Notices
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Visualising SpaceTime Events or Processes (and distortions) with 3D monitors

  1. #1 Visualising SpaceTime Events or Processes (and distortions) with 3D monitors 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,616
    I have never heard of using 3D monitors for this purpose.Does it make the whole process a lot easier to understand?

    I have always had difficulty understanding diagrams that show the fabric of SpaceTime being distorted by a massive object.

    Would a 3D monitor allow you to view these processes like a film?

    I "understand" that "matter" is not an intrinsic part of Space Time but that it kind of swims in it and distorts it.


    If Space Time was represented (even falsely) like ether in the film I have imagined could its distortion be visualised in a way other than the gridded trampoline way it always is? Or am I just going back in time to the misperception that existed before the ether concept was ruled out in the 19th(?) century ?

    Even so are there any 3D animations of Space Time distortion events /processes available online? Unfortunately I don't have a 3D computer but perhaps it is possible to find a workaround.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Even so are there any 3D animations of Space Time distortion events /processes available online?
    Try this :




    And this one :
    http://www.adamtoons.de/physics/gravitation.swf


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,616
    thanks!
    that is plenty to be going on!

    But would I be right to think that those lines in the first, unanimated picture you showed can (also? or primarily?) be seen as the possible lines of "flight" of a particle or object which interacts with the earth and its gravitational field ?

    I mean I can see that all the lines that point directly towards the centre seem undistorted whilst all the other lines are pulled towards the centre as they "fly past" and their trajectory is at its most distorted the closer they are to the centre of the earth.

    And are all the points on the grid equally distant in terms of time?
    Last edited by geordief; December 9th, 2013 at 12:28 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    But would I be right to think that those lines in the first, unanimated picture you showed can (also? or primarily?) be seen as the possible lines of "flight" of a particle or object which interacts with the earth and its gravitational field ?
    Yes, they can be seen as the trajectories of test particles through space in the vicinity of a massive body.

    And are all the points on the grid equally distant in terms of time?
    And this is where we encounter the limits of this particular visualisation, because it does a lousy job of explaining what happens in the time direction, which is really the crucial bit. In actual fact, clocks closer to a massive body will tick more slowly compared to far away reference clocks; that is why I referenced the second link, the animation, to show how that happens and how it is related to the world lines of particles. One must use both tools together to get an idea of what really happens.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,616
    Does it not help if the simulation is performed on a 3d monitor (with proper 3d programs)?

    Could the massive body be set in "pressure sensitive" gel or aspic so as to change colour with acceleration say?

    Like I said I have no real experience of using 3d screens or programs -so I am fishing.

    Your animations have helped me though but I am still working on them (just them -not the theory!).


    From what you said regarding the unanimated picture can I take it then that those particles' speed (assuming that they are all identical in terms of initial speed ,mass , volume,shape and structure ) is not represented by the lines' length as measured between points on the grid?

    If so would it not be possible to colour code those lines to show speed or ?
    Last edited by geordief; December 10th, 2013 at 05:20 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    From what you said regarding the unanimated picture can I take it then that those particles' speed (assuming that they are all identical in terms of initial speed ,mass , volume,shape and structure ) is not represented by the lines' length as measured between points on the grid?
    No. The picture is really just a crude schematic to show how the geometry of space-time changes; it is not in any way rigorous, nor does it represent actual numbers.

    If so would it not be possible to colour code those lines to show speed or ?
    No, because "speed" is something that depends on the observer; it has no universal validity.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,616
    Sorry to seem to keep banging my head on this but what about the speed between the centre of the spherical mass and the particle .Could that be shown ? Would it be helpful? I guess that would be related to the eigentime.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Sorry to seem to keep banging my head on this but what about the speed between the centre of the spherical mass and the particle .Could that be shown ? Would it be helpful? I guess that would be related to the eigentime.
    I don't think it is useful to base a visualisation on a quantity that is observer-dependent, such as speed.
    What you can do is try to plot the degree by which a clock is dilated as compared to a reference point at infinity - which is pretty much what the animation I referenced earlier does.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,616
    Doesn't the particle experience speed as it approaches the centre of the spherical mass? I mean the distance is decreasing at a rate determined by its own clock?

    Is it because the particle is in effect becoming another (second) observer if it tries to make those measurements?

    Am I trying to overlay a second animation (or visualisation) on top of the original without realising it?

    Is my aim of showing "speed" (or acceleration?) on the trajectories unhelpful anyway ?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Doesn't the particle experience speed as it approaches the centre of the spherical mass? I mean the distance is decreasing at a rate determined by its own clock?
    Is it because the particle is in effect becoming another (second) observer if it tries to make those measurements?
    The issue is that different observers will determine different outcomes here; for example, for a far away observer the particle will first gain speed, but then will start to slow down as it falls towards the event horizon, gradually becoming dimmer in the process. From such a point of view the particle will in fact take an infinite amount of time to reach the horizon. Another observer who falls together with the particle will not agree - from his point of view the event horizon is reached in a finite, well defined amount of time, and the in-fall will continue towards the singularity.

    Who is right ? What is it you are plotting ? Do you see what I am trying to say ?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,616
    I didn't think we were talking about a singularity.

    I thought the animation specified a spherical mass less than that which produces a black hole.

    I was just considering the trajectory of a particle falling through an idealised very large sunlike object 1 light year in radius that somehow allowed massive objects to penetrate its structure without friction (that is how it is explained on the animation I think)

    I know even less about black holes than I do about interplanetary travel
    Last edited by geordief; December 13th, 2013 at 06:15 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Visualising Your Dreams
    By Cogito Ergo Sum in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: June 18th, 2013, 11:31 AM
  2. Visualising 4-dimensions
    By talanum1 in forum Mathematics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 17th, 2010, 05:40 AM
  3. The speed of light and the distortions it creates in photos
    By Always.Asking in forum Astronomy & Cosmology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: May 4th, 2009, 01:01 AM
  4. Visualising vectors in 4D and beyond!
    By talanum1 in forum Mathematics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 27th, 2008, 08:29 AM
  5. Dual Monitors LINUX redhat
    By BenTheMan in forum Computer Science
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: June 24th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •