Notices
Results 1 to 11 of 11
Like Tree4Likes
  • 2 Post By Guitarist
  • 2 Post By John Galt

Thread: Stella Nucleosynthesis...

  1. #1 Stella Nucleosynthesis... 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,525
    Hello all, Stella Nucleosynthesis, an interseting process using the Proton-proton chain, to what I see as perpetual energy , self contained and self maintained.

    The process seems to end only when there is a density of mass and the process changes to an implode, rather than an explode of gases.

    The implode then creates an explode, which in terms, means that new mass is created in the universe, as the mass is ejected into space.

    Is this the singularity that we know as the BIg Bang?.


    I am presuming the process starts by gases of opposite polarities attracting?,

    I then see the pressure bringing the particles of the gases into close approximity,
    and this then starts to create friction, which then creates heat/energy,
    the energy then starts to create movement, and the particles start to rotate with the force of inertia?


    The Proton-Proton chain is then about to begin.

    The initial start of rotation, then produces centripetal force, this force pressures all the particles to a central point, as well as gaining extra particles from the surrounding area, creating more density. At this stage, there is no centrifugal force, as there is no outer density at this stage.

    The central movement of the particles, then become restricted , then in effect, creating more friction, heat and pressure.

    The pressure and energy then force the central particles to fuse, and the Proton-Proton chain then starts to come into effect.

    As more dense particles are drawn to the central point, the more buoyant particles are forced to the outer layers, to make room for the heavier mass.
    Similar to dropping a brick in a pond, the waters density is less than the brick, the water makes space to allow the brick to sink, heading towards our central point.


    At this stage Gravity doe's not exist.


    The process then allows the new born star, to expand, the central point, becoming more dense under pressure, that allows the process to continue, larger inner density of mass, forcing lighter mass out of the way to make room.

    As the star expands, it reaches a point of equilibrium, the process then continues, but the expansion as stopped, as the equilibrium of force, allows the star to stay in a neutral state of expansion.


    The star then emits light, or better described as radiation, light been the less dense of particles, so this is expelled into space by the centrifugal force that as developed by the inner density and the expanding mass.

    All other particles, hold their position, in their respective layers of buoncy.

    New heavier particles are then drawn in, by the electromagnetism that as been created.

    The pressure in the central point then becomes intense.


    This then forces the particles to compress, the central point having the most pressure.

    Two or more particles , are then forced to occupy the same space, -1 particle as 2 becomes 1.

    This then in effect creates room, and the other particles fill the gap, but the pressure is at continued effect, as the room/space, is filled, this causes the implosion, that then in effect cause an explosion of new matter.



    I thank you for comments, and hope I have put this post together in a more reasonable manner.

    I can not at this time explain the Proton - Proton chain in detail, that is a lot to take in and learn in one go.

    And pleae do not ridicule my post, this is a tester post to see if my speculation as improved.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,607
    theorist - just a friendly word. If, as seems apparent from another thread here, you don't know the Laws of Boyle and Guy-Lussac (and their synthesis, the Ideal Gas Law) - most high school physics students do - I strongly suggest you do not ask questions in far more advanced subjects of physics.

    You ask not to be ridiculed, so why not take it one step at a time, just like the rest of us did in our chosen field of study? It is a long road, certainly, but there is none other


    John Galt and Strange like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,676
    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    And pleae do not ridicule my post, this is a tester post to see if my speculation as improved.
    If you're going to persist in posting (uninformed) speculation, as opposed to informed science, then ridicule is all you should expect.
    It might have indicated some progress toward learning if you managed to spell "stellar" correctly.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,522
    First, let me state that I know almost nothing about stellar nucleosynthesis - but there are a few fundamental errors in the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    Hello all, Stella Nucleosynthesis, an interseting process using the Proton-proton chain, to what I see as perpetual energy , self contained and self maintained.
    Not perpetual. Just until the fuel runs out.

    The implode then creates an explode, which in terms, means that new mass is created in the universe, as the mass is ejected into space.
    No new mass is created. It is just mass that was in the star.

    Is this the singularity that we know as the BIg Bang?.
    Absolutely not. It is a supernova. They happen fairly frequently. (Unlike the big bang, which only happened once.)

    I am presuming the process starts by gases of opposite polarities attracting?,
    No. The process starts by hydrogen atoms fusing to form helium. There is no such thing as "gases of opposite polarities".

    I then see the pressure bringing the particles of the gases into close approximity,
    and this then starts to create friction, which then creates heat/energy,
    the energy then starts to create movement, and the particles start to rotate with the force of inertia?
    Crudely correct. Apart from the random "start to rotate with the force of inertia" bit.

    The initial start of rotation, then produces centripetal force, this force pressures all the particles to a central point, as well as gaining extra particles from the surrounding area, creating more density. At this stage, there is no centrifugal force, as there is no outer density at this stage.
    No. The density (and temperature) is purely the result of the stars gravity pulling everything towards the centre. Nothing to do with rotation or centripetal force. Gravity pulls inward, pressure pushes outward, a balance is reached.

    At this stage Gravity doe's not exist.
    Gravity always exists (when there is mass or energy around - and there is a lot of mass and energy in a star).

    The star then emits light, or better described as radiation, light been the less dense of particles, so this is expelled into space by the centrifugal force that as developed by the inner density and the expanding mass.
    Nothing to do with centrifugal force. Light always travels at the speed of light so will naturally leave the star.

    All other particles, hold their position, in their respective layers of buoncy.
    I imagine a star is very turbulent with a lot of convection, etc. I doubt anything holds its position.

    New heavier particles are then drawn in, by the electromagnetism that as been created.
    Sounds unlikely.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    My preferred lager is Stella. Although drinking more than four pints can produce the feeling that nucleosynthesis is taking place in my internals, I doubt this is actually the case.
    Neverfly and Dywyddyr like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,525
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    First, let me state that I know almost nothing about stellar nucleosynthesis - but there are a few fundamental errors in the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    Hello all, Stella Nucleosynthesis, an interseting process using the Proton-proton chain, to what I see as perpetual energy , self contained and self maintained.
    Not perpetual. Just until the fuel runs out. How can the fuel run out?

    The implode then creates an explode, which in terms, means that new mass is created in the universe, as the mass is ejected into space.
    No new mass is created. It is just mass that was in the star. Yes that is what I meant, but meant the new mass that is made in a star.

    Is this the singularity that we know as the BIg Bang?.
    Absolutely not. It is a supernova. They happen fairly frequently. (Unlike the big bang, which only happened once.) Arrr, yes I see the difference.

    I am presuming the process starts by gases of opposite polarities attracting?,
    No. The process starts by hydrogen atoms fusing to form helium. There is no such thing as "gases of opposite polarities". So what force does attract the H to fuse to together, a collision? If not there as to be something that originally attracts H to fuse? meaning the first two H that start the process.

    I then see the pressure bringing the particles of the gases into close approximity,
    and this then starts to create friction, which then creates heat/energy,
    the energy then starts to create movement, and the particles start to rotate with the force of inertia?
    Crudely correct. Apart from the random "start to rotate with the force of inertia" bit. Is inertia not impact?

    The initial start of rotation, then produces centripetal force, this force pressures all the particles to a central point, as well as gaining extra particles from the surrounding area, creating more density. At this stage, there is no centrifugal force, as there is no outer density at this stage.
    No. The density (and temperature) is purely the result of the stars gravity pulling everything towards the centre. Nothing to do with rotation or centripetal force. Gravity pulls inward, pressure pushes outward, a balance is reached. But when a star is born from the very first action, it as no gravity so what initailly brings it together, the gases etc?


    At this stage Gravity doe's not exist.
    Gravity always exists (when there is mass or energy around - and there is a lot of mass and energy in a star).

    Again I was still picturing the very beginning of the stars life at this stage.

    The star then emits light, or better described as radiation, light been the less dense of particles, so this is expelled into space by the centrifugal force that as developed by the inner density and the expanding mass.
    Nothing to do with centrifugal force. Light always travels at the speed of light so will naturally leave the star. How is it able to leave gravity so easily, if your statement says gravity pulls everything to the center, how can any particle escape, how is the velocity of C, made, what force is used to accellerate Photons.

    Newtons laws, and the rocket example in other post, so how can the photon have velocity at c, with no external force, i.e rocket thruster?



    All other particles, hold their position, in their respective layers of buoncy.
    I imagine a star is very turbulent with a lot of convection, etc. I doubt anything holds its position.General area of height to surface ratio.

    New heavier particles are then drawn in, by the electromagnetism that as been created.
    Sounds unlikely.
    Maybe unlikely, I am not of a positon to argue the point as you have the advanced knowledge. Thank You strange for the answers and thought. Was my post more exceptable and less wild than previous?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,525
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    My preferred lager is Stella. Although drinking more than four pints can produce the feeling that nucleosynthesis is taking place in my internals, I doubt this is actually the case.
    Maybe if the gases did not release, we may have problems lol.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,525
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarist View Post
    theorist - just a friendly word. If, as seems apparent from another thread here, you don't know the Laws of Boyle and Guy-Lussac (and their synthesis, the Ideal Gas Law) - most high school physics students do - I strongly suggest you do not ask questions in far more advanced subjects of physics.

    You ask not to be ridiculed, so why not take it one step at a time, just like the rest of us did in our chosen field of study? It is a long road, certainly, but there is none other
    Thank you, I will look up Boyle and Guy-Lussac, I do not know who to look for until I am told or what to look for. I thank you and advice taken.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,676
    Trash please mods.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,522
    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    How can the fuel run out?
    The fuel is hydrogen. Hydrogen is being fused to form helium. Eventually there is not enough hydrogen left to keep the reaction going.

    Yes that is what I meant, but meant the new mass that is made in a star.
    Mass is not made in a star. The mass is there. Initially it is hydrogen. Then it is converted to helium.

    So what force does attract the H to fuse to together, a collision? If not there as to be something that originally attracts H to fuse? meaning the first two H that start the process.
    Pressure and high temperature causes them to collide at high speed (high energy) which allows them to fuse.

    Is inertia not impact?
    No. Inertia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to a change in its state of motion or rest, or the tendency of an object to resist any change in its motion."

    But when a star is born from the very first action, it as no gravity so what initailly brings it together, the gases etc?
    Of course it has gravity. All mass has gravity. It is gravity that causes the cloud of gas to collapse to form a star.

    How is it able to leave gravity so easily, if your statement says gravity pulls everything to the center, how can any particle escape, how is the velocity of C, made, what force is used to accellerate Photons.
    There is not enough gravity in a star to stop light escaping. Only a balck hole can do that.

    Newtons laws, and the rocket example in other post, so how can the photon have velocity at c, with no external force, i.e rocket thruster?
    Light always travels at the speed of light (the clue is in the name).

    Was my post more exceptable and less wild than previous?[/COLOR]
    Maybe. Just about.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Senior
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    316
    < voice = Stanley Kowalski >

    STELLAR!

    < /voice >

    sorry.

    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •