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Thread: Antimatter bomb?

  1. #1 Antimatter bomb? 
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
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    So given the fact that we now have the ability to contain antimatter better then ever before, given say 10-20 years do you think we will be able to build an antimatter bomb? What would one speculate the yeild would be on such a device?


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  3. #2 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
    JX
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    So given the fact that we now have the ability to contain antimatter better then ever before, given say 10-20 years do you think we will be able to build an antimatter bomb? What would one speculate the yeild would be on such a device?
    I know I posted this in the other anti-matter thread too, but I thought I'd repeat it just in case you didn't see the other one:

    Quote Originally Posted by Locke
    If you are really interested in anti-matter, I suggest reading Dan Brown's prequel to The Da Vinci Code, it's called Angels & Demons. It's just as good at Da Vinci Code, with the same main character. As always, I strongly endorse what Dan Brown claims in his book (besides the actual fictional story and characters). Brown researches his books to an extend not many understand. In Angels & Demons he talks about anti-matter, CERN (which is a real company), and an anti-matter bomb. Interestingly enough, it also deals with the Vatican and a new pope, but thats just part of the fictional side.


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    So instead of thinking "matter-antimatter energy reactor for clean energy", every person I've seen thinks "antimatter bomb with which to kill people and stiffen my penis and ego with".

    It's all about the killing. All about the violence. Never about constructive ends. Never about peace and order.

    It's times like this I am ashamed of my homo sapiens brethren.
    Sciforums Refugee.
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  5. #4  
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    At the moment it is prohibitively expensive to create antimatter. We only have about a quater-gram of the stuff, at CERN. Even so, that is enough to make a 60megaton bomb, somone said.
    Up the workers!
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero
    So instead of thinking "matter-antimatter energy reactor for clean energy", every person I've seen thinks "antimatter bomb with which to kill people and stiffen my penis and ego with".

    It's all about the killing. All about the violence. Never about constructive ends. Never about peace and order.

    It's times like this I am ashamed of my homo sapiens brethren.
    No dude, I'm all for that. Trust me I'm the biggest treehugger here, it's just that realistically, if antimatter could be produced in greater quantities, you really think the governments gonna be producing a clean energy source? Not with George W. in office that's for sure.
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  7. #6 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locke
    If you are really interested in anti-matter, I suggest reading Dan Brown's prequel to The Da Vinci Code, it's called Angels & Demons. It's just as good at Da Vinci Code, with the same main character. As always, I strongly endorse what Dan Brown claims in his book (besides the actual fictional story and characters). Brown researches his books to an extend not many understand. In Angels & Demons he talks about anti-matter, CERN (which is a real company), and an anti-matter bomb. Interestingly enough, it also deals with the Vatican and a new pope, but thats just part of the fictional side.
    I’m afraid I have to disagree. Dan Brown writes good, exciting books. Unfortunately his “research” seems to be non-existent. He usually makes all sorts of mistakes that even a simple google search would have easily prevented. I definitely would not recommend a Dan Brown book to anyone who wants to actually learn about a subject.

    For example, in “Angels and Demons” (a book about an anti-matter bomb) Dan Brown repeatedly states that "antimatter produces no pollution or radiation". I can't imagine where he found this 'fact', since actually radiation is the *sole product* of matter/antimatter annihilation. Anyone who survived the blast of an anti-matter explosion would still face a serious risk of death from radiation poisoning, much like with a nuclear weapon.

    He then goes on to say that "A single gram of antimatter contains the energy of a 20-kiloton nuclear bomb - the size of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima." Actually bringing a gram of antimatter into contact with matter would produce a roughly 40-kiloton explosion, and the bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was only around 10-13 kilotons (the 20 kiloton bomb was dropped on Nagasaki).

    Sadly, pretty much all of his books are like this. “The De Vinci Code” is full of bogus historical information that any serious historian would laugh at. My friend who is a computer science major had to stop reading “Digital Fortress” because he got too annoyed with Brown’s constant mistakes about computers and cryptography.
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  8. #7 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
    JX
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    Understandibly there are going to be errors in a book that is describing real information on pretty much every page. For there to be absolutely no errors would have taken him many more years of research, writing, and double checking, which obviously isn't the point to a book. Many, many people had no idea about CERN, it's projects, antimatter, and other information that he gives his readers in the form of a fictional book that's easy to read because it's so damn good. Look, I'm sorry that he got a couple facts wrong, but he's only human. Considering how much of the book is actually factually correct I would call it a success on his part.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    What would one speculate the yeild would be on such a device?
    Well, given that antimatter reacts, as was previously said, by complete annihilation, the energy produced by a given mass of antimatter is equal to the combined masses of the matter/antimatter multiplied by the speed of light squared, as in that famous equation. :wink:
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  10. #9 re:geodesic 
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    Geodesic is correct, your output energy is calculated by E=MC^2 exactly.
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    besides.. antimatter reacts with ANY matter..it would have to be suspended in a PERFECT vacuume. its not like you can grab a handful and chuck it at your neighbor
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  13. #12  
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    hmm a miss calculalion/accident and a chain reaction might occur turning the earth into a blackhole maybe,that woulds suck=literaly
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    I think its possible, if we truely still hav'nt grown up enough by then to even realise how insanely stupid you would have to be to allow construction of one.
    "The present is theirs ; the future, for which I really work , is mine." Nikola Tesla
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    An Anti-matter bomb would be the end of mankind as we know it. Since matter and Anti-matter anhililate eachother when they come in contact with one another and if the bomb were big enough it would probably expose the earth mantle (make an enormous hole) and ruin everybodys day.
    I don't think that the reaction of the explosion would ever stop...
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishStu
    I don't think that the reaction of the explosion would ever stop...
    Right and wrong.
    True, the political reactions of such an explosion would reverbate down the centuries.
    However, the explosion itself would be over in a fraction of a second, ending as soon as the anti-matter had anihilated an equal mass of matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by countdown
    hmm a miss calculalion/accident and a chain reaction might occur turning the earth into a blackhole maybe,that woulds suck=literaly
    I don't think you understand what a black hole is...

    Wikipedia Article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes
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  18. #17 Wouldn't be practical 
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    It wouldn't be economical to use antimatter in bombs. You can't find antimatter lying around in nature the way you can find Uranium. It has to be created, and that takes just as much energy as you get from the reaction. Besides, you'd need to keep it in an electromagnetic trap in perfect vacuum, which would be a real energy hog too. Plutonium is easier to manufacture, store, and use, and has a higher yield-per-€ ratio. And that's not going to change anytime soon.
    And God said: Div(E) = \rho / \epsilon_0, Curl(E) = - \partial(B,t), Div(B) = 0, Curl(B) = \mu_0 (j + \epsilon_0 \partial(E,t)). And there was light.

    [...]

    And thus God sent forth Man from the Garden of Eden after a heated discussion of dresscodes and eating habits.
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  19. #18  
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    Actually antimatter is a ruinous business.

    In perfect conditions, a gram of antimatter should be created by "piling together" 1xc2 ergs. Yet that's not all.

    First, matter and antimatter are created simultaneously, so, to crate a gram of antimatter, you also should create a gram of matter. Now the bill are 2xc2 ergs.

    But, wait a minute... aren't we creating matter and antimatter together? That may be a trouble. Nae, we have to separate them -and separate them fast. So we need some enegy to discriminate the particles and antiparticles as they are created in our "ergs pumping". The fastest and easiest way, is to fill up the place with a big elecromagnetic field which will draw positive loaded particles to the negaitve pole and vice-versa

    Done. And so what? Now we've got positive particles in one place and negative ones in another. Err... this means, we got protons and positrons versus anti-protons and electrons. Well, now we got stuck again. A proton will repel a positron. An anti-proton will repel an electron. So now we have to seperate the particles (using even more energy) so anti-particles buld anti-atoms and particles build ordinary atoms. Well, it is easy to seperate proton-sized particles from from electron-sized particles, any good particle accelerator will do the work. The trouble is that the particles end out with a heap of energy. They just don't want to stick together as atoms. We need to "cool" them down. Guess what we'll use? Yes, yet-even-more energy. When they're sloeed-down enough, we may be able to let them get together so they make (eventually!) our precious atoms (and anti-atoms).

    So eventually we got hydrogen and "anti-hydrogen", made of a proton and a a electron and an anti-proton and a positron respectively. Let's forget about heavier atoms, the more particles the more troubles. Now we just shall make sure that anti-hydrogen doesn't touches anything... spending energy in the process too.

    Now, how's about the bill? We used 2xc2 ergs to a start. We used energy to seperate the particles by electric charge. Then we used energy to separate them by weight, and energy to "slow down" them enough to join into atoms. And we'll be spending energy as long as the antimatyer needs to be contained. And we still haven't accounted for our good old entropy... taking its share of useless heat all along the processes. I bet it would be very difficult to attain a succes ratio (proficency) in matter-building of a 10%. This meaning that we should use (100/10)=10 x 2 x c2 ergs of energy... plus the oher (unaccounted) amounts of energy required.

    My bet is, if we got to put together 20 x c2 ergs, the best we can do is just drop them on the target rather than bother ourselves with the antimater nonsense. A laser can get a 20% proficency (4 x c2 ergs) any time of day and that's better than the silly antimatter with its maximum 2 xc2 yield. 8)
    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” -Charles Darwin
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    1. we would need antimatter the size of a country to destroy a country (think of equivalent exchange)
    2. by the time were either stupid or smart enough to do that we probably would have left earth... lol
    AND
    3. as soon as it touches the oxygen if u take it out of a vacuum(space/no matter) it would dissapear... taking the oxygen with it
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  21. #20 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques.X
    Considering how much of the book is actually factually correct I would call it a success on his part.
    And exactly how much is that, please? I haven't read the book, but we have just heard that the physics is doubtful and the IT inaccuracies were enough to put a computer professional off the book.

    Is there one subject area in which Brown gets it right, and can be confirmed by the relevant professional? Or even just claims to be?

    Tell me it's an interesting work of fiction, and I'll take your word for that. But "actually factually correct" is a claim which, normally, requires some substantiation.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichisato
    1. we would need antimatter the size of a country to destroy a country (think of equivalent exchange)
    Only if you are so filled with hatred that you want to actually annihilate that country.

    Not (1) "kill the entire population of that country", not (2) "destroy its infrastructure and all biological life within its territory, including its territorial waters", but (3) really annihilate it.

    The amount of energy released in the process would easily do the first two to the entire Earth, including your own country - whichever that might be. I don't know what you mean by "equivalent exchange" in this context, but surely there wouldn't be much to exchange afterwards.

    Cheers,
    Leszek.
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  23. #22 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    So given the fact that we now have the ability to contain antimatter better then ever before, given say 10-20 years do you think we will be able to build an antimatter bomb? What would one speculate the yeild would be on such a device?

    There is no such thing as antimatter according to my teachings. Never heard the slightest interesting or real thing about it. I have only heard concepts, theories, future experiments. Need for more grant monies.

    But never even heard of a reason for it. What can't you do now that you would want anti matter for?

    You can wipe out the solar system now with conventional weapons.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  24. #23 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    But never even heard of a reason for it. What can't you do now that you would want anti matter for?

    You can wipe out the solar system now with conventional weapons.
    The last sentence is not entirely true, but it would certainly be possible to kill all humans, so I will happily admit that the firepower we as mankind have at our disposal is perfectly adequate.

    However, my young friend, when you have moved past the healthy age of proving your importance by killing, and into the more mature age of holding on to your earthly existence by seeking medical help, you might hear about positron emission tomography. Believe it or not, it works, and it uses positrons (anti-electrons) for other purposes than spreading death and destruction.

    Peace and good health,
    Leszek.
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  25. #24 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    But never even heard of a reason for it. What can't you do now that you would want anti matter for?

    You can wipe out the solar system now with conventional weapons.
    The last sentence is not entirely true, but it would certainly be possible to kill all humans, so I will happily admit that the firepower we as mankind have at our disposal is perfectly adequate.

    However, my young friend, when you have moved past the healthy age of proving your importance by killing, and into the more mature age of holding on to your earthly existence by seeking medical help, you might hear about positron emission tomography. Believe it or not, it works, and it uses positrons (anti-electrons) for other purposes than spreading death and destruction.

    Peace and good health,
    Leszek.

    You can easily wipe out the universe with conventional products in a decent volume.

    How do you come to the conclusion that I wish to kill to be important. Rather then to protect the fortune of my importance?

    That is quite an assumption and conclusion to make.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  26. #25 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    But never even heard of a reason for it. What can't you do now that you would want anti matter for?

    You can wipe out the solar system now with conventional weapons.
    The last sentence is not entirely true, but it would certainly be possible to kill all humans, so I will happily admit that the firepower we as mankind have at our disposal is perfectly adequate.

    However, my young friend, when you have moved past the healthy age of proving your importance by killing, and into the more mature age of holding on to your earthly existence by seeking medical help, you might hear about positron emission tomography. Believe it or not, it works, and it uses positrons (anti-electrons) for other purposes than spreading death and destruction.

    Peace and good health,
    Leszek.

    Those are not positrons those are electron particles.




    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  27. #26 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
    Forum Ph.D. Leszek Luchowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Those are not positrons those are electron particles.
    You mean - when doctors send you to get a PET scan they mean Particle-Electronic Tomography? Not Positron Emission Tomography, by any chance?

    Perplexedly yours,
    Leszek.
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  28. #27 Re: Antimatter bomb? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Those are not positrons those are electron particles.
    You mean - when doctors send you to get a PET scan they mean Particle-Electronic Tomography? Not Positron Emission Tomography, by any chance?

    Perplexedly yours,
    Leszek.

    I was brought up in a place where everything was electrons. Nothing possible, could not easily be explained by electrons and their known abilities. I am sure electrons are the only subatomic particle. I am not telling you to be sure.

    But in my area deep space travel, was all ready to show its stuff, in the sixties. But the amazing vehicles were so tenacious that there was no military solution to them. And the thought of such vessels being in the hands of the military was equally as frightening to law makers. So they were forcefully mothballed.

    If you look at some of the theories of these imaginary new subatomic particles as I term them, and the ridiculous rules that come with them.

    You might be able to get an idea of the level of misunderstanding a nation claiming to be righteous and truthful, could cause in the world of science. Especially when America was bad mouthing Russia for hiding knowledge from their citizens. Russia did have some strong points in certain areas of science.

    We were ready to march our boys into Russia, if those scum hid one little weapon from their own people. We were telling Russian officials that they could not sensor their newscasts with force or ignorance and cover-up.

    So on one hand America is the good country, with the good guys the white knights. Spanking Russia and her allies, for not having democracy, democracy that would slap down counterintelligence operations before breakfast.

    Then America breaks fast to the left, and starts her own counterintelligence operations right at home. Actually law makers just picked up the pace of the existing counterintelligence operations. Attacking her own individuals. Forcing bad education on most Americans.

    The freedom of information act was only introduced to take power from the accusations that America had become a Soviet style police state. By the time it was enacted, most of the damage had been done. And all there was, was the ruins, of half discarded and misplaced documents. Many years later, with court orders and all kinds of red tape. Some truth has come out.

    Some of the documents are a bit horrifying.

    Look at the reality though.

    I watched for years as a plane reported to be carrying hydrofluoric and hydrochloric acid, lost their crew before crashing in Holland where poison gas killed Dutch fire fighters, and apartment dwellers in the apartment crashed into.

    It was suspected to be an airborne poison of some type. Our United States government never came out and said, "Yes Hydrofluoric acid and hydrochloric acid releases an almost pure chlorine gas and hydrofluoric acid vapor. Kills almost instantly". Even though those chemicals were on board according to the displayed manifest.

    It would only take a few drops aboard a cargo plane to do it. The Manifests of the plane as shown on news broadcasts showed these two substances on board.

    The news reported that many others had claimed that such chemicals would in fact cause a severe hazard. But that it was denied by Washington DC. Still no word from Washington DC to this day that I am aware of.

    All these years have passed. No one knows how many others have died because of this cover-up.

    Lets face it if you live here in America you don't think, or do not want to think that America would just keep silent about two common and very dangerous chemicals. Would you?
    So if nothing comes from it and the reporters state that the United Stated government denies those two chemicals are dangerous. You would have to believe that there is not a danger from those two chemicals. And you would go to work the next day and store them together despite some high school educated co-workers cries or pleas.

    I was involved in an accident while making a porcelain refurbishing solution. About three drops of each substance is more then enough to fill a small room with deadly gas. If I did not have my training from my father to survive phosgene gas, I would have died for sure. Because I almost died even with it. I just did not see the tiny volume as being that dangerous.

    My point is that if a government is not fast to spread the truth, they are pretty quick at spreading lies. This is an absolute proven throughout history.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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