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Thread: Which came first, space or time?

  1. #1 Which came first, space or time? 
    Forum Freshman Dreamraider's Avatar
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    Bang! Universe is suddenly in existence. Which comes out of the bang first, time or space?


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  3. #2  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    What came out was spacetime.


    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  4. #3  
    Forum Freshman Dreamraider's Avatar
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    Sorry about that stupid question, somebody hijacked my iPad. Got it back!
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  5. #4  
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    It's actually an interesting question. The instant space was created, time came with it. Time exists with, starts with, and ends with space.
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  6. #5  
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    One of two seems possible

    Simply either both have same age

    or

    Space is more fundamental than time
    "No law of Physics is surprising & can not beat commonsense until it does not give enough explanation logically or I did not understand it rightly or simply it is wrong "
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  7. #6  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    You can't have one without the other. They are two facets of one thing.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    You can't have one without the other. They are two facets of one thing.
    It is included in my answer in first option
    both may have same age
    "No law of Physics is surprising & can not beat commonsense until it does not give enough explanation logically or I did not understand it rightly or simply it is wrong "
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  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    But how could you have time, if you only had empty space with no matter or energy?
    If theres no change how can time have a meaning?
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  10. #9  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    But there's never been empty space. Space has been filled with energy since it's inception.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  11. #10  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    If energy(even matter) is linked to space and time, and time and space are perceived as dimensions, why isnt matter or energy considered a dimension? (Im just throwing this out without much thought)

    what is energy anyway? Is energy another aspect of change?
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  12. #11  
    Anti-Crank AlexG's Avatar
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    Energy isn't a thing in itself. It's a property of things, of matter and fields.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamraider View Post
    Bang! Universe is suddenly in existence. Which comes out of the bang first, time or space?
    Why would you think that there'd have to have an order to their creation and not be created all at once? Time is the phenomena which allows differences in the state of the universe to exist and evolve from one into the other. There's no order to the creation of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJ_K
    Space is more fundamental than time.
    I see no reason for that to be true. In fact you haven't even stated what it means to you for something to be "more fundamental" than somthing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG
    You can't have one without the other. They are two facets of one thing.
    I disagree. That's a common misconception. Only mathematically are they part of one thing. Physically they are quite different. As Einstein said in A Brief Outline of the Development of the Theory of Relativity Albert Einstein, Nature, Feb. 17, 1922, page 783
    From this it follows that, in respect of its role in the equations of physics, though not with regard to its physical significance, time is equivalent to space co-ordinate (apart from the relations of reality).
    As Richard C. Tolman wrote in his relativity text, you can’t rotate a clock into a rod.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Ph.D. merumario's Avatar
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    The true concept of space αη∂ time is understandable but the main concept of time is not i.e its general description. We cannot Say both must come as pairs,although both are use in a more realistic description of time.
    "I am sorry for making this letter longer than usual.I actually lacked the time to make it shorter."###
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  15. #14  
    Time Lord
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    Time can't have a start because without time, there is no before and after. That's just silly. How does one discuss the time before time? How do you discuss the event that initiated time?

    We can discuss finite distance in the context of a curved surface, where once you travel far enough in one direction you simply end up back where you started. However, it would be difficult to discuss time that way in the Big Bang Theory, unless the universe eventually contracts again.

    Without a big crunch, you're stuck with the same absurdities as if you tried to put an outer spatial boundary on the universe, beyond which objects simply fall over the edge or something. You have to answer the question: what's beyond that point?
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    But there's never been empty space. Space has been filled with energy since it's inception.
    Again I am saying , if it is true, both may have same age.
    "No law of Physics is surprising & can not beat commonsense until it does not give enough explanation logically or I did not understand it rightly or simply it is wrong "
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  17. #16  
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    If there was some physical presence in space , there may be "Time "
    "No law of Physics is surprising & can not beat commonsense until it does not give enough explanation logically or I did not understand it rightly or simply it is wrong "
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  18. #17  
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    If one considers the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker (FLRW) metric at times including before the Big Bang, then time always existed, whereas space was null at the Big Bang (but not before or after). However, it is my hypothesis that due to quantum theory, spacetime didn't emerge until sometime after the Big Bang (and there was no before the Big Bang). I mention this only to point out that one shouldn't take a classical theory such as GR too seriously at such early times in the universe.
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  19. #18  
    Forum Ph.D. merumario's Avatar
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    Time is not from tin air!if there was a mark in state change of the early universe(hot dense to cooler state with formation of what we know now) then time to Me must have existed with any phase!
    "I am sorry for making this letter longer than usual.I actually lacked the time to make it shorter."###
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  20. #19  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    EDIT: very odd, the post this was a reply to seems to have disappeared. I've noticed the poster I replied to has been suspended. Have all of their posts been deleted as well?
    It was a spammer who posted several monumentally dull posts and then ...Spam! Not sure what the point is of doing that.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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