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Thread: Blackholes exploding?

  1. #1 Blackholes exploding? 
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    So suppose a blackhole constantly fused atoms together (which probably does happen) this constant fusion would create energy, which would be trapped in the balckhole because of gravity. Wouldn't this build up of energy eventually create blast the blackhole apart, or would the output of energy be equilavent to the input of mass, therefore canceling each other out. Please do correct me if I make a mistake in physics, but please don't correct my grammer.


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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    At a guess.


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    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    Then suppose after Heat Death has mostly run its course, the Black Hole finally radiates away to nothing. Would the final instant of the black hole's life be an explosive one if it has built up enough energy in this fashion? Or would Hawking Radiation have done its job gradually enough to avoid this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    ?Nothing is entering the blackhole therefore nothing is passing the event horizon at this time, to explain it better is it possible the stuff already inside the blackhole to explode the blackhole?
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    ?Nothing is entering the blackhole therefore nothing is passing the event horizon at this time, to explain it better is it possible the stuff already inside the blackhole to explode the blackhole?
    But to explode, stuff inside the event horizon would have to pass to the outside, and this is what would take an infinite amount of energy. In addition not all fusion produces energy, as heavier and heavy nuclei are formed you get a net loss of energy.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    ?Nothing is entering the blackhole therefore nothing is passing the event horizon at this time, to explain it better is it possible the stuff already inside the blackhole to explode the blackhole?
    Let me say it again. For anything to be blown out of a BH, it has to pass the event horizon, where the escape velocity is c.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    ?Nothing is entering the blackhole therefore nothing is passing the event horizon at this time, to explain it better is it possible the stuff already inside the blackhole to explode the blackhole?
    Let me say it again. For anything to be blown out of a BH, it has to pass the event horizon, where the escape velocity is c.
    Wait, I thought the escape velocity was any amount above c? As far as I understand it, even light is trapped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    ?Nothing is entering the blackhole therefore nothing is passing the event horizon at this time, to explain it better is it possible the stuff already inside the blackhole to explode the blackhole?
    Let me say it again. For anything to be blown out of a BH, it has to pass the event horizon, where the escape velocity is c.
    Wait, I thought the escape velocity was any amount above c? As far as I understand it, even light is trapped.
    It's c at the eh, greater than c inside the eh.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You'd still have to get beyond the event horizon, which requires infinite energy.
    ?Nothing is entering the blackhole therefore nothing is passing the event horizon at this time, to explain it better is it possible the stuff already inside the blackhole to explode the blackhole?
    Let me say it again. For anything to be blown out of a BH, it has to pass the event horizon, where the escape velocity is c.
    Wait, I thought the escape velocity was any amount above c? As far as I understand it, even light is trapped.
    It's c at the eh, greater than c inside the eh.
    Ah, makes sense. Otherwise virtual particles pairs couldn't split and we wouldn't have Hawking Radiation, correct?

    Also, and clearly this is impossible, inside the eh, would any amount greater than C be enough to break free? Even a minute amount? Or would it vary? Or is there no way to calculate that since it is impossible?
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    So suppose a blackhole constantly fused atoms together (which probably does happen)

    Why would you think that? There is no reason to believe that atoms exist inside the EH, or that there is an "inside", or that matter could transition to the "inside" in a given finite time period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G O R T View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    So suppose a blackhole constantly fused atoms together (which probably does happen)

    Why would you think that? There is no reason to believe that atoms exist inside the EH, or that there is an "inside", or that matter could transition to the "inside" in a given finite time period.
    Actually black hole models do have interior horizons which could ''harbor entire universes.'' There are four inner horizons and only two of them have space and time running normally.
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    Ok.....this is what your saying(correct me if im wrong) you think it requires infinite amounts of energy to exit a blackhole, but I say this cant be true. Anything can be broken with enough energy, as long as it has mass then enough energy could break it down, even if it has the mass of a blackhole. It is likely that there isn't enough energy inside the blackhole to explode it, but if we added energy(probably in the form of kinetic) then it could explode. And if what your saying is true then why does a blackhole spit out gamma ray bursts(once again please do correct me) when it takes in to much matter at once. The only way I think this could happen if the entering mass created enough energy to create the bursts.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Ok.....this is what your saying(correct me if im wrong) you think it requires infinite amounts of energy to exit a blackhole, but I say this cant be true.
    Why?

    And if what your saying is true then why does a blackhole spit out gamma ray bursts(once again please do correct me) when it takes in to much matter at once.
    They don't.
    Most observed GRBs are believed to consist of a narrow beam of intense radiation released during a supernova or hypernova as a rapidly rotating, high-mass star collapses to form a neutron star, quark star, or black hole.
    "As" i.e. before the BH is formed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Ok.....this is what your saying(correct me if im wrong) you think it requires infinite amounts of energy to exit a blackhole, but I say this cant be true.
    Why?
    It is fairly obvious, huge amounts of energy can do many things, including break the speed of lights, because this happened at the beginning of the universe, make new matter, and break things apart, even if it is insanely packed together.

    And if what your saying is true then why does a blackhole spit out gamma ray bursts(once again please do correct me) when it takes in to much matter at once.
    They don't.
    Most observed GRBs are believed to consist of a narrow beam of intense radiation released during a supernova or hypernova as a rapidly rotating, high-mass star collapses to form a neutron star, quark star, or black hole.
    "As" i.e. before the BH is formed.
    Thanks for the correction, but to keep this going how does a blackhole decay if nothing can leave it?
    What im trying to say is that, even if it requires all energy in the universe a blackhole can explode...Just listen to Phineas and Ferb~" The only thing impossible is impossibility"
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    but I say this cant be true. Anything can be broken with enough energy, as long as it has mass then enough energy could break it down, even if it has the mass of a blackhole
    You're wrong. No matter how much energy you supply, you will never reach the speed of light.

    but to keep this going how does a blackhole decay if nothing can leave it?
    By Hawking radiation.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    why does a blackhole spit out gamma ray bursts
    It doesn't. Please stop posting crackpot ideas. This is a science forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    Ok.....this is what your saying(correct me if im wrong) you think it requires infinite amounts of energy to exit a blackhole, but I say this cant be true.
    Why?
    It is fairly obvious, huge amounts of energy can do many things, including break the speed of lights, because this happened at the beginning of the universe, make new matter, and break things apart, even if it is insanely packed together.

    And if what your saying is true then why does a blackhole spit out gamma ray bursts(once again please do correct me) when it takes in to much matter at once.
    They don't.
    Most observed GRBs are believed to consist of a narrow beam of intense radiation released during a supernova or hypernova as a rapidly rotating, high-mass star collapses to form a neutron star, quark star, or black hole.
    "As" i.e. before the BH is formed.
    Thanks for the correction, but to keep this going how does a blackhole decay if nothing can leave it?
    What im trying to say is that, even if it requires all energy in the universe a blackhole can explode...Just listen to Phineas and Ferb~" The only thing impossible is impossibility"
    Black holes shrink less because particles inside leave, and more because anti-particles outside it enter. Hawking radiation is a bit of a wonky concept but it is solid nonetheless.
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  20. #19  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    So suppose a blackhole constantly fused atoms together (which probably does happen) this constant fusion would create energy, which would be trapped in the balckhole because of gravity. Wouldn't this build up of energy eventually create blast the blackhole apart, or would the output of energy be equilavent to the input of mass, therefore canceling each other out.
    The last part is correct. Mass and energy are equivalent. No extra energy is created. It would make no difference to the black hole.

    Also, the reason nothing can escape from a black hole is not because of the escape velocity. That is a "classical" explanation. The real reason is that space-time is so curved that, within the event horizon, there are no paths which do not lead to the center of the black hole. More than that, time and space are swapped so the the center is no longer ahead of you, but in your future. So, no, nothing can escape from inside a black hole. (*)

    (*) Based on our current best theories. This may change with a future quantum theory of gravity. Shares may go up as well as down. Your mileage may vary. Etc.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by frumpydolphin View Post
    So suppose a blackhole constantly fused atoms together (which probably does happen) this constant fusion would create energy, which would be trapped in the balckhole because of gravity. Wouldn't this build up of energy eventually create blast the blackhole apart, or would the output of energy be equilavent to the input of mass, therefore canceling each other out.
    The last part is correct. Mass and energy are equivalent. No extra energy is created. It would make no difference to the black hole.

    Also, the reason nothing can escape from a black hole is not because of the escape velocity. That is a "classical" explanation. The real reason is that space-time is so curved that, within the event horizon, there are no paths which do not lead to the center of the black hole. More than that, time and space are swapped so the the center is no longer ahead of you, but in your future. So, no, nothing can escape from inside a black hole. (*)

    (*) Based on our current best theories. This may change with a future quantum theory of gravity. Shares may go up as well as down. Your mileage may vary. Etc.
    Thanks the explanation about the how curved space time is cleared up a lot.
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