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Thread: X-rays

  1. #1 X-rays 
    Forum Freshman dheeraj's Avatar
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    hi evrybody

    i've studied in my 9th standard that x rays are produced when cathode rays(electrons) hit solid targets such as molybdenum,titanium,etc..
    now we'll observe the physics going out there
    so what's happening there?
    an electron is coming with some speed say v and hitting the valence electron present in the valence shell or orbit of the molybdenum atom
    and eventually a x ray is emitted whose speed is c(speed of light)
    so my doubt here is the electron transition is taking place above there and an x ray is produced
    so in the large hadron collider if two electrons are made to hit at almost at 99.99% of the speed of light even then will an x ray is produced?
    if so,what are the other particles that emit when they(electrons) collide?

    thanks!!!


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  3. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    so my doubt here is the electron transition is taking place above there and an x ray is produced
    Why "doubt"? Ever had an X-ray in the hospital?


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  4. #3  
    KJW
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    The X-rays are produced by two different mechanisms. One mechanism is by bremsstrahlung, which is the radiation produced by decelerating the charged electrons, and this produces a continuous spectrum. The other mechanism is by the electron colliding with and ejecting an electron from an inner orbital. The resulting excited state then undergoes electronic transitions to the ground state, producing radiation of definite frequencies that are specific to the type of target.
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    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman dheeraj's Avatar
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    other mechanism is by the electron colliding with?
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  6. #5  
    KJW
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    other mechanism is by the electron colliding with?
    I suspect that the reason you asked this question is because the forum software is not fully displaying my post. That happens to me occasionally. If you click on the "QUOTE" button for my post, you may see the full post.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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  7. #6  
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    No. He wrote you both mechanisms that work in x-ray machines.
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  8. #7  
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    first go read up on how xrays are generated, then come back with your questions
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    hi everybody

    i've studied in my 9th standard that x rays are produced when cathode rays(electrons) hit solid targets such as molybdenum,titanium,etc..
    now we'll observe the physics going out there
    so what's happening there?
    an electron is coming with some speed say v and hitting the valence electron present in the valence shell or orbit of the molybdenum atom
    and eventually a x ray is emitted whose speed is c(speed of light)
    so my doubt here is the electron transition is taking place above there and an x ray is produced
    so in the large hadron collider if two electrons are made to hit at almost at 99.99% of the speed of light even then will an x ray is produced?
    if so,what are the other particles that emit when they(electrons) collide?

    thanks!!!
    I've only ever heard of the large hadron collider being used in proton to proton collisions. Can you provide some documentation that shows it being used for electron collisions?
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  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman dheeraj's Avatar
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    well hmm since you've said to me to go read up on how x rays are generated.... you've got to take a look at this and from your comment you seem so sure that you do know all the ways in which a x ray can be produced but i am wondering here why you didn't knew this... take a look at the folloing link

    http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16...ays/index.html
    Last edited by dheeraj; February 2nd, 2014 at 01:36 AM.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman dheeraj's Avatar
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    if proton-proton collisions are possible why can't electron-electron collisions are possible?
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  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman dheeraj's Avatar
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    i've checked your full quote and even there your sentence was this " The other mechanism is by the electron colliding with" that's all
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    i've checked your full quote and even there your sentence was this " The other mechanism is by the electron colliding with" that's all
    KJW gave you a correct answer, but you apparently don't realize it. The drawing you supplied of a Coolidge-type x-ray tube depicts one of the mechanisms that KJW was talking about -- Bremsstrahlung. Electrons from the cathode are accelerated to nearly c, and then strike a high-Z target (tungsten, in the standard implementation). The electrons thus decelerate very dramatically, and correspondingly emit 'deceleration radiation" (Bremsstrahlung).

    Electron-electron collisions are certainly possible, as in KJW's answer with the "colliding with..." phrase. Anything that can excite a transition of an inner electron to a higher-energy state will cause that electron to give off light (x-rays) with a characteristic energy upon returning to its original state. Bremmstrahlung will give a continuous spectrum, in contrast to that process.
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  14. #13  
    KJW
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    i've checked your full quote and even there your sentence was this " The other mechanism is by the electron colliding with" that's all
    What I said was:

    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    The X-rays are produced by two different mechanisms. One mechanism is by bremsstrahlung, which is the radiation produced by decelerating the charged electrons, and this produces a continuous spectrum. The other mechanism is by the electron colliding with and ejecting an electron from an inner orbital. The resulting excited state then undergoes electronic transitions to the ground state, producing radiation of definite frequencies that are specific to the type of target.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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  15. #14  
    Forum Freshman dheeraj's Avatar
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    in the diagram i provided when an electron hits the valence electron and electron transition is taking place and that's how an x ray is produced and this is what called as Bremsstrahlung so when electron-electron collision takes place an x ray is emitted. what is emitted in the case of a proton-proton collision?

    thanks for your polite reply kjw and tk421 i get it now
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    of a proton-proton collision?
    Heavy particles, no x-ray. See here
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    in the diagram i provided when an electron hits the valence electron and electron transition is taking place and that's how an x ray is produced and this is what called as Bremsstrahlung so when electron-electron collision takes place an x ray is emitted. what is emitted in the case of a proton-proton collision?

    thanks for your polite reply kjw and tk421 i get it now
    Electron cannot hit valence electron to create X ray. Proton-proton collisions produce a number of things along with light but that mechanism isnīt used for generating x rays.
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  18. #17  
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    The link below does a very good job of explaining how X-ray machines work.

    HowStuffWorks "How X-rays Work"
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    Electron cannot hit valence electron to create X ray.
    Incident electrons certainly can -- and do -- excite inner-shell electrons. If you examine the detailed spectra of x-ray tubes, you will see characteristic lines superimposed on the Bremmstrahlung background. Those lines are generated by excited electrons returning to their ground state energies.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    Electron cannot hit valence electron to create X ray.
    Incident electrons certainly can -- and do -- excite inner-shell electrons. If you examine the detailed spectra of x-ray tubes, you will see characteristic lines superimposed on the Bremmstrahlung background. Those lines are generated by excited electrons returning to their ground state energies.
    But not valence.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    if proton-proton collisions are possible why can't electron-electron collisions are possible?
    He's not saying they are not. It is just that this is not what the Large Hadron Collider is set up to do. After all, electrons are not hadrons.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dheeraj View Post
    if proton-proton collisions are possible why can't electron-electron collisions are possible?
    He's not saying they are not. It is just that this is not what the Large Hadron Collider is set up to do. After all, electrons are not hadrons.
    When electrons are used it's usually electron to positron collisions they are talking about. However, A synchrotron is an extremely powerful source of X-rays. These are produced by highly energetic electrons moving in a large circle in the synchrotron. No collisions are taking place in the synchrotron.

    What is a synchrotron?
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