Notices
Results 1 to 26 of 26
Like Tree8Likes
  • 1 Post By tk421
  • 1 Post By Daecon
  • 2 Post By tk421
  • 2 Post By KALSTER
  • 1 Post By MagiMaster
  • 1 Post By tk421

Thread: Huge Amounts of Energy

  1. #1 Huge Amounts of Energy 
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever. If we ever needed more energy we would just find another black hole.

    Does this sound crazy?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    2,222
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever.
    The Sun generates a lot more power, is a lot closer, and is a lot safer than a black hole. It also produces more power than we could ever use.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever.
    The Sun generates a lot more power, is a lot closer, and is a lot safer than a black hole. It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?

    Thank you for quick reply
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,845
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever.
    The Sun generates a lot more power, is a lot closer, and is a lot safer than a black hole. It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?

    Thank you for quick reply
    Our sun is the type to become a red giant. In about a billion years or so, the earth's oceans will have evaporated away. Further down the road, the sun will be so large that the earth's present orbit will lie inside of it. The future orbit of the earth may lie somewhat outside, but it won't matter. The earth will be toast.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever.
    The Sun generates a lot more power, is a lot closer, and is a lot safer than a black hole. It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?

    Thank you for quick reply
    Our sun is the type to become a red giant. In about a billion years or so, the earth's oceans will have evaporated away. Further down the road, the sun will be so large that the earth's present orbit will lie inside of it. The future orbit of the earth may lie somewhat outside, but it won't matter. The earth will be toast.
    Oh I see thank you for the information, so wait the sun is increasing in size? Or mass I am not sure, I watched a video that said the sun shrinks until it becomes a white dwarf or something.

    Thank you for the help and explanation, very much appreciated!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,845
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever.
    The Sun generates a lot more power, is a lot closer, and is a lot safer than a black hole. It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?

    Thank you for quick reply
    Our sun is the type to become a red giant. In about a billion years or so, the earth's oceans will have evaporated away. Further down the road, the sun will be so large that the earth's present orbit will lie inside of it. The future orbit of the earth may lie somewhat outside, but it won't matter. The earth will be toast.
    Oh I see thank you for the information, so wait the sun is increasing in size? Or mass I am not sure, I watched a video that said the sun shrinks until it becomes a white dwarf or something.

    Thank you for the help and explanation, very much appreciated!
    Our sun is in its middle age, where it happily continues to burn core hydrogen ("burn" here being used in its nuclear sense). As hydrogen in its core gets used up, remaining hydrogen in the outer parts of the sun starts to be consumed. Around that time (about 4-6 billion years from now), our sun becomes a red giant. It doesn't gain mass to become so (in fact, it loses mass), it just becomes less dense. It lopes along that way until all the shell hydrogen is consumed (that takes maybe another billion years or so), and the sun starts burning core helium. Things fall apart rather quickly after that. Within a 100 million years or thereabouts, the helium will be gone, and there will be little left to burn. Our sun will eventually shrink to a white dwarf once most of the fuel is exhausted. But the earth will have been cooked long before then, when the sun entered its red giant phase.
    ScienceNoob likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    2,222
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?
    At that point (in, say, five billion years) it would be simpler, cheaper and faster to move the Sun out of the way and replace it with a new star than to go get a black hole. Or just move the Earth to the new star. Much less mass to move.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?
    I doubt if humans will still exist that far in the future.
    I think we will either have gone extinct or evolved into something else by then.

    Maybe some of us will have become space aliens by then.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,288
    Perhaps Humanity could relocate to Titan when the Sun becomes a Red Giant, or whichever one of Jupiter's moons it is.
    ScienceNoob likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?
    I doubt if humans will still exist that far in the future.
    I think we will either have gone extinct or evolved into something else by then.

    Maybe some of us will have become space aliens by then.
    Interesting comment, to be honest I never thought about that. Billions of years is alot of time, do you think there is a possibility Humans will actually "evolve" by that time. What do you think the future of our species is or the "evolved species" I should say.

    Thank you for the awesome replies!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever.
    The Sun generates a lot more power, is a lot closer, and is a lot safer than a black hole. It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?

    Thank you for quick reply
    Our sun is the type to become a red giant. In about a billion years or so, the earth's oceans will have evaporated away. Further down the road, the sun will be so large that the earth's present orbit will lie inside of it. The future orbit of the earth may lie somewhat outside, but it won't matter. The earth will be toast.
    Oh I see thank you for the information, so wait the sun is increasing in size? Or mass I am not sure, I watched a video that said the sun shrinks until it becomes a white dwarf or something.

    Thank you for the help and explanation, very much appreciated!
    Our sun is in its middle age, where it happily continues to burn core hydrogen ("burn" here being used in its nuclear sense). As hydrogen in its core gets used up, remaining hydrogen in the outer parts of the sun starts to be consumed. Around that time (about 4-6 billion years from now), our sun becomes a red giant. It doesn't gain mass to become so (in fact, it loses mass), it just becomes less dense. It lopes along that way until all the shell hydrogen is consumed (that takes maybe another billion years or so), and the sun starts burning core helium. Things fall apart rather quickly after that. Within a 100 million years or thereabouts, the helium will be gone, and there will be little left to burn. Our sun will eventually shrink to a white dwarf once most of the fuel is exhausted. But the earth will have been cooked long before then, when the sun entered its red giant phase.
    Where do you think we will have to move to by then?

    Is there a plan?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever.
    The Sun generates a lot more power, is a lot closer, and is a lot safer than a black hole. It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    What about in the future when our sun collapses sir?

    Thank you for quick reply
    Our sun is the type to become a red giant. In about a billion years or so, the earth's oceans will have evaporated away. Further down the road, the sun will be so large that the earth's present orbit will lie inside of it. The future orbit of the earth may lie somewhat outside, but it won't matter. The earth will be toast.
    Oh I see thank you for the information, so wait the sun is increasing in size? Or mass I am not sure, I watched a video that said the sun shrinks until it becomes a white dwarf or something.

    Thank you for the help and explanation, very much appreciated!
    Our sun is in its middle age, where it happily continues to burn core hydrogen ("burn" here being used in its nuclear sense). As hydrogen in its core gets used up, remaining hydrogen in the outer parts of the sun starts to be consumed. Around that time (about 4-6 billion years from now), our sun becomes a red giant. It doesn't gain mass to become so (in fact, it loses mass), it just becomes less dense. It lopes along that way until all the shell hydrogen is consumed (that takes maybe another billion years or so), and the sun starts burning core helium. Things fall apart rather quickly after that. Within a 100 million years or thereabouts, the helium will be gone, and there will be little left to burn. Our sun will eventually shrink to a white dwarf once most of the fuel is exhausted. But the earth will have been cooked long before then, when the sun entered its red giant phase.
    Also is it true the Sun is expanding in size or mass?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    In this documentary I am watching The End of the Universe: Big Crunch, Big Chill or Big Rip? - YouTube

    It stated that after the sun uses it's last hydrogen it would freeze, is this true? Or will it be burnt? I am not sure

    Thank you!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,845
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Our sun is in its middle age, where it happily continues to burn core hydrogen ("burn" here being used in its nuclear sense). As hydrogen in its core gets used up, remaining hydrogen in the outer parts of the sun starts to be consumed. Around that time (about 4-6 billion years from now), our sun becomes a red giant. It doesn't gain mass to become so (in fact, it loses mass), it just becomes less dense. It lopes along that way until all the shell hydrogen is consumed (that takes maybe another billion years or so), and the sun starts burning core helium. Things fall apart rather quickly after that. Within a 100 million years or thereabouts, the helium will be gone, and there will be little left to burn. Our sun will eventually shrink to a white dwarf once most of the fuel is exhausted. But the earth will have been cooked long before then, when the sun entered its red giant phase.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Also is it true the Sun is expanding in size or mass?
    Look about 6 lines above yours.
    dan hunter and ScienceNoob like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    I'm not sure about that. Indeed I am confident you are incorrect. You are assuming, are you not, we never move into interstellar space.
    Last edited by KALSTER; March 20th, 2014 at 10:58 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    So considering Mass is a form of energy (if that's not true please correct me I am not sure). Black Holes seem to be not very beneficial and dangerous to my knowledge, although if in the future we need energy. Perhaps these are the key to that? If we can find out how to harness the energy within a black hole we could power ourselves forever. If we ever needed more energy we would just find another black hole.

    Does this sound crazy?
    Penrose process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A Universe Optimized for Starships?

    Verdict: possibly possible, but not now.
    Last edited by KALSTER; March 20th, 2014 at 09:19 AM.
    dan hunter and ScienceNoob like this.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    I'm not sure about that. Indeed I am confident you are incorrect. You are assuming, are you not, we never move into interstellar space.
    I never made that statement sir, I was in support of using black holes for energy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Black holes make sense, but I think I have a way to "bunk" them.

    If it's true that you can't compress liquids what would happen if large amounts of liquid got sucked into the black hole?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Our sun is in its middle age, where it happily continues to burn core hydrogen ("burn" here being used in its nuclear sense). As hydrogen in its core gets used up, remaining hydrogen in the outer parts of the sun starts to be consumed. Around that time (about 4-6 billion years from now), our sun becomes a red giant. It doesn't gain mass to become so (in fact, it loses mass), it just becomes less dense. It lopes along that way until all the shell hydrogen is consumed (that takes maybe another billion years or so), and the sun starts burning core helium. Things fall apart rather quickly after that. Within a 100 million years or thereabouts, the helium will be gone, and there will be little left to burn. Our sun will eventually shrink to a white dwarf once most of the fuel is exhausted. But the earth will have been cooked long before then, when the sun entered its red giant phase.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Also is it true the Sun is expanding in size or mass?
    Look about 6 lines above yours.
    Yeah I saw that, I just wasn't sure because another member on here said earth would be inside of the sun by then.


    Thanks for clarification!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    I'm not sure about that. Indeed I am confident you are incorrect. You are assuming, are you not, we never move into interstellar space.
    I never made that statement sir, I was in support of using black holes for energy
    It was just an editing error. I'll fix his post for him. Billvon said it and he meant to reply to him.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    It also produces more power than we could ever use.
    I'm not sure about that. Indeed I am confident you are incorrect. You are assuming, are you not, we never move into interstellar space.
    I never made that statement sir, I was in support of using black holes for energy
    It was just an editing error. I'l fix his post for him. Billvon said it and he meant to reply to him.
    I see, sorry thank you for the clarification
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope MagiMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,440
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Black holes make sense, but I think I have a way to "bunk" them.

    If it's true that you can't compress liquids what would happen if large amounts of liquid got sucked into the black hole?
    Liquids are compressible, just not measurably so in everyday uses.
    ScienceNoob likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,845
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tk421

    Look about 6 lines above yours.
    Yeah I saw that, I just wasn't sure because another member on here said earth would be inside of the sun by then.


    Thanks for clarification!
    By one calculation the earth would be somewhat inside the sun, and by another, not quite. But the mass of the earth is nothing, compared to the sun. The loss of mass of the sun is the general trend that accompanies the bloating as it becomes a red giant. It gets bigger as it becomes less massive. Size does not equal mass.
    ScienceNoob likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    Black holes make sense, but I think I have a way to "bunk" them.

    If it's true that you can't compress liquids what would happen if large amounts of liquid got sucked into the black hole?
    Liquids are compressible, just not measurably so in everyday uses.
    What is the smallest "thing" to our current knowledge? It just doesn't seem to make sense that something be can indefinitely small.

    There has got to be some point where it can't compress right?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope MagiMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,440
    Current knowledge says no: Pauli exclusion principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. We're pretty sure that's not the final answer though.

    Besides that, the smallest thing would currently be one of the various point-like particles which appear to have no internal structure or volume (and thus point-like).
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,965
    Quote Originally Posted by ScienceNoob View Post
    What is the smallest "thing" to our current knowledge? It just doesn't seem to make sense that something be can indefinitely small.
    It may not make sense (and I don't think anyone thinks it represents reality) but we don't currently have a theory that explains why it can't happen, nor what might actually happen. Until we do, that is the best we can say.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 12th, 2013, 03:16 AM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: March 18th, 2013, 07:51 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 18th, 2012, 04:41 AM
  4. 4 HUGE Galaxies Collide!!
    By Dr. Spitzer in forum Astronomy & Cosmology
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 6th, 2007, 03:18 PM
  5. Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 11th, 2006, 07:03 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •