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Thread: Mass, energy and gravity.

  1. #1 Mass, energy and gravity. 
    Forum Professor leohopkins's Avatar
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    We all know that in order to create a particle of mass, what you need is to pack a large amount of energy into a small amount of space.

    My question is simple...Could quantum gravity be the force behind the particle creation ?


    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  3. #2  
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    no, its einsteins e=mc² that is the cause of it


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  4. #3 Re: Mass, energy and gravity. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    We all know that in order to create a particle of mass, what you need is to pack a large amount of energy into a small amount of space.

    My question is simple...Could quantum gravity be the force behind the particle creation ?
    can you give me an example of creation of any mass.
    Since mass can neither be created or destroyed
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    no, its einsteins e=mc² that is the cause of it
    Of what? Particle creation? Quantum gravity, whatever that is? You would do better to explain yourself more fully, rather that issuing dogmatic statements like that. Some of us, and I include myself, understand very little about physics.
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  6. #5 Re: Mass, energy and gravity. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    can you give me an example of creation of any mass.
    Since mass can neither be created or destroyed
    If you slam to particles into each other fast enough, some of the kinetic energy will be converted into new particles. I believe that's how they make anti-matter.
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  7. #6 Re: Mass, energy and gravity. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    We all know that in order to create a particle of mass, what you need is to pack a large amount of energy into a small amount of space.

    My question is simple...Could quantum gravity be the force behind the particle creation ?
    can you give me an example of creation of any mass.
    Since mass can neither be created or destroyed
    particle accelerators where they smash aprticles toghater wich in turn creates even more particles with MASS

    Of what? Particle creation? Quantum gravity, whatever that is? You would do better to explain yourself more fully, rather that issuing dogmatic statements like that. Some of us, and I include myself, understand very little about physics.
    e=mc² cause particle creation when large amount of eneergy exists in a small part of space, quantum gravity is the theory of gravity that can explain gravity on a quantum level. this one has yet to be discovered
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    no, its einsteins e=mc² that is the cause of it
    Zelos, a simple mathematical formula does not "cause" particle creation from energy, e=mc^2 is simply our way of describing it. quantum gravity taking hold of energy in a confined space and collapsing its wave into a particle would not violate E=mc^2.

    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    We all know that in order to create a particle of mass, what you need is to pack a large amount of energy into a small amount of space.

    My question is simple...Could quantum gravity be the force behind the particle creation ?
    can you give me an example of creation of any mass.
    Since mass can neither be created or destroyed
    I would suggest reading the following website thouroughly: www.particleadventure.org

    The strong force gets stronger the more distance the quarks are from each other so if a quark is taken so far away from from its partner quarks the strong force becomes so strong that it creates other quarks (particles of mass and part charge) simply from its energy.

    My point is, we all know that energy and mass are one and the same pretty much and that the more mass you have, the stronger the gravitational pull so......A large amount of energy packed into a small enough space would, I propose have enough energy / gravity for its wave function to collapse on itself and create a particle.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    So does it not disprove 'law of conservation of mass."
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    Quote Originally Posted by anand_kapadia
    So does it not disprove 'law of conservation of mass."
    Actually it is the law of the conservation of energy and mass, so no, the energy is merely converted to mass. My point is, Large amount of energy in small amount of space. More energy = more mass = quantum gravitational pull to "snap" the wave of energy and collapse on itself to form a particle. ?
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    Actually, the strong and weak nuclear forces is what you're looking at there. The strong force has the messenger particle called the "gluon" which "glues" quarks together. When the right amount of energy is incident on something like a proton, this gluon is released and converted into radiation. The reverse is what happens when you make a proton out of energy. This can be generalized for all particles of matter.
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  12. #11 Yes...... 
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    Thanks, I know that, but still does not answer my question.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  13. #12 Re: Yes...... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Thanks, I know that, but still does not answer my question.
    youre biggest problem with it is that quantum gravity has yet to be discovered so how can we know what it causes?

    i still say its e=mc² that is the cause. the fact that matter and energy are the same makes it possible to change between each other, under certain conditions of course.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  14. #13 Re: Mass, energy and gravity. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    We all know that in order to create a particle of mass, what you need is to pack a large amount of energy into a small amount of space. My question is simple...Could quantum gravity be the force behind the particle creation ?
    I'd say no. Particle creation is nothing special, all you need is a gamma-wave photon of just over 1022keV and you can easily make an electron and a positron. Look up pair production - in essence the photon is "broken" over an atomic nucleus, and becomes looped to create inertia out of the energy/momentum. There are other ways to create mass, and while we could explore the fine detail of the underlying processes, saying "quantum gravity is the force behind particle creation" sounds like a no-explanation explanation.
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  15. #14  
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    Im gonna stick to my guns on this one and bet my bottom dollar that quantum gravity plays a vital role in particle creation.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    Then I wager that you'll lose your shirt Leo.

    I'll be posting up a GRAVITY EXPLAINED essay in a few days. Compare your own thoughts with what I say therein.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Im gonna stick to my guns on this one and bet my bottom dollar that quantum gravity plays a vital role in particle creation.
    youre on

    Then I wager that you'll lose your shirt Leo.

    I'll be posting up a GRAVITY EXPLAINED essay in a few days. Compare your own thoughts with what I say therein.
    please dont let it be another crackpot idea totally unsupported by math, observations and experiments
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    Then I wager that you'll lose your shirt Leo.

    I'll be posting up a GRAVITY EXPLAINED essay in a few days. Compare your own thoughts with what I say therein.
    Great, I will look forward to it, and to giving my opinion.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    Thanks Leo. I see Zealot has formed his already. Sigh. So much for science huh?
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  20. #19  
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    The problem with your idea Leo is that no one knows what "quantum gravity" is - its like talking about M-theory etc.
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by river_rat
    The problem with your idea Leo is that no one knows what "quantum gravity" is - its like talking about M-theory etc.
    I dont understand what you mean when you say that nobody knows what "quantum gravity" is.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Quote Originally Posted by river_rat
    The problem with your idea Leo is that no one knows what "quantum gravity" is - its like talking about M-theory etc.
    I dont understand what you mean when you say that nobody knows what "quantum gravity" is.
    Well quantum gravity is the field of physics that tries to reconcile quantum mechanics with general relativity. Now as this has not been done nobody knows what the "quantum gravity" theory is and ultimately what it would imply about the microscopic world. Its the name for something we are searching for, not the name of something we have.
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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  23. #22  
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    stop thinking that the energy and mass are two difference thing.
    when energy becomes directly measurable with apparatuses like mass balance it becomes mass. till now we dont have the answer for the question why it is happening like that.
    i am still waiting for a chance. :wink:
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    Thanks Leo. I see Zealot has formed his already. Sigh. So much for science huh?
    i guess youre refering to me with a really awefull spelling
    my opinion isnt yet formed but its not top much to ask for for people to think and make sure their "theories", wich they mostly are not good enough to be even called, support observations
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  25. #24 Re: Mass, energy and gravity. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    We all know that in order to create a particle of mass, what you need is to pack a large amount of energy into a small amount of space. My question is simple...Could quantum gravity be the force behind the particle creation ?
    I'd say no. Particle creation is nothing special, all you need is a gamma-wave photon of just over 1022keV and you can easily make an electron and a positron. Look up pair production - in essence the photon is "broken" over an atomic nucleus, and becomes looped to create inertia out of the energy/momentum. There are other ways to create mass, and while we could explore the fine detail of the underlying processes, saying "quantum gravity is the force behind particle creation" sounds like a no-explanation explanation.
    How can you be so sure that there are no other ways of creating mass? Mankind is yet to discover such wonders that the mind boggles.
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