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Thread: Love the Quantum Bomb

  1. #1 Love the Quantum Bomb 
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    So I was reading Scientific America, and read a topic called: 'Weirdest of the Weird'. It included some of the interesting phenomena in Quantum Mechanics. One of them is the known as the Elitzur–Vaidman bomb tester ( see here: Elitzur )


    I seem to get the idea a bit, it's basically a manipulation of the wave function, but I would like to have an expert to make things more lucid for me. Wikipedia didn't get to the detail that's the most bewildering.

    Please discuss!


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    LOL such a fascinating phenomenon received zero comment...


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    Right, I'm not sure I really understand the experiment, however that said, there was a comment on the wiki explanation of the interpritation which I do find rather thought provoking. I must say though I'm still some what skeptical of how this is proved.

    "One conceptual way to understand this phenomenon is through the Everett many-worlds interpretation. This interpretation of quantum physics posits that whenever multiple outcomes are possible, every possible outcome in fact occurs, because the entire universe splits into multiple copies at that point, in each of which one of the possible outcomes has occurred. The parallel universes are completely independant except for the multiple copies (one in each universe) of the particle which caused the split, which can interact with each other giving rise to quantum effects."

    If the idea of possible potential other universes along the lines of 'multiverse theory' that every possible possibility does somewhere exist in an other universe then it proves definitively that we can't interact these other universes. It would also have implications for the possibility and probability that infinity could exist.
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    I'm not expert too, but here's what I get:

    If there's NO bomb: you see light at C and no-light at D.
    If there's a bomb!: you still see ^ (light at C and no-light at D)

    So... what does this silly thing mean?:
    Probabilistically: "seeing light at C and no-light at D" represent 3 phenomenon:
    1) there's no bomb,
    2) the light choose upper path,
    3) the light choose lower path,
    *(all 3 phenomenon shows same result at C and D, except that 1 out of 3 event makes the bomb explode).

    How can we use it?
    Probabilistically: if you put a bomb and it doesn't explode, then there are 1/3 chance (33% chance) its NOT because the bomb is dud but because "light choose upper path".




    Moar funny:Light choose upper path and bomb is not dud. How come soo lucky? Because the bomb did explode in other reality making this world lucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Right, I'm not sure I really understand the experiment, however that said, there was a comment on the wiki explanation of the interpritation which I do find rather thought provoking. I must say though I'm still some what skeptical of how this is proved.

    "One conceptual way to understand this phenomenon is through the Everett many-worlds interpretation. This interpretation of quantum physics posits that whenever multiple outcomes are possible, every possible outcome in fact occurs, because the entire universe splits into multiple copies at that point, in each of which one of the possible outcomes has occurred. The parallel universes are completely independent except for the multiple copies (one in each universe) of the particle which caused the split, which can interact with each other giving rise to quantum effects."

    If the idea of possible potential other universes along the lines of 'multiverse theory' that every possible possibility does somewhere exist in an other universe then it proves definitively that we can't interact these other universes. It would also have implications for the possibility and probability that infinity could exist.
    An interesting idea it is indeed. The first time I heard it was on The Elegant Universe (a good multi-hour program), and I've heard it mentioned a lot in programs on String theory since, though I'm not sure how it specifically relates to the field.

    As for infinity, what exactly are you asking concerning its existence?
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    The many-world interpretation could be used to undertand this experiment better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by halorealm View Post

    An interesting idea it is indeed. The first time I heard it was on The Elegant Universe (a good multi-hour program), and I've heard it mentioned a lot in programs on String theory since, though I'm not sure how it specifically relates to the field.

    As for infinity, what exactly are you asking concerning its existence?
    Ok where to start, right the idea of infinity is premised on the idea that everything possible and anything possible that can happen must happen if given infinite space and time, since space and time are interchangeable then if infinite dimension exists then so follows must infinite time.

    Now if we can interact with other universes there must be some out there where things played out different, and there must be some out there that we can remember interacting with, well since neither you or I can't remember interacting with other universes then there cannot be infinity, that is if we were able to interact with them, this is because there must also be an infinite number of different universes such that there must be at least some we remember interacting with.

    If however it is proved that we cannot interact with other universes then it still leaves open the possibility that infinity may be possible to exist.
    Though this way of thinking gets a bit murky it is interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Ok where to start, right the idea of infinity is premised on the idea that everything possible and anything possible that can happen must happen if given infinite space and time, since space and time are interchangeable then if infinite dimension exists then so follows must infinite time.

    Now if we can interact with other universes there must be some out there where things played out different, and there must be some out there that we can remember interacting with, well since neither you or I can't remember interacting with other universes then there cannot be infinity, that is if we were able to interact with them, this is because there must also be an infinite number of different universes such that there must be at least some we remember interacting with.

    If however it is proved that we cannot interact with other universes then it still leaves open the possibility that infinity may be possible to exist.
    Though this way of thinking gets a bit murky it is interesting.
    I don't get your interpretation of "dimensions". In one sense, you're talking about alternate universes i.e. universes in the set of all possible universes excluding our own. In another sense, you're talking about geometric degrees of freedom (this is where space and time are relevant). But to extend space and time solely based on another sense of the word is invalid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by halorealm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Ok where to start, right the idea of infinity is premised on the idea that everything possible and anything possible that can happen must happen if given infinite space and time, since space and time are interchangeable then if infinite dimension exists then so follows must infinite time.

    Now if we can interact with other universes there must be some out there where things played out different, and there must be some out there that we can remember interacting with, well since neither you or I can't remember interacting with other universes then there cannot be infinity, that is if we were able to interact with them, this is because there must also be an infinite number of different universes such that there must be at least some we remember interacting with.

    If however it is proved that we cannot interact with other universes then it still leaves open the possibility that infinity may be possible to exist.
    Though this way of thinking gets a bit murky it is interesting.
    I don't get your interpretation of "dimensions". In one sense, you're talking about alternate universes i.e. universes in the set of all possible universes excluding our own. In another sense, you're talking about geometric degrees of freedom (this is where space and time are relevant). But to extend space and time solely based on another sense of the word is invalid.

    I wouldn't take that too seriously, I didn't do the best job of explaining, also I was reaching somewhat. There was some big leaps of supposition to get to that conclusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by halorealm View Post
    I don't get your interpretation of "dimensions". In one sense, you're talking about alternate universes i.e. universes in the set of all possible universes excluding our own. In another sense, you're talking about geometric degrees of freedom (this is where space and time are relevant). But to extend space and time solely based on another sense of the word is invalid.

    I wouldn't take that too seriously, I didn't do the best job of explaining, also I was reaching somewhat. There was some big leaps of supposition to get to that conclusion.
    I know. My interpretation wasn't so sound either. Ignoring the picky details, you were basically saying that it the existence of infinite universes is possible. Right?
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    No, what I was try to say was that if it is correct that infinity exists, and also infinite other univeres it has to be the case that we can't cross from one universe to the other.
    If for example infinite universes did exist, that would mean that everything that could be possible would be played out in one or other of them. So that would mean that in one other usinverse there must some interaction with our own universe that we would all remember.

    Since this didn't happen, I don't remember us interacting with another universe, then it means a.) there cannot be infinite other universes or b.) it is not and will not ever be possible to interact with other universes.

    So to get to the leap I was trying to make from the interpritation of the experiment is that if it does point to us not being able to actually interact with other univeres then it still leaves open the possibility that infinity might exist.

    If the contrary ever occurs and it is ever proved we can interact with other universe then we are back to a.).

    Well that's what I was trying to say if you can follow the logic.

    As for your interpritation, well at least you could understand the experiment, which was more than me.
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    You know there's also the backwards time interpretation.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    You know there's also the backwards time interpretation.
    I would be more than happy to discuss it but I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that concept so you'll have to explain first.
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    I was also wondering why there are dimensions at all. Why exactly are they here?
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    As a quantum-philosopher who doesn't like the Multiverse I'll offer and Copenhagen interpretation.

    The idea is actually rather simple, let's say a dud is an observer that either observes, or doesn't at all. If it doesn't observe it is a dud, otherwise it isn't.
    Then the entire thing just becomes the double slit experiment all over again. And the interferomoter is only there to make a spatial seperation possible to spatially adapt the dimensions of an observer. But the idea is the same.

    If there is no observation, light, and for that matter all particles. Will follow all possible routes. In this case upper and lower. And hence will show a self interference patern.
    When one checks whether it follows slit one or two. (with the use of a bomb) We detemnistically have only 2 possible outcomes for up and down, yes or no. And with the yes, the bomb explodes, and with the no, it must have followed the other path. And we can see this at the interferometer as no interference but just a beam spot.

    One does have to take note that there is no way to accuratly know what the outcome of a single event will be. Just the statistics.
    If you want to understand this better, just look up the double slit experiment. It is a well explained effect on the web.
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