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  1. #1 plasma 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    Plasma effects within the solar system
    claims:
    T
    he space surrounding the Sun, its corona and beyond, is a plasma. Indeed, much of all space is occupied by plasma - mostly in the dark current mode. The planets and their moons each carry an electric charge as they travel through this plasma.The plasma sea in which the solar system floats extends out to what is called the heliopause - where there is probably a double layer that separates our Sun's plasma from the lower voltage plasma that fills our arm of the Milky Way galaxy.
    In solar flares and coronal mass ejections (CME's), charged particles are thrown outward from the Sun. These flows constitute electrical currents. And what form do (Birkeland) currents take in plasmas? - They twist!
    reasonable?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Professor pyoko's Avatar
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    No, "most of space" is not plasma, it is a gas. A hot gas is not necessarily a plasma. What is a "plasma in a dark current mode"? This makes no sense. Is he talking about local space or "most of space"?

    If he means solar wind propagating much of the local space, then it is not necessarily plasma, although sometimes it is. It is charged particles (electrons and photons).

    I just feel like it is akin to saying "most of it is liquid water, only it is in the solid state". :P


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    Forum Freshman SciTourist's Avatar
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    Most of the universe is molecular and atomic hydrogen. At least 75% of the mass of the interstellar medium is hydrogen gas, not plasma.

    If the premise is wrong, is there any point in discussing the details?

    By the way, there are no peer-reviewed papers on the 'electric universe' hypothesis. Those promoting this hypothesis often refer to papers on plasma cosmology, which is a different idea that does not necessarily support the 'electric universe' hypothesis.
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    "The end of the evolution of the chemical elements was the spark that started another evolution journey the evolution of life on Earth." From The Cosmic History of The Elements by M. Eesa
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    Hello, this is my first post, and thought I may as well drop in here, as I think and hope I have something positive to add.

    If we look carefully at the papers that NASA frequently posts, I think it's pretty easy to see that they consider interplanetary space and the local interstellar medium to be filled with magnetic fields, electric fields, charges and neutral particles, all of which means plasma. Of course, that in itself does not satisfy the question posed in the OP.

    Recently I've been skimming the NAS 2012 Solar/Space Physics Decadal report on discoveries in the previous 10 years and the agenda they want to take on for the next 10 years. It's truly amazing how frequently the term "magnetism" shows up!

    I would like to post links to NASA and the National Academy of Sciences, if that is allowed for a new member. I will not ever be posting links to less than the most acceptable sources.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
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  6. #5  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotini View Post
    It's truly amazing how frequently the term "magnetism" shows up!
    I don't know why. The Earth has a magnetic field. The sun has a magnetic field. Many other bodies do (but not all).
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotini View Post

    I would like to post links to NASA and the National Academy of Sciences, if that is allowed for a new member. I will not ever be posting links to less than the most acceptable sources.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
    Hi Steve, and welcome

    yes, please post pertinent data and links

    rod
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  8. #7  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Hi Steve, and welcome

    yes, please post pertinent data and links

    rod
    Yes, that as well!
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  9. #8  
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    Solar and Space Physics: A Science for a Technological Society
    Here is a link that will enable you to browse/skim/download the 454 page 2012 NRC Solar/Space Physics Decadal report.

    For convenience, the broad discipline of solar and space physics, often referred to as heliophysics, is divided into the following three areas, each of which is described in much greater detail in separate chapters (8 though 10) of the report:

    ~ Sun and heliosphere (SH) - covers the physics of the outer regions of the sun and its expansion through interplanetary space;

    ~ Solar wind-magnetosphere interactions (SWMI) - deals with the interaction of the solar wind with magnetized bodies (principally Earth and other planets) and the resulting coupling to their underlying ionosphere or planetary surface;

    ~ Atmosphere-ionosphere-magnetosphere interactions (AIMI) - concerns the dynamics of planetary ionospheres due to solar, magnetospheric and atmospheric drivers and coupling.

    As discussed in table 2.1, each of these panels organized their work around 4 scientific challenges.


    TABLE 2.1 Solar and Space Physics Decadal Challenges

    The Sun and the Heliosphere

    SH-1 Understand how the sun generates the quasi-cyclical magnetic field that extends throughout the heliosphere.

    SH-2 Determine how the sun's magnetism creates its hot, dynamic atmosphere.

    SH-3 Determine how magnetic energy is stored and explosively released and how the resultant disturbances propagate through the heliosphere.

    SH-4 Discover how the sun interacts with the local interstellar medium.

    Solar Wind - Magnetosphere Interaction

    SWMI-1 Establish how magnetic reconnection is triggered and how it evolves to drive mass, momentum and energy transport.

    SWMI-2 Identify the mechanism that controls the production, loss, and energization of energetic particles in the magnetosphere.

    SWMI-3 Determine how coupling and feedback between the magnetosphere, ionosphere, and thermosphere govern the dynamics of the coupled system in response to the variable solar wind.

    SWMI-4 Critically advance the physical understanding of magnetospheres and their coupling to ionspheres and thermospheres by comparing models against observation from different magnetospheric systems.

    Atmosphere - Ionosphere - Magnetosphere Interactions

    AIMI-1 Understand how the ionosphere-thermosphere system responds to and regulates magnetospheric forcing over global, regional and local scales.

    AIMI-2 Understand the plasma-neutral coupling processes that give rise to local, regional and global-scale structures and dynamics in the AIM system.

    AIMI-3 Understand how forcing from the lower atmosphere via tidal, planetary, and gravity waves influences the ionosphere and thermosphere.

    AIMI-4 Determine and identify the causes for long-term (multi-decadal) changes in the AIM system.

    (Source: Pages 36, 37 of subject report)

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve

    Edit: When you delve into this, (there is much detail) and I'll post lots more, you'll find NASA is loaded to the gills with plasma physicists!

    Edit II: For those that prefer, here's a 70 minute video presentation of the subject report. One of the two chief authors/presenters is a plasma physicist.
    http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/video...a_id=150623751
    Last edited by Dotini; August 29th, 2012 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Add video verson, fix typos
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    Today the Radiation Belt Storm Probes (RBSP) were launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida. Their very practical and worthwhile mission is to study the Van Allen radiation belts with the goal of protecting future space missions and terrestrial infrastructure from space weather.

    Here is the solar/space physics back-story from NASA: NASA - The Electric Atmosphere: Plasma Is Next NASA Science Target

    Our day-to-day lives exist in what physicists would call an electrically neutral environment. Desks, books, chairs and bodies don't generally carry electricity and they don't stick to magnets. But life on Earth is substantially different from, well, almost everywhere else. Beyond Earth's protective atmosphere and extending all the way through interplanetary space, electrified particles dominate the scene. Indeed, 99% of the universe is made of this electrified gas, known as plasma.

    Plasmas seethe with complex movement. They generally flow along a skeletal structure made of invisible magnetic field lines, while simultaneously creating more magnetic fields as they move. Teasing out the rules that govern such a foreign environment – one that can only be studied from afar – lies at the heart of understanding a range of events that make up space weather, from giant explosions on the sun to potentially damaging high energy particles in near-Earth environs.

    To distinguish between a host of theories developed over the years on plasma movement in those near-Earth environs, RBSP scientists have designed a suite of instruments to answer three broad questions. Where do the extra energy and particles come from? Where do they disappear to, and what sends them on their way? How do these changes affect the rest of Earth's magnetic environment, the magnetosphere? In addition to its broad range of instruments, the RBSP mission will make use of two spacecraft in order to better map out the full spatial dimensions of a particular event and how it changes over time.

    Scientists want to understand not only the origins of electrified particles – possibly from the solar wind constantly streaming off the sun; possibly from an area of Earth's own outer atmosphere, the ionosphere – but also what mechanisms gives the particles their extreme speed and energy.


    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Plasma effects within the solar system
    claims:
    T
    he space surrounding the Sun, its corona and beyond, is a plasma. Indeed, much of all space is occupied by plasma - mostly in the dark current mode. The planets and their moons each carry an electric charge as they travel through this plasma.The plasma sea in which the solar system floats extends out to what is called the heliopause - where there is probably a double layer that separates our Sun's plasma from the lower voltage plasma that fills our arm of the Milky Way galaxy.
    In solar flares and coronal mass ejections (CME's), charged particles are thrown outward from the Sun. These flows constitute electrical currents. And what form do (Birkeland) currents take in plasmas? - They twist!
    reasonable?
    As we have seen, the solar system is indeed suffused with plasma, magnetic and electric fields, charged particles and electric currents. But is this sufficient information to answer the OP's essential question as clearly in the affirmative? I think we have to qualify a few things first. At very first glance, we have to know that the vocabulary in use, Birkeland currents and double layers, is slightly different to the equivalent terms employed by NASA plasma physicists. But more importantly, we need to understand that Dr. Scott and his associates are part of an interdisciplinary natural philosophy movement which does not equate at all precisely to currently accepted mainstream views in some critical areas not addressed in the OP. A very basic element of the EU philosophy, the operation of the sun's core and origin of its power, remains to be quantified and verified empirically. Some other tenets, such as the recent catastrophic reorganization of the solar system, may not ever be verifiable. In my opinion, we must cite only peer reviewed and published sources if we are to adhere to the very highest standards established in mainstream science. In this way change occurs but only slowly. On the other hand, if we are prepared to immediately deal with the edgy and controversial, we must include and consider their insights. A lot depends upon the particular rules and standards set by the forum and its moderators.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
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