information to truly to transfer
    to reality one day as was in much of officially labeled 'scientific work'.
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