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Thread: Probabilities.

  1. #1 Probabilities. 
    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
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    If possible, in decimal form, could anyone please tell me the probability of a person disappearing and reappearing in another universe/area inside same universe etc, as Quantum mechanics denotes?

    PS: I can not find on the internet.



    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

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    mvb
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    I wouldn't want to attempt to calculate that probability. From experience with other quantum calculations, I can say with confidence that in the lifetime of the universe, no organized object the size of a person has ever done any such thing. Even the chance of one atom leaving your body and going to the other side of the room without interacting with something along the way is completely negligible, and I don't even need to know the size of the room to say that.


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    ***** Participant Write4U's Avatar
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    Perhaps this may be of interest.

    NOVA | The Fabric of the Cosmos

    see chapter five - teleportation -
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    Forum Bachelors Degree Kerling's Avatar
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    Well, whatever the odds. The probability of you appearing about a millimeter next to where you are standing now is about 1 in 10^34. Considering the quadratic increase, and that you are a million lightyears away (that is 34+6+30( should put your odds at aroung 1 in 10^70. And that is in an empty universe with, just you.
    Not really happening. There is a reason why in the hitchhikers guide the machine is called the 'infinite' probability engine.
    In the information age ignorance is a choice.
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    This is the best way I can write it:
    Probability = 1-0.9
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    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerling View Post
    Well, whatever the odds. The probability of you appearing about a millimeter next to where you are standing now is about 1 in 10^34. Considering the quadratic increase, and that you are a million lightyears away (that is 34+6+30( should put your odds at aroung 1 in 10^70. And that is in an empty universe with, just you.
    Not really happening. There is a reason why in the hitchhikers guide the machine is called the 'infinite' probability engine.
    Of course this will vary greatly with size, so would you happen to know the probability of a single electron moving?

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon Keogh View Post
    If possible, in decimal form, could anyone please tell me the probability of a person disappearing and reappearing in another universe/area inside same universe etc, as Quantum mechanics denotes?

    PS: I can not find on the internet.
    First of all other universes are only hypothetical. In the other-worlds interpretation of QM, it is a minority opinion. There is no consensus math to calculate such an event. For pure speculation I would say that other universes in other dimensions might by a 100,000 to 1 bet. Other universes separated by vast amounts of space in our same dimensions might only be a 1000 to 1 bet.

    Going between dimensions or universes through some portal, I'll put the odds also at 100,000 to 1. That's my quick guesses. The odds for it spontaneously happening at any given moment, as you explained, odds of 1 in 1070 as Kerling suggested, sounds as good an "educated guess" as any to me If you are a huge fan of most all science fiction then divide all the odds by 100, if not then multiply them by 106 .
    Last edited by forrest noble; February 5th, 2013 at 04:47 AM.
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    Forum Bachelors Degree Kerling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon Keogh View Post
    Of course this will vary greatly with size, so would you happen to know the probability of a single electron moving?
    This would be much higher. But is is very much dependent of how, and with what it interacts. if it is unobserved for a longer period of time. Then it might be possible. But at such engineering it would be more aptly called teleportation.
    In the information age ignorance is a choice.
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    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
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    According to my calculation based on previous posts on this thread, the possibility of one human on earth disappearing and reappearing 1mm away is a 0.0000000000000000000000000074% chance.

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
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  11. #10  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    You can think of this as quantum tunnelling through a potential barrier. The exact analytical treatment is rather cumbersome, but to good approximation the tunnelling probability decreases exponentially with increasing barrier width. For a barrier width substantially larger than the de Broglie wavelength of the particle/object in question, that probability rapidly becomes so small as to be virtually vanishing....but of course it never becomes exactly zero, so there is always some chance that you might wake up with half of your body embedded in a wall *shudder*.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    so there is always some chance that you might wake up with half of your body embedded in a wall *shudder*.
    Especially if you have been at the Amontillado.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Universalis Infinitis Devon Keogh's Avatar
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    Hehe, I tell this to people all the time and they dont believe me. It is actually a pretty funny phenomenon.

    "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
    Sir Isaac Newton

    In my own opinion there is no greater mathematical Principle than that which is x - x = 0. This shows that matter can be created from nothing as long as the total product of the matter's mass & energy equal exactly zero.
    The only question is, "Where did all that antimatter go?"

    Favourite Elements: Sodium, Neodymium, Xenon
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  14. #13  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon Keogh View Post
    Hehe, I tell this to people all the time and they dont believe me. It is actually a pretty funny phenomenon.
    Not if you're the one being embedded in the wall, it isn't...
    This reminds me of a certain Star Trek:TNG episode, where something along those lines was depicted ( yes, I was a Trekkie once !!!! ). It was actually rather gruesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    This reminds me of a certain Star Trek:TNG episode, where something along those lines was depicted ( yes, I was a Trekkie once !!!! ). It was actually rather gruesome.
    That was the one where Ryker and some Admiral dude went after a Top Secrete Fed cloak, right?
    Oh hell, now I made myself look like a Trekkie...
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  16. #15  
    ***** Participant Write4U's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerling View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Devon Keogh View Post
    Of course this will vary greatly with size, so would you happen to know the probability of a single electron moving?
    This would be much higher. But is is very much dependent of how, and with what it interacts. if it is unobserved for a longer period of time. Then it might be possible. But at such engineering it would be more aptly called teleportation.
    Excsrpt from the link above.

    BRIAN GREENE: Star Trek has always made beaming, or teleporting, look pretty convenient. It seems like pure science fiction, but could entanglement make it possible?

    Remarkably, tests are already underway, here on the Canary Islands, off the coast of Africa.

    ANTON ZEILINGER (University of Vienna): We do the experiments here, on the Canary Islands, because you have two observatories. And, after all, it's a nice environment.

    BRIAN GREENE: Anton Zeilinger is a long way from teleporting himself or any other human. But he is trying to use quantum entanglement to teleport tiny individual particles, in this case, photons, particles of light.

    He starts by generating a pair of entangled photons in a lab on the island of La Palma. One entangled photon stays on La Palma, while the other is sent by laser-guided telescope to the island of Tenerife, 89 miles away.

    Next, Zeilinger brings in a third photon, the one he wants to teleport, and has it interact with the entangled photon on La Palma.

    The team studies the interaction, comparing the quantum states of the two particles. And here's the amazing part. Because of spooky action, the team is able to use that comparison to transform the entangled photon on the distant island into an identical copy of that third photon.

    It will be as if the third photon has teleported across the sea, without traversing the space between the islands.

    ANTON ZEILINGER: We, sort of, extract the information carried by the original and make a new original there.

    BRIAN GREENE: Using this technique, Zeilinger has successfully teleported dozens of particles. But could this go even further?

    Since we're made of particles, could this process make human teleportation possible one day?

    ATTENDANT: Welcome to New York City.

    BRIAN GREENE: Let's say I want to get to Paris for a quick lunch. Well, in theory, entanglement might someday make that possible. Here's what I'd need. A chamber or particles here in New York that's entangled with another chamber of particles in Paris.

    ATTENDANT: Right this way, Mr. Greene.

    BRIAN GREENE: I would step into a pod that acts sort of like a scanner or fax machine. While the device scans the huge number of particles in my bodyŚmore particles than there are stars in the observable universeŚit's jointly scanning the particles in the other chamber. And it creates a list that compares the quantum state of the two sets of particles. And here's where entanglement comes in. Because of spooky action at a distance, that list also reveals how the original state of my particles is related to the state of the particles in Paris.

    Next, the operator sends that list to Paris. There they use the data to reconstruct the exact quantum state of every single one of my particles.

    And a new me materializes.

    It's not that the particles traveled from New York to Paris. It's that entanglement allows my quantum state to be extracted in New York and reconstituted in Paris, down to the last particle.

    ATTENDANT: Bonjour, Monsieur Greene.

    BRIAN GREENE: Hi, there.

    So, here I am in Paris, an exact replica of myself. And I'd better be, because measuring the quantum states of all my particles in New York has destroyed the original me.

    EDWARD FARHI: It is absolutely required in the quantum teleportation protocol that the thing that is teleported is destroyed in the process. And you know, that does make you a little anxious.

    I guess you would just end up being a lump of neutrons, protons and electrons. You wouldn't look too good.

    BRIAN GREENE: Now, we are a long way from human teleportation today, but the possibility raises a question: is the Brian Greene who arrives in Paris really me?

    Well, there should be no difference between the old me in New York and the new me, here in Paris. And the reason is that, according to quantum mechanics, it's not the physical particles that make me me, it's the information those particles contain. And that information has been teleported exactly, for all the trillions of trillions of particles that make up my body.

    ANTON ZEILINGER: It is a very deep philosophical question, whether what arrives at the receiving station is the original or not. My position is that, by "original" we mean something which has all the properties of the original. And if this is the case, then it is the original.

    JOHN CLAUSER: I wouldn't step into that machine.

    BRIAN GREENE: Whether or not human teleportation ever becomes a reality, the fuzzy uncertainty of quantum mechanics has all sorts of other potential applications
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    That was the one where Ryker and some Admiral dude went after a Top Secrete Fed cloak, right?
    Oh hell, now I made myself look like a Trekkie...
    I can't really remember, this was like early 90s ??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    I can't really remember,
    I don't either...
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  19. #18  
    Quagma SpeedFreek's Avatar
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    Ascended likes this.
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  20. #19  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
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    My understanding from watching this was that using heisenberg's uncertainty principle the more accurately we could measure the particles orginal positions the more prone they were to moving, meaning that if we could measure the postions really really accurately then we could significantely increase the probability that they will move about.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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