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About LinkBacksCan we using solar power to keep a beam of hydrogen growing and circling our planet.
The point being directing it towards possible objects threatening earth?
If so then how long vwould it take to get a ray strong enough to do the job?
December 11th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Can we using solar power to keep a beam of hydrogen growing and circling our planet.
The point being directing it towards possible objects threatening earth?
If so then how long vwould it take to get a ray strong enough to do the job?
Just read your question if it is clear
No, that would be impracticle. There are far simpler ways to protect us from those objects.
Its really several questions.Originally Posted by merumario
Can we collect hydrogen in space? (how?)
Can we store it in an orbit?
Can the hydrogen be used to effect the direction of moving targets?
Or rather: To what use can the orbiting hydrogen be put?
Whats the economy behind it?
Sure, but it isn't like it is abundant. Those regions that are abundant are rather easily to spot. As the matter effect, (no pun intended), the sources start to glow when the concentration is high enough.
Sure
To a certain extend yes
Probably none, maybe to influence earth's magnetic field if it were ionized, but that is about it.
Think about it, you want to put a ring up there, First of all it would have to be massive and contained enough not to be blown away by solar wind (which in itself will cost quite the infrastructure). Can you imagine what kind of civilization would require that? A Dyson type 2 at least.
It would be better, to me, to use the Earth as a giant generator by putting into orbit giant commutator sleeves with windings that would be able to use the Earth as the armature to create energy to send back to Earth through microwaves.
Thank you! Good reasoning. Slightly disappointing results but Im happy anyway. This thread is for all ppl interested in colonization of space. Keep on writing. Lets grow.Sure, but it isn't like it is abundant. Those regions that are abundant are rather easily to spot. As the matter effect, (no pun intended), the sources start to glow when the concentration is high enough.
Sure
To a certain extend yes
Probably none, maybe to influence earth's magnetic field if it were ionized, but that is about it.
Think about it, you want to put a ring up there, First of all it would have to be massive and contained enough not to be blown away by solar wind (which in itself will cost quite the infrastructure). Can you imagine what kind of civilization would require that? A Dyson type 2 at least.
COOL! Eh...do I mean "coil"?It would be better, to me, to use the Earth as a giant generator by putting into orbit giant commutator sleeves with windings that would be able to use the Earth as the armature to create energy to send back to Earth through microwaves.
Try and imagine the practical, The sheer amount of mass that would require such a contraption simply isn't present on this planet. We'd need to mine other planets. By the time we can do that, I hardly thing it would be practical anymore. Think of giant self replicating colonies of nanobats that swarm inside a planet for half a century and turn it into fresnel lenses so we can direct sunlight to further away planets in our galaxy (of less to ours) so that we can make these worlds habitable. Like a Europa moon on Jupiter made up entirly from liquid water. (or crashing large chunks of ice from it (provided there is no life on it) in the shape of meteorites upon mars and in the process create giant oceans and a second earth on Mars. (and let biology do the rest)
(though I realize that that would either require to blow up europa or direct small planetoides into its surface.)
The biggest obstacle to space colonisation is, I think, the economy. Ways must be found to create self sufficient colonies!
Producing more than is needed for survival. Obviously a spacestation is needed to transport things between Earth and the other space colonies. Eventually the solar system will packed with life...But in what order will things happen. What is the best step number two after an adequate space station orbiting Earth is working satisfactorily...whatever that is? Orbiting the Moon ,Mars and Venus?
Or is it better to go for the ground... Then Venus is out of the question. Will we ever establish anything on Venus land? Can Automated Machinery digging down into the ground survive there long enough to establish a colony under the ground? In general: How extreme conditions can be overcome? Is sundiving for machinery theoretically possible?
Is the trick to produce a higher skintemperature than the environment? Can the sond contain enough energy?
Could incoming heat be used to cool the interior? Better try Venus ground first huh? Or Earth in examining its interior by inspecting vulcanoes perhaps predicting earthquakes?
I happen to also think the travelling to other stars might use sunrays as a kind of "highway to the stars"My idea was (1) that such beams might transport matter in molecular form so starships...I hope starcities... need not carry resources or fuel within them. (2) Perhaps such rays also could "clear the way"? Friction is the worst obstacle for high speeds in space...Doubling speed multiplies friction with five! If it is possible to survive in the ray (energy for fighting heat is there) then perhaps friction is reduced along the ray?( Well perhaps its better to bend the ray so it doesnt touch the ship
IF it works then what speed limit is there left if the ship is free to accelerate continuously? Since time slows in the accelerating ship maybe nearby galaxies are no longer out of reach?
Just build a stargate to go to other planets, that way you won't need to worry about flying anywhere or needing to build space stations.
YES! Clifford D Simak in his "Time is theSimplest Thing" dreamed of the same thing....but ...eh... Im trying to REALIZE a dream so I try to find the shortest way.
Just build a stargate to go to other planets, that way you won't need to worry about flying anywhere or needing to build space stations.
Im doing a variation on the Dyson Theme
but I need som help with elementary physics.
Can light rays transport matter or not!
Is my direct question!
If they CAN then the universe is soon open for our inspection!
Unfortunately theres a darker side...
You figure it out yourselves im not in the mood of telling at the moment.
Most of the heat of the suns surface is due to hot ionized plasma. It should be possible to keep the plasma away from the probe with strong enough magnetic fields. This might keep the probe temperature below damage level.
GREAT! of course your opinion is not enough to stake my life on...but I already BELIEVED in sun diving!Most of the heat of the suns surface is due to hot ionized plasma. It should be possible to keep the plasma away from the probe with strong enough magnetic fields. This might keep the probe temperature below damage level.
Your opinion is EVIDENCE that I may be awake!
We build a Mini Dyson Sphere, then direct the resulting solar ray to the next stellar system and let a spaceship (Equipped to thrive ín heat) travel in the ray!
The ray hopefully will keep friction, enemies and other obstacles out of the ships way... the ship can continuously accelerate up to halfwaypoint... and decelerate from there.
Can you give us an estimate on how fast the journey would be if the target is our closest neighbour?
PS: PLEASE! Visit my other thread: How is a selfsupported space station constructed?
Here's a new angle on traveling to stars.
Uploaded e-crews for interstellar missions | KurzweilAI
Guys, guys, constructing a dyson sphere isn't so simple. Say, that we'd use some super material. Like a giant corundum crystal. one meter thick. Just for starters, and the spere would have to be 1.2 AU large (after all, we'd like to remain living on our planet) and in that sense we'll freeze all the other planets around us.
Then that would require 1.6199e+27 kilograms of mass. That is about the mass of Jupiter, our biggest planet! and that isn't even all usable resources. A Dyson sphere is not for nothing the epitone of any civilization as it requires an inter-galactic infrastructure to even build one. Let us first build engine's to even steer in intergalactic space before we even think about it.
No, is my direct answer. Matter consists of baryons and leptons. Light consists of photons.
Ah but can light rays not send information. i could make one ish. we arent there yet. technology
Last edited by fiveworlds; December 20th, 2012 at 06:01 PM.
I think you should make your answer more informative to the general reader.No, is my direct answer. Matter consists of baryons and leptons. Light consists of photons.
Theres no need to be cryptic to him.
He probably wants to know why the ray that puts the leaf on fire doesnt carry momentum to it...
Well not the matter itself no that would be silly but if you have the matter available at the destination
Light does confer momentum.I think you should make your answer more informative to the general reader.No, is my direct answer. Matter consists of baryons and leptons. Light consists of photons.
Theres no need to be cryptic to him.
He probably wants to know why the ray that puts the leaf on fire doesnt carry momentum to it...
Then it should be possible
You are absolutely correct. I also agree with your later comment that you might use the matter at the destination and the information encoded in the light to reconstitute the original. However, that is not what Sigurd asked and he asked it very directly.
And sigurd, I think the general reader is likely aware of this, as were you. When you ask a serious question in a serious manner and not as part of an elaborate process to provoke reactions I shall provide a detailed, informative and perhaps even entertaining response.
Thank You for entering the discussion. Im not suggesting we should proceed in the indicated manner. The humble beginning is to collect and distribute sunshine with moveable parabolic mirrors equipped with ion engines and internal computers for maneuvring and communication. Every mirror is a mini spaceship carrying itself and the mirror. An old dream is total automation...say automatic factories on the Moon and on Mercury producing mirrors and sending them out in space where they organise them selves according to a plan distributing solar energy to where its needed. Im not suggesting a solid sphere
I think of a growing forest of co operating mirrors. Collecting solar resources distributing it wherever we want it instead of letting it uselessly radiate in all directions.
Thank you. I appreciate your statement, but Im afraid you have misinterpreted things from the start:You are absolutely correct. I also agree with your later comment that you might use the matter at the destination and the information encoded in the light to reconstitute the original. However, that is not what Sigurd asked and he asked it very directly.
And sigurd, I think the general reader is likely aware of this, as were you. When you ask a serious question in a serious manner and not as part of an elaborate process to provoke reactions I shall provide a detailed, informative and perhaps even entertaining response.
Like an animal I cant change into another skin just to please the audience.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... and so are provocations from me. I can however admit that my opinion of...eh... moderating intellectual activity, is close to zero kelvin degrees. I would prefer a warmer climate but it is out of my control.
But again: Thanks for the offer. I seriously think it was well meant. But how would I know?... Well Ill be watching you...Zir
Incorrect. For six months of your membership we have been telling you exactly with what we have problems in your conduct here. You have flatly ignored them. That was your choice. Yet, after all that time, here we still are, trying to get you to behave. To what end? Again, your choice, but there won't be another six month of this. Of that I can assure you.
Thank you... my immediate thought was...gee the only way to make a mod speak the truth is for me to deny it...er...Im suggesting an armistice... So I dont want my reporting my reaction to be taken as an intended insult. My general stand IS and will remain: Truth hurts? So whats new?Light does confer momentum.I think you should make your answer more informative to the general reader.No, is my direct answer. Matter consists of baryons and leptons. Light consists of photons.
Theres no need to be cryptic to him.
He probably wants to know why the ray that puts the leaf on fire doesnt carry momentum to it...
So you dont realise you rarely answer questions? That you prefere telling me im wrong without showing where and how? I agree that you are not evil immoral creatures.Incorrect. For six months of your membership we have been telling you exactly with what we have problems in your conduct here. You have flatly ignored them. That was your choice. Yet, after all that time, here we still are, trying to get you to behave. To what end? Again, your choice, but there won't be another six month of this. Of that I can assure you.
But I am not and never was a TROLL! Im here to find ideas... to report what I think in the hope of getting eventual errors out of my system... But you have been of no help. Ever! You inform me that my sentences have no semantical content. You tell me in my face (ok that was not you but...er... IM a mindreader of sorts I can tell you want me to disappear) tell me in my face that you would like to "send me on vacation"... but the rules forbid you to act at moment. Well I dont believe in following rules out of fear of consequences so threats wont work unless you threat my innocent few friends. But i WOULD like us to come to some agreement ... fighting takes energy that could be put to better use...perhaps on your side as well. I suspect that the root of the problem is that my own thoughts in some cases are so distant from mainstreem thinking so they are believed to beprovocations and not worthy of attention:
WHAT? You say lifes origin is in the sun???? Troll your crazy! You should be banned! BAH!
So lets spend a few posts here in order to straighten things out:
What statements have I made that were annoying? I need to see them!
Lets check them one by one I have...er...perhaps at most a handful of thoughts
that I noticed provoked people.
Or wasnt it the semantical content but the "STYLE" in presenting them?
If so the case is hopeless.
Last edited by sigurdV; December 20th, 2012 at 08:18 PM.
to be edited
We can talk about it, but in your personal thread in Feedback here: http://www.thescienceforum.com/site-...gurdw-tsf.html.
I'll move all this stuff over there as well, but not now. I need some sleep!
You'll find none here I am afraid. Don't let the bullies get on your nerves, ignore the moderator's here, because they do everything you describe (with perfect semantics)
Read some of their signature, and you'll laugh your way into oblivion. This thread will be locked and trashed by the time you see it, like self pandering ones like this one.
This is not a democracy, and there is not even a constitution. This is far-west here. But I though scientific arguments would be the bullets. Instead you'll find denial and arrogance and a lot of emotive outburst.
This is a chat forum, and once you realize it, you'll see it is a perfectly well working and policed one
If I found a real science-forum, I'll let you know. Maybe science-forum is an oxymoron, but I hope to be wrong, so there is hope
Sigs right i was abit off topic to be honest i thought you were talking stargate.
Last edited by fiveworlds; December 21st, 2012 at 08:31 AM.
Go to SciForums...You'll find none here I am afraid. Don't let the bullies get on your nerves, ignore the moderator's here, because they do everything you describe (with perfect semantics
Read some of their signature, and you'll laugh your way into oblivion. This thread will be locked and trashed by the time you see it, like self pandering ones like this one.
This is not a democracy, and there is not even a constitution. This is far-west here. But I though scientific arguments would be the bullets. Instead you'll find denial and arrogance and a lot of emotive outburst.
This is a chat forum, and once you realize it, you'll see it is a perfectly well working and policed one
If I found a real science-forum, I'll let you know. Maybe science-forum is an oxymoron, but I hope to be wrong, so there is hope
Then come back here and make that speech.
Boing300 - if you are dissatisfied with this site, there is an easy solution (try to guess it).
If you feel you are being "bullied" raise it in Reported Posts, or contact a moderator by PM.
If you have issues with the ability of any (or all) moderators to perform their unpaid duties, complain to the Admin
Moderator says This is a Physics forum, please do not clutter it with complaints about a forum you joined voluntarily, and could just as easily leave
I have it ! The scientific one, add some tweak and balance, build more understanding. That is not the easy solution, science is not the easy way.
Me ? I am afraid I can't feel that. I miss some emotional state like fear. I am pretty fearless, and I have learned a long time ago that I can bullies other people without noticing it.
Beside If I see bullies hurting people, I act, and if they are moderators, what do you think I should report to ? You or the A-Team ?
You should not make so dramatic entries, because this is a classic phenomenon on internet. From moderator, it is the first time I see that, but then i have a life, kind of.
But I think it will not be the downfall of our civilization. Well, why do I feel like having said a stupid thing, right now ?
I never complains about people that do thing for free. I do complains about any people bulliying other (for free, of for money, it does not matter)
I don't complain about the forum, there are plenty of sensible and constructive people here. That is obvious, you should also look it that way.
Here is the definitive physics answer to this OP question .
Is is not impossible, but have tremendously negative EROEI. There are plenty of hydrogen on earth, so why bother ? We would have more sooner the possibility to transmute atom/quark soup then to have a space elevator which is the only apparatus needed to lower a little the EROEI, and more specifically flatten the gravity pit humanity as grown in the bottom of.
Same for mining asteroid an the like.
Thank for watching
Then why will the conferred momentum not transport atoms in space along the ray?Light does confer momentum.I think you should make your answer more informative to the general reader.No, is my direct answer. Matter consists of baryons and leptons. Light consists of photons.
Theres no need to be cryptic to him.
He probably wants to know why the ray that puts the leaf on fire doesnt carry momentum to it...
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