Notices
Results 1 to 20 of 20
Like Tree2Likes
  • 2 Post By tk421

Thread: Do moving charged particles emit a magnetic field?

  1. #1 Do moving charged particles emit a magnetic field? 
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    Example.

    Electrolysis, you have sodium and clhoride ions moving, they have electric fields which are moving, does this mean they emit a magnetic field?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Yes, uniformely moving charges produce magnetic fields, according to Maxwell's equations; accelerating charges produce electromagnetic radiation.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    Cool Thanks.

    So what do you think of using a tube with an electrolysis solution in it (fully saturated) and a coil around it to induce a current in it due to the?moving charged particles.

    Also do you happen to know what the current of a human nerve impulse is?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    So what do you think of using a tube with an electrolysis solution in it (fully saturated) and a coil around it to induce a current in it due to the?moving charged particles.
    The problem is that just as moving charges generate magnetic fields, it is changing magnetic fields ( or movement through a field ) which generates current. A static magnetic field will not do anything in a coil.

    Also do you happen to know what the current of a human nerve impulse is?
    I'm afraid that is not my area of expertise. Perhaps someone else can answer this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    So what do you think of using a tube with an electrolysis solution in it (fully saturated) and a coil around it to induce a current in it due to the?moving charged particles.
    It is not quite clear what you are asking (too many "its"). Are you suggesting passing a current through the electrlyte and inducing a current in tje coil, or the other way round?

    Also do you happen to know what the current of a human nerve impulse is?
    This is complicated because nerve signals are not carried by a current flowing down the nerve like a wire. It is more like a chain reaction of ion-transport current across the membrane that ripples down the nerve.
    Action potential - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I assume the currents involved are pretty small (of the order of milliamps) because the voltages are just 10s of millivolts. But I don't really know.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    Yes I am indeed asking can you use the moving charged particles in nerves to induce a current?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Yes I am indeed asking can you use the moving charged particles in nerves to induce a current?
    In principle. Whether this is actually doable in practice, I don't know. You may want to ask that in biology.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Yes I am indeed asking can you use the moving charged particles in nerves to induce a current?
    Not very easily. Human beings can be exposed to very high magnetic fields with no discernible effect since there is very little interaction between neuron polarization/depolarization and magnetic fields, which imply there is very little actual movement of charged particles (and/or purely symmetric motion of charged particles.)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Charged particles in motion is the definition of a current, isn't it?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Isotope
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Western US
    Posts
    2,857
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Yes I am indeed asking can you use the moving charged particles in nerves to induce a current?
    As harold's question reveals, your query is a bit vague. It's not entirely clear if you are asking if moving charged particles constitute a current (answer: yes); whether such a current would generate a magnetic field (answer: yes); or whether one can set charged particles into motion under the influence of an external magnetic field (answer: yes, but the field must be time-varying when viewed in the frame of the charges). As an example of the latter, patients frequently report interesting effects if they move during an MRI scan. Vertigo is perhaps the most commonly reported effect. Recent studies suggest that at least some of those cases are the result of Lorentz forces acting on ions.
    Markus Hanke and Howard Roark like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    Yes I do understand what the definition of current is.

    The original question was answered already

    Strange understood what I meant, which is having a coil around the spine, when I said "Yes I am indeed asking can you use the moving charged particles (involved in action potentials) in nerves to induce a current (in the coil)?

    So I am not trying to move the ions in the spine, rather I want to use their motion to induce a current somewhere else, since they will produce magnetic fields.

    Sorry for the confusion.
    Last edited by ChaosD.Ace; October 18th, 2013 at 04:38 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Strange understood what I meant, which is having a coil around the spine, when I said "Yes I am indeed asking can you use the moving charged particles (involved in action potentials) in nerves to induce a current (in the coil)?
    I agree with Strange in that it is probably doable in principle, but my feeling is that the resulting current will be so small as to be practically negligible.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    What about using a superconducting/nanotube coil etc. There must be some method of amplyfication right?

    Anyhow the whole point of this is to detect exactly which nerve fibres are active, so the induced won't be driving anything power-hungry. This links in to my neuromuscular actuation question because this is supposed to be the principle behind a method of synchronising biological muscles to artificial muscle fibres, what do you think of it?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    What about using a superconducting/nanotube coil etc.
    If you are using science fiction technology, then why not just nanoprobes which would detect the voltage directly?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    I am not using science fiction.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    7,302
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    What about using a superconducting/nanotube coil etc.
    I am not aware of any materials which are superconducting at body temperature; obviously including a cooling system with this wouldn't be practical or even doable.

    Anyhow the whole point of this is to detect exactly which nerve fibres are active, so the induced won't be driving anything power-hungry. This links in to my neuromuscular actuation question because this is supposed to be the principle behind a method of synchronising biological muscles to artificial muscle fibres, what do you think of it
    I can't really comment on this, it's not my area of expertise.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    Thanks, I just don't want to rely on brain wave readers.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Which is why I included the other links.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    163
    So thanks for the links, Electromyography has too many limitations:

    Requires power, I can't afford to waste energy on the detection mechanism.
    I need to be able to detect every muscle in the human body (even the tiny ones) (sometimes simultaenously) and need to intercept the impulses before they reach the muscle, I don't feel confortable having a hundred electrodes on the human body.
    I prefer to have a centralised detector.

    I supose I could use Brain Waves but that relies on patterns of motion rather than individual muscles, I'll make a design for a brain wave reader though.

    Thanks for the help.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 13
    Last Post: April 13th, 2013, 10:40 AM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 15th, 2011, 01:51 PM
  3. REVERSED MAGNETIC CHARGED PARTICAL FUSION TECHNOLOGY
    By Fluid space in forum Personal Theories & Alternative Ideas
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 25th, 2010, 03:17 PM
  4. Why does moving electron produce magnetic field?
    By scientist91 in forum Physics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 14th, 2007, 07:33 PM
  5. Replies: 47
    Last Post: June 27th, 2007, 09:40 AM
Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •