Thread: 3 States or 4?

Some state Plasma as the 4th state of matter. Others stick to the 3 states system. What do u think?

liquid crystals, do they count as a fifth?

lets see, ive heard 6-8 states exist

I am aware of these six:

Solid
Liquid
Gas
Plasma
Bose-Einstein condensate
Fermionic condensate

I'm not familiar with the last two you listed Ophiolite. If you don't mind, could you or someone else briefly explain them? (in layman terms)

Well, I'm a layman as far as these are concerned, so take my explanation with a pinch of salt. Bose was a physicist who worked out some rules for the behaviour of electrons(? or was it photons). In essence these rules determined whether the electrons(or photons?) were identical or different. Einstein thought this might apply to atoms as well.

Apparently it applies to some atoms at very low temperatures. The atoms collapse or condense into the lowest and same quantum state. (I have no idea what this means in real terms. Does anything in quantum mechanics mean anything in real terms.) This is the Bose-Einstein condensate.

Particles that follow these statistics and could, in theory at least, form Bose-Einstein condensates are called bosons. All other particles follow another set of statistical rules and are called fermions. They can condense in a similar way to produce a fermionic condensate.

I suspect this is such an oversimplification that anyone with a knowledge of the subject is having a good laugh. However, it does meet your request for a laymans explanation - it couldn;t get much layer. :wink:

were there any new states from the work at cern?

Do these 5th and 6th states occur in nature as the first 4 do or are they 'theoretical'

Another thing, do the third to fifth occur in all elements?

Caveman,
Not that I am aware of, but I as noted, anything I know about this I learned from the web or the pages of New Scientist. Both condensates described above were produced working with small quantities of particles, at very low temperatures. I think the Bose Einstein condensate will crawl up the sides of its container, because it is completely frictionless. I suspect they both have some neat characteristics.

Billco,
the fifth and sixth have been produced in the laboratory. I do not believe there are any naturall occurences known. I do not know if it is thought possible such states might occur naturally.
All four natural states ought to be applicable to all elements.

Well until I can buy or make a kilo of these from a kilo of Iron I'm gonna stick to 4.

no billco. Youre gonna accept it right here, right now. If we cant get it in normal conditions doesnt change the fact they exists. 6 it is

Until I can confirm what you say [off-line] I'll mark them as 'provisional' and put them in the folder with 'Hawking radiation'.:wink:

Originally Posted by billco

Do these 5th and 6th states occur in nature as the first 4 do or are they 'theoretical'?

Bose-Einstein condensates and Fermionic condensates do exist in the form of superfluids and superconductors.

Also, the cores of neutron stars are believed to be superfluidic.

cheers,
wm

its easy to confirm them

billco what do u have against hawking? that he is better and more important than you even thou he is physicly incapistated?

Originally Posted by Zelos

its easy to confirm them

billco what do u have against hawking? that he is better and more important than you even thou he is physicly incapistated?

I have seen many theories and so called scientific 'facts' overturned in my time. I have merely through this, developed a healthy sceptisism.

Gallileo was a sceptic, Einstein was a sceptic. Probably everone else who ever overturned conventional beliefs as well.

There's no contest on the reallity of Bose Einstein Condensates but I've never heard of them refered to as states of matter(not to say they aren't).

5 states are generally considered to exist
gas, liquid, solid, plasma, liquid crystal

what about the state achieved during nucleosynthesis or are we callin it energy

I have seen many theories and so called scientific 'facts' overturned in my time. I have merely through this, developed a healthy sceptisism.

Gallileo was a sceptic, Einstein was a sceptic. Probably everone else who ever overturned conventional beliefs as well.

ok that i can accept.

Originally Posted by Zelos

I have seen many theories and so called scientific 'facts' overturned in my time. I have merely through this, developed a healthy sceptisism.

Gallileo was a sceptic, Einstein was a sceptic. Probably everone else who ever overturned conventional beliefs as well.

ok that i can accept.

Good, Cos here's another one I have just become aware of. The reason for lift in an airplane wing that we all know and love, has been disproved by NASA.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/wrong1.html

Well worth a read.