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Thread: gravitational force

  1. #1 gravitational force 
    Forum Freshman Seraphimas's Avatar
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    So any object with mass has gravity. Does this gravity (pull) also exert a push? And how does that affect space-time? I guess what I'm asking is: does gravity push or pull space-time? Does it stretch or compact it? I imagine it should have to do both, it cannot be stretched without being compacted somewhere, but in the immediate area of the object in question?


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    There are lots of planets which has less and less gravity and i seriously believe there are some which has no gravity i dont think it has anything to do with mass or rotation there is something else there


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    No planet can have no gravity. That's just silly. Gravity is needed to hold the planet together!
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphimas View Post
    So any object with mass has gravity. Does this gravity (pull) also exert a push? And how does that affect space-time? I guess what I'm asking is: does gravity push or pull space-time? Does it stretch or compact it? I imagine it should have to do both, it cannot be stretched without being compacted somewhere, but in the immediate area of the object in question?
    Gravity only pulls, never pushes. It causes a curvature (not "compression" or "stretch") of space-time which causes changes in motion which we interpret as the force of gravity.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Gravity only pulls, never pushes. It causes a curvature (not "compression" or "stretch") of space-time which causes changes in motion which we interpret as the force of gravity.
    There is an object in cosmology called a vacuum domain wall. Objects in fre-fall near such a wall will accelerate away from th wall. In his sense gravity does push.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphimas View Post
    So any object with mass has gravity.
    Yes. It is said that the source of gravity is mass. To be precise the source of gravity is active gravitational mass. Such mass is completely defined in terms of the stress-energy-momentum tensor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphimas View Post
    Does this gravity (pull) also exert a push?
    It depends on the exact distribution of matter. In some instances, such as vacuum domain walls, the active gravitational mass is negative and, as a result, it pushes matter away from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphimas View Post
    And how does that affect space-time?
    Suppose a object is in free-fall outside our atmosphere. He'd be ate rest in his own inertial frame of reference. His spacetime is in free-fall too. In that sense his spacetime is in free-fall. Also, when a black hole is rotating it drags spacetime around with it. In the case of the vacuum domain wall gravity pushes spacetime away from it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphimas View Post
    So any object with mass has gravity. Does this gravity (pull) also exert a push? And how does that affect space-time? I guess what I'm asking is: does gravity push or pull space-time? Does it stretch or compact it? I imagine it should have to do both, it cannot be stretched without being compacted somewhere, but in the immediate area of the object in question?
    Attraction of particle shapes dimensional space, because when the distance approaches zero at infinite attraction - the gathering space and changing direction of time is multiplies the space, so even in the most remote part , the directions have a replacement time and pushes. And creates a circular for a time
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim View Post
    changing direction of time
    Time does not "change direction". Why do repeatedly post stuff you make up? Why don't you learn some science instead?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    no, if u want to contradict the fact of gravitational force then i can't say much. but its still known as Attractive forces between any two objects. In this whole universe THE PULL of gravitation has not been seen. How you are asking the question? do u have seen PULL force? Its not known yet. got it? and yes the time is inversely proportional to the mass of two objects. Also Its gives the KEY IDEA to TIME TRAVELLING.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR_LENZ View Post
    In this whole universe THE PULL of gravitation has not been seen.
    Really? What is keeping me in my chair then?
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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim View Post
    changing direction of time
    Time does not "change direction". Why do repeatedly post stuff you make up? Why don't you learn some science instead?
    in zero size time flip \ reversed
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  13. #12  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim View Post
    in zero size time flip
    fnurf puggle wumpus
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR_LENZ View Post
    no, if u want to contradict the fact of gravitational force then i can't say much. but its still known as Attractive forces between any two objects. In this whole universe THE PULL of gravitation has not been seen. How you are asking the question? do u have seen PULL force? Its not known yet. got it? and yes the time is inversely proportional to the mass of two objects. Also Its gives the KEY IDEA to TIME TRAVELLING.
    At the edge of the universe the push of gravity called dark matter
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR_LENZ View Post
    no, if u want to contradict the fact of gravitational force then i can't say much. but its still known as Attractive forces between any two objects. In this whole universe THE PULL of gravitation has not been seen. How you are asking the question? do u have seen PULL force? Its not known yet. got it? and yes the time is inversely proportional to the mass of two objects. Also Its gives the KEY IDEA to TIME TRAVELLING.
    Gravity is a push operation back in time, and push have more simply explained
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    Unfortunately this thread is turning into gibberish, and most definately not physics. I am going to trim out some of the trash and see if I can salvage it.
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    I just though that considering Newton's third law, gravity ought to have an opposing force. If gravity is a field then maybe there is a positive and negative side. And even though mass curves space, it is also inherently in space, space runs through matter. There couldn't be a curve without a compression or stretch. I'm thinking it has something to do with the speed of said object which keeps it from altering its form in a recognizable way. Or simply the fact that it is in motion. But how exactly does mass warp space-time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim View Post
    At the edge of the universe the push of gravity called dark matter
    Dark matter is thought to exist throughout the universe, not at the edge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphimas View Post
    I just though that considering Newton's third law, gravity ought to have an opposing force. If gravity is a field then maybe there is a positive and negative side. And even though mass curves space, it is also inherently in space, space runs through matter. There couldn't be a curve without a compression or stretch. I'm thinking it has something to do with the speed of said object which keeps it from altering its form in a recognizable way. Or simply the fact that it is in motion. But how exactly does mass warp space-time?
    Gravity is not like magnetism. Mass attracts (more properly, bends space) toward it. It's not like magnetism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    What is keeping me in my chair then?
    You,re specific mass is too high to start drifting as a Helium balloon :-).
    Plus you,re chair is apparently strong enough.
    Last edited by Ghrasp; July 6th, 2012 at 02:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne View Post
    Gravity is not like magnetism. Mass attracts (more properly, bends space) toward it. It's not like magnetism.
    There is an analogy between them though. Te buzzword is gravitomagnetism. There's an article about this in the American Journal of Physics

    Analogy between general relativity and electrodynamics for slowly moving particles in weak gravitational field, Edward G. Harris, Am. J. Phys., 59(5), May 1991
    Starting from the equations of general relativity, equations similar to those of the electromagnetic theory are derived. It is assumed that the particles are slowly moving (v << c), and the gravitational field is sufficiently weak that non-linear terms in Einstein's equations can be neglected. For static fields, the analogy to electrostatics and magnetostatics is very close. Results are compared with those of a previous derivation by Braginsky, Caves and Thorne [Phys. Rev. D 15, 2047-2068 (1997)]. These results lead to very simple derivations of the Lense-Thirring precession [Phys. Z. 19, 156-163 (1918) and the spin curvature force of Papepetrou [Proc. R. Soc. London Ser. A 209, 248-258 (1951)] and Pirani [Acta Phys. Pol. 15, 389-405 (1956)].
    See also - Gravitoelectromagnetism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne View Post
    Mass attracts toward it

    It as a mutual orbit center right ?
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    If the objects are in orbit around the barycenter of their mutual system. In any case Einstein rules, and Newton gives a reasonable approximation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim View Post
    At the edge of the universe the push of gravity called dark matter
    Dark matter is thought to exist throughout the universe, not at the edge.
    As i see it what you call universe is like a limited ara neer ather universe sperd like bubels and because you look at restrected and runde ara in the middel it subtract the far forces from raund direction
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    What does fesnickelpun droblinser thwrtroogms mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne View Post
    What does fesnickelpun droblinser thwrtroogms mean?
    You probely traslate it from hebrow
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    I start to remeber that einstein spoke translation of doich or germany
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    And " new tune " sood sunde funny ( heard )
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR_LENZ View Post
    In this whole universe THE PULL of gravitation has not been seen. How you are asking the question? do u have seen PULL force? Its not known yet. got it? and yes the time is inversely proportional to the mass of two objects. Also Its gives the KEY IDEA to TIME TRAVELLING.
    What complete and utter nonsense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim View Post
    At the edge of the universe the push of gravity called dark matter
    Dark matter is thought to exist throughout the universe, not at the edge.
    As i see it what you call universe is like a limited ara neer ather universe sperd like bubels and because you look at restrected and runde ara in the middel it subtract the far forces from raund direction
    Dark matter is thought to exist around galaxies, and causes them to rotate differently to how they would rotate if it were not there. You are making no sense. This is nothing to do with what I am calling the observable universe, it is to do with you either misunderstanding dark matter or dark energy, (which is what you probably meant). Both exist throughout the universe however, and are not thought to be concentrated at the edge of anything.
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    ohhhhhh i'm very sorry!!! i just written PULL instead of PUSH.... Sorry for that!!
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    Ohhhhhhhh yes!!! i'm sorry!! i wrote PULL instead of PUSH............Sorry for this one. but statement is correct
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR_LENZ View Post
    Ohhhhhhhh yes!!! i'm sorry!! i wrote PULL instead of PUSH............Sorry for this one. but statement is correct
    Well, makes more sense now. Time being inversely proportional to mass is still utter nonsense, though !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR_LENZ View Post
    Ohhhhhhhh yes!!! i'm sorry!! i wrote PULL instead of PUSH............Sorry for this one. but statement is correct
    Well, makes more sense now. Time being inversely proportional to mass is still utter nonsense, though !
    I wonder!!!! Flow of time depends on mass.!!! don't you know??
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICTOR_LENZ View Post
    I wonder!!!! Flow of time depends on mass.!!! don't you know??
    Are you talking about space-time curvature in GR ?
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    Einstein and Newton are both fundamentally from the same field. Newtons ideals consist of things relative to us here on Earth from our viewpoints. Where as Einstein's theories didn't necessarily have to be based on Earth and could compare objects not bound by the standards and limitations here, namely: relativity and the speed of light. But even light must have some relation, as it can't escape black holes, which opens up another slew of questions. But as to the original question: Is gravity a cause or an effect? And what exactly is it's effect?
    The unexamined life is not worth living. - Socrates
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  37. #36  
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    This thread has deteriorated into nonsense. Seraphimas, once you have received a reasonable answer to your last question I intend to lock the thread to prevent infestation by nutters.
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  38. #37  
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    Newton worked in different time, different system for math (particularly gonio) consensus.

    As this Newton Pi equation : Pi/6 = arcsin 1/2.
    As far as I know Newton didn,t use radials and this equation in original (this one is translated to current gonio convention I suppose) can,t have had radials for pi (as in pi= pi radials).

    Another equation/formula for pi (only works on calculators using degrees ): pi = (tan1/2) * 360 or : 2pi = (tan 1/1)* 360.
    Last edited by Ghrasp; July 11th, 2012 at 05:36 AM.
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    if black holes pull things in and dont let them escape, then what are white holes
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    Hypothetical.

    The idea is that the matter which goes into the singularity emerges elsewhere in space. Or another universe, take your pick.
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    Typology, I asked you to start your own thread. I will now move this comment and the last few to a new thread in the New Hypothesis section. I will ask again, do not discuss your ideas in the main sections.

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/new-h...-universe.html
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    I'm no longer involved in this thread.

    typology
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