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Thread: Testing my Physics.

  1. #1 Testing my Physics. 
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    Hello all, as in the chemistry section of the forum, but this time Physics.

    1. All mass is made of atoms.

    2. Physics studies the inner workings of the Atom and all energy related and the creation of mass.

    3. Each Atom is said to have 3 quarks

    4. Quantum mechanics is the in depth study of Atoms.

    5. Quantum Physics is a group definition of the study of Atoms,

    6. Particle Physics is the study of all known particles in the universe.

    7. High energy is needed for nuclear fusion.

    8. Nuclear reactors use nuclear fishion.

    9. Uranium as a waste product called Platonium after nuclear use.

    10. It is beleived that Atoms collide at C , to cause fusion.

    11. The Atom is said to have a sphere like shape due to the electron shell.

    12. Plasma is at the core of the Sun.

    13. Plasma when into contact with the cold turns into gas form.

    14. We can create Plasma, for use in global energy, but the magnetic bottling is bucklling under the pressure, giving only seconds of use.

    15. Photons are constant relative to all observers

    16. Bosons are the only known particle that can occupy the same space

    17. Electrons are seen through a electron microscope in a surface test

    18. A computer simulates the probabilities of location


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  3. #2  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Instead of a random assortment of answers to no questions which then have to be corrected by others, I would suggest you order your "test" in the form of explaining a process and the forces contained within. For instance, give a brief rundown of how you think stellar nucleosynthesis occurs and how the forces interact.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Instead of a random assortment of answers to no questions which then have to be corrected by others, I would suggest you order your "test" in the form of explaining a process and the forces contained within. For instance, give a brief rundown of how you think stellar nucleosynthesis occurs and how the forces interact.
    Thank you Flick for the advice, I will look at stellar nucleosyntheseis and try to write a brief description and how I think it works, although, is not how I see it just speculation?

    Or do you mean it in the sense of trying to get my wording right with the breif description?
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  5. #4  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Don't speculate. Just take what you know about forces, interactions, and processes and apply them to explaining something. You could go much simpler as well. You could try to answers, "Why does steam at 100 C burn skin more than water at 100 C?"

    Science is just application and problem solving. Memorizing definitions is useless if you can't apply it to the world around you.
    John Galt and Strange like this.
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    You numbered in correct chronological order with the bullet names.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    1. All mass is made of atoms.
    Near enough.

    2. Physics studies the inner workings of the Atom and all energy related and the creation of mass.
    And many other things.

    3. Each Atom is said to have 3 quarks
    Each proton or neutron consists of 3 quarks. There may be multiple protons or neutrons in an atom.

    4. Quantum mechanics is the in depth study of Atoms.
    More than that. It includes photons, other particles and the interactions of objects on this scale.

    5. Quantum Physics is a group definition of the study of Atoms,
    I would say no; that is too restrictive.

    6. Particle Physics is the study of all known particles in the universe.
    Yes...

    7. High energy is needed for nuclear fusion.

    8. Nuclear reactors use nuclear fishion.
    OK.

    9. Uranium as a waste product called Platonium after nuclear use.
    Is that "as" supposed to be "has"? If so yes (plutonium - named after the Greek god, not the philosopher)

    10. It is beleived that Atoms collide at C , to cause fusion.
    What? No.

    11. The Atom is said to have a sphere like shape due to the electron shell.
    Close enough.

    12. Plasma is at the core of the Sun.
    I don't know.

    13. Plasma when into contact with the cold turns into gas form.
    There is no "the cold". A plasma has to be energetic (hot) to strip the electrons from the atoms. When it cools they will recombine.

    14. We can create Plasma, for use in global energy, but the magnetic bottling is bucklling under the pressure, giving only seconds of use.
    Yes. Note that we create plasmas in all sorts of other contexts. Neon lights for example: the light comes from a plasma created by passing electric current through the gas.

    15. Photons are constant relative to all observers
    The velocity of photons is the same for all observers.

    16. Bosons are the only known particle that can occupy the same space
    I suppose that's right.

    17. Electrons are seen through a electron microscope in a surface test
    No. An electron uses electrons instead of light to see very small things: because the wavelength of electrons is shorter than the wavelength of light. Atoms can be "seen" using an atomic force microscope or scanning tunnelling microscope (or whatever they are called - can't be bothered to google and check!)

    18. A computer simulates the probabilities of location
    A computer can do all sorts of things.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Don't speculate. Just take what you know about forces, interactions, and processes and apply them to explaining something. You could go much simpler as well. You could try to answers, "Why does steam at 100 C burn skin more than water at 100 C?"

    Science is just application and problem solving. Memorizing definitions is useless if you can't apply it to the world around you.
    Thank you Flick, so you mean actually think about it a bit first, then apply the knowledge to a post?
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  9. #8  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Sure.

    I will tell you, as a fact, that 100 C steam will burn your more seriously than 100 C water. You tell me why.

    By the way, that C as in Celsius, but I don't know where that little degree symbol is.

    EDIT: Oops, I thought this was the chemistry thread. Do something physics related, then. Hell, I don't know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    1. All mass is made of atoms.
    Near enough.

    2. Physics studies the inner workings of the Atom and all energy related and the creation of mass.
    And many other things.

    3. Each Atom is said to have 3 quarks
    Each proton or neutron consists of 3 quarks. There may be multiple protons or neutrons in an atom.

    4. Quantum mechanics is the in depth study of Atoms.
    More than that. It includes photons, other particles and the interactions of objects on this scale.

    5. Quantum Physics is a group definition of the study of Atoms,
    I would say no; that is too restrictive.

    6. Particle Physics is the study of all known particles in the universe.
    Yes...

    7. High energy is needed for nuclear fusion.

    8. Nuclear reactors use nuclear fishion.
    OK.

    9. Uranium as a waste product called Platonium after nuclear use.
    Is that "as" supposed to be "has"? If so yes (plutonium - named after the Greek god, not the philosopher)

    Yes it was meant to be has, forgive the poor wording. And yes I can not beleive I spelt it Platonium, I know it is Plutonium, miss type sorry.

    10. It is beleived that Atoms collide at C , to cause fusion.
    What? No.

    I thought that is what E=MC squared meant, please explain the correct thought please.

    11. The Atom is said to have a sphere like shape due to the electron shell.
    Close enough.

    12. Plasma is at the core of the Sun.
    I don't know.

    13. Plasma when into contact with the cold turns into gas form.
    There is no "the cold". A plasma has to be energetic (hot) to strip the electrons from the atoms. When it cools they will recombine.

    I did mean that, and should of worded when cooled down turns into gas.

    14. We can create Plasma, for use in global energy, but the magnetic bottling is bucklling under the pressure, giving only seconds of use.
    Yes. Note that we create plasmas in all sorts of other contexts. Neon lights for example: the light comes from a plasma created by passing electric current through the gas.

    15. Photons are constant relative to all observers
    The velocity of photons is the same for all observers.

    16. Bosons are the only known particle that can occupy the same space
    I suppose that's right.

    17. Electrons are seen through a electron microscope in a surface test
    No. An electron uses electrons instead of light to see very small things: because the wavelength of electrons is shorter than the wavelength of light. Atoms can be "seen" using an atomic force microscope or scanning tunnelling microscope (or whatever they are called - can't be bothered to google and check!)

    I do know about the tunnelling process, and yes I do know that electrons are fired from an electron gun and light is not used. I think my exlanation was a bit to primitive on this one. I apologize.

    18. A computer simulates the probabilities of location
    A computer can do all sorts of things.
    Thank you for the help
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Sure.

    I will tell you, as a fact, that 100 C steam will burn your more seriously than 100 C water. You tell me why.

    By the way, that C as in Celsius, but I don't know where that little degree symbol is.

    EDIT: Oops, I thought this was the chemistry thread. Do something physics related, then. Hell, I don't know.
    Thank you, I think I can explain why steam burns you more, I will try in chemistry later with a post if I can not come up with a Physics post.
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  12. #11  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    Thank you Flick, so you mean actually think about it a bit first
    There is never a time when that is not a good idea.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    10. It is beleived that Atoms collide at C , to cause fusion.
    What? No.

    I thought that is what E=MC squared meant, please explain the correct thought please.
    E=Mc2 just tells us the amount of energy equivalent to a given mass (e.g. if you could turn the mass entirely into energy, that is how much you would get.

    Fusion just requires enough pressure and energy to cause the atomic nuclei to get close enough to fuse. (I'm sure it is a little bit more complicated than that in reality.)
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    Thank you, I think I can explain why steam burns you more
    Hmm. I'll be interested in the answer to this, because I don't know either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    10. It is beleived that Atoms collide at C , to cause fusion.
    What? No.

    I thought that is what E=MC squared meant, please explain the correct thought please.
    E=Mc2 just tells us the amount of energy equivalent to a given mass (e.g. if you could turn the mass entirely into energy, that is how much you would get.

    Fusion just requires enough pressure and energy to cause the atomic nuclei to get close enough to fuse. (I'm sure it is a little bit more complicated than that in reality.)
    You mention pressure, in previous posts I was told it was not pressure.

    Why is the equasion not E=M-1? where does the C , come into it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    Thank you, I think I can explain why steam burns you more
    Hmm. I'll be interested in the answer to this, because I don't know either.
    Does any one know, will i be speculating the answer?, an obvious thought did come to mind.
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    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    I'll give you a hint; it is directly related to the Testing my Chemistry discussion.

    And if you have an idea, don't hold it back. That doesn't help you learn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I'll give you a hint; it is directly related to the Testing my Chemistry discussion.

    And if you have an idea, don't hold it back. That doesn't help you learn.
    Original thought, condensed energy, so steam as more energy due to ......I forgot the word lol. Endothermic energy. P.s hope i got the word right.

    grrrr lol...exothermic energy and also a thought of my own, steam moves it as velocity.
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    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    It's actually very simple. It does have to do with a release of energy during a state change.

    Consider this; what happens when gas becomes a liquid at room temperature. Does it release or absorb energy in the form of heat?

    EDIT: It might be helpful to consider this as well; does it require energy to change a liquid to a gas even if you do not change the temperature?
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    Why is the equasion not E=M-1? where does the C , come into it?
    c is the speed of light. c2 is the constant of proportionality between mass and energy. This is derived as a consequence of Einstein's theory of special relativity.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    all i can come up with is, pressure.
    the steam exerts a greater/deeper? penetration to the skin, because it naturally needs/uses more volume?
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  22. #21  
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    Flick gave the key hint - phase change.
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    the change from water to steam releases energy, because water is more dense, that's what i meant. i was thinking of a kettle on a stove. if that's wrong i need a new hint lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    It's actually very simple. It does have to do with a release of energy during a state change.

    Consider this; what happens when gas becomes a liquid at room temperature. Does it release or absorb energy in the form of heat?

    EDIT: It might be helpful to consider this as well; does it require energy to change a liquid to a gas even if you do not change the temperature?
    The boiling water as constant heat, the steam cools down releasing it's energy?

    That is what I meant with the first post if this is right.
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    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Yeah, pretty close.

    I'll just work it out because otherwise I'll probably forget.

    First thing is first, you know the temps are the same so you're going to have to find your energy somewhere else.

    Second, consider what you know about phase change. It takes energy to change state, independent of temperature. For water, we know we get about 40.7 kJ/mol when water changes from gas to liquid (subsequently, we must introduce that same amount of energy to change liquid water to gas).

    Finally, let's consider what happens when water steam interacts with a surface cooler than it is (assuming you're made of human skin and not magma or something). The water, as we know from hot breath on a cold window, condenses.

    Now let's put it all together. The 100 C water touches your skin and releases some amount of energy in the form of heat into your skin. The steam, however, touches your skin and goes through the process of condensation. This state change releases a fairly large amount of energy. Your skin is in direct contact with the water and absorbs at least some of that energy. That state change energy causes the steam to burn more.



    I give this example purely because it takes something we all know about (steam burns badly) and applies some very simple science to figure out why. Personally, I find these sort of real world examples really help put what I know into perspective. When I'm teaching chem, I always try to give people a fun example to work out on their own to see how well they can APPLY the processes they learn. Like I said, science is about problem solving. It's more than knowing the terms and processes. It's about applying them.
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    I guess it depends on what assumptions you make. Certainly, a given mass of saturated steam will burn your skin more than an equal mass of water at saturation temperature, because of the latent heat in the steam. However, if you immerse some body part in a large pot of boiling water (or steam of the same temperature) the total mass of water or steam won't matter much to how badly you are burned. The heat transferred to that body part will simply be proportional to the temperature differerence between the body part and the fluid. This will be worse than air at the same temperature, because with air there is an insulating layer of still air next to the skin that will delay the transfer of heat.
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    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    You know I made up this example for theorist right? Let's walk before we run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    You know I made up this example for theorist right? Let's walk before we run.
    Yes, but I thought it was a bit confusing because there wasn't anything to clue Theorist in to the fact that we were comparing equal masses of water or steam. What I thought of was exposing a certain patch of skin to either boiling water or saturated steam, with the temperature of each being maintained at 100C and what might cause the difference. Then I thought of how water of a certain temperature feels either colder or hotter than air of the same temperature, because of the insulating effect of the air. So it made me wonder why steam would feel hotter than boiling water.
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  29. #28  
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    Sorry. It's a safe assumption with any example I give that the amounts are always equal unless otherwise stated. Since I've only ever done these kinds of examples within the confines of a classroom, it's an unspoken rule.

    I also rule out other variables unless they are expressly presented. Otherwise, there could be an infinite number of variations in the answer.
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    So if I was to fall into a bath of boiling water, fully submerged, the pressure of the surrounding water, would pressure more energy into my skin, burning me more, than the surrounding pressure of air?

    Where as steam at high pressure would again, have even more effect of force, of energy, again burning me more than the bath?.
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  31. #30  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why pressure is factoring into this. Steam at high pressure is water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    So if I was to fall into a bath of boiling water, fully submerged, the pressure of the surrounding water, would pressure more energy into my skin, burning me more, than the surrounding pressure of air?

    Where as steam at high pressure would again, have even more effect of force, of energy, again burning me more than the bath?.
    If you fell into a bath of boiling water, you'd be cooked in short order. It's not because of the pressure, it's the heat. If you went into a room with air at the same temperature, you'd still die but it would take a bit longer. That's because there is a thin film of air that would cling to your skin, and provide a bit of insulation which slows down the transfer of heat.

    The steam would not burn you more than the boiling water bath, but probably just as fast. Again, we are not talking about high pressure steam, just atmospheric pressure.

    If you put steam under pressure, like in a pressure cooker, it can get hotter than steam at atmospheric pressure. That's how a pressure cooker cooks things faster.
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    if you were in a room where the air temperature would be 100 degree, you'd also inhale that. that can't be healthy either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious mind View Post
    if you were in a room where the air temperature would be 100 degree, you'd also inhale that. that can't be healthy either.
    No, but you can briefly put your hand into a 350F oven and nothing much happens, unless you would touch a hot dish or oven rack.
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