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Thread: Balancing entries: contacting ET by means of relay chat

  1. #1 Balancing entries: contacting ET by means of relay chat 
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    Imagine you send a message through space hoping that it will eventually reach a civilization a might lightyears away and it actually will reach them.
    Now, regardless of how many lightyears it will take for that alien reply, on their part, to reach us: isnt there something like Einsteins relativity?
    I mean, when an astronaut is to travel with lightspeed for, say, 1000 years, to a very distant region in space and decides to return to earth will he not come back to an Earth that has changed in a rather unsetteling anachronistic sense in the eye of that astronaut?
    Why would that not be different for bilateral "relay chat" between two civilizations many lightyears apart?
    If you, today, reply to a message received yesterday from a distant civilization, then perhaps the message alone has already been lost out of context with its sender when we receive it, let alone the alien over there receiving our reply to a message origanally send by a dinosaur having once lived on his planet. By the time the latter alien reads our reply we may have been evolved to a species that sees our sun explode.

    This, of course is merely my lay guess at what would happen. Could someone tell me how it REALLY would come to pass in terms of time and relativity?
    And if this is the best-case scenario, should we still want to pump tax money into SETI when the intergalactic mailman is not quite in a hurry.


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    I think it is a waste of time, but it is mainly private funding, so I don't care.


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    Good thing to hear this Seti-shite isn't tax-funded. I hope intelligent design education isn't either for that matter.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve555 View Post
    Imagine you send a message through space hoping that it will eventually reach a civilization a might lightyears away and it actually will reach them.
    Now, regardless of how many lightyears it will take for that alien reply, on their part, to reach us: isnt there something like Einsteins relativity?
    I mean, when an astronaut is to travel with lightspeed for, say, 1000 years, to a very distant region in space and decides to return to earth will he not come back to an Earth that has changed in a rather unsetteling anachronistic sense in the eye of that astronaut?
    Why would that not be different for bilateral "relay chat" between two civilizations many lightyears apart?
    If you, today, reply to a message received yesterday from a distant civilization, then perhaps the message alone has already been lost out of context with its sender when we receive it, let alone the alien over there receiving our reply to a message origanally send by a dinosaur having once lived on his planet. By the time the latter alien reads our reply we may have been evolved to a species that sees our sun explode.

    This, of course is merely my lay guess at what would happen. Could someone tell me how it REALLY would come to pass in terms of time and relativity?
    And if this is the best-case scenario, should we still want to pump tax money into SETI when the intergalactic mailman is not quite in a hurry.

    What you are talking about is just propagation delay. If you send a signal to a planet 10 ly away it will take ten years for the signal get there and another ten for us to receive a reply. You really don't need to take Relativity into account for this, just the fact that light travels at a set finite speed.

    we see the same effect just within our own Solar system. For instance, even at its closest, it would take more that 4 min for a signal to reach Mars and over 8 for a two way exchange. This is why probes landing on Mars have to handle the landing all on their own. You can't have someone on Earth land it by remote control if it takes at east 4 min before he can even see what's happening to the probe and another 4+ before any corrections he makes can take effect on the probe.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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    I know it takes 8 minutes (16 for an answer) to communicate with astronauts on the sun (so to speak). But when a spaceship travels 1000 years at lightspeed (or something just below that speed in uniform motion) to whereever region in the universe and it decides to head back to earth, then it will find the earth to have "disproportionally" changed in age. That spaceship is merely nothing other than information travelling just a slight less faster than light...so doesnt this phenomenon count for all "information"? I am not talking in terms of 4 minutes to mars. i am talking 400 lightyears from here. I dont see how there is any alien life "really" interesting to most people within our own galaxy. And the nearest start next to our sun is 4.35 light years away. The 8 minutes silence of that 16 minutes is given to an algorythm. So the further you travel in your spaceship from earth the more the earth gains age on you. But I wonder, what if you travel from earth at lightspeed velocity and the earth is travelling away from you at the same moment, instead of giving you "the wind in the back"? The universe is expanding like a balloon with galaxies drawn on it, isn't it?. Would it matter?

    If you travel from earth with lightspeed and you know that when you return to earth after several hundreds of years the earth will have seased to be like when you left it (even homo sapiens sapiens are gone), does did not incline that when i travel long enough away from earth that I will outlive the end of the universe from earths perspective?
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    the spaceship and earth paradox, aka twins paradox, is worked out using the Lorenz transform. you can't use this method with stuff travelling at lightspeed. So time dilation, length contraction and "mass" increase don't apply.

    but i'm no scientist.
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    the spaceship and earth paradox, aka twins paradox, is worked out using the Lorenz transform. you can't use this method with stuff travelling at lightspeed. So time dilation, length contraction and "mass" increase don't apply.

    but i'm no scientist.
    I know what you mean. But i am still waiting on the Neutrino report. I was merely assuming light speed, but I also said "somewhat below light speed" in previous messages. I am always speaking hypothetically. What would be the consequences of that in the context of the latter question?
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  9. #8  
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    But i am still waiting on the Neutrino report.
    what? the faster than light experiment that was found to be a dodgy connection?

    I was merely assuming light speed, but I also said "somewhat below light speed" in previous messages.
    i realise that. things below lightspeed you can use the lorenz transform and at lightspeed you can't.
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
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