Notices
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: The essence of Energy

  1. #1 The essence of Energy 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6
    OK so I am only in highschool and have yet to take a physics course, so lots of my questions will probably be dumb to you guys, but I have been stumping over this one for a few months.

    Energy is the ability to move or change matter.
    When antimatter and matter collide, there is a 100% matter-->energy transformation.

    So what if, in the vaccum of space, the exact same ammount of matter and antimatter collided. There would be all this energy, but nothing for it to affect. What would it do? What would it be? Pretty much, what is energy without matter, or, the essence of energy.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2 Re: The essence of Energy 
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,521
    Quote Originally Posted by paindealer
    OK so I am only in highschool and have yet to take a physics course, so lots of my questions will probably be dumb to you guys, but I have been stumping over this one for a few months.

    Energy is the ability to move or change matter.
    When antimatter and matter collide, there is a 100% matter-->energy transformation.

    So what if, in the vaccum of space, the exact same ammount of matter and antimatter collided. There would be all this energy, but nothing for it to affect. What would it do? What would it be? Pretty much, what is energy without matter, or, the essence of energy.
    tricky indeed.
    i too am in high school but we havn't covered energy yet, so i'd take a guess at potential energy as being the answer.

    the potential is there for work to be done on an object. if the object were suddenly dropped into the vacuum then work could be done on it.

    then again theres the photons.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    When a matter and anti-matter particle annihilate they give off the energy in the form of a photon.
    It is common speculation that the universe you are in right now is the miniscule remnants of an antimatter - matter annihilation, the matter(or antimatter if you want to look at it like that) being ever so slightly more than the antimatter(0.000000001 difference or something like that), thus we are the left over fraction. You probably have heard this though.


    gOOD luck on finding someone to answer your second unanswerable question.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4 Re: The essence of Energy 
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,893
    Quote Originally Posted by paindealer
    OK so I am only in highschool and have yet to take a physics course, so lots of my questions will probably be dumb to you guys, but I have been stumping over this one for a few months.

    Energy is the ability to move or change matter.
    When antimatter and matter collide, there is a 100% matter-->energy transformation.

    So what if, in the vaccum of space, the exact same ammount of matter and antimatter collided. There would be all this energy, but nothing for it to affect. What would it do? What would it be? Pretty much, what is energy without matter, or, the essence of energy.
    Most of the energy would go into electromagnetic radiation - lots of very bright light.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    BIG ball of FIRE!!!!

    Sorta...
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,672
    what color would the ball be then ??

    red would be most likely.. or violet... or just some gamma radiation?

    still. i am not sure that antimatter reacts with matter... i strongly doubt it.. at least... not to pure energy...
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    it turns to 100% of energy, radiation energy. All the energy will be gamma rays and any living thing nearby will die. MOHAHAHA
    e<sup>-</sup> + e<sup>+</sup> = 2 gamma rays
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    what color would the ball be then ??

    red would be most likely.. or violet... or just some gamma radiation?

    still. i am not sure that antimatter reacts with matter... i strongly doubt it.. at least... not to pure energy...
    Indeed it does! and the energy convertion is 100%. We have made minuscule(in energy terms) amounts of antimatter in the lab. Further -antimatter/matter annihilation is employed every day in postitron emission tomography.,
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Junior Vroomfondel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by Imaplanck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    what color would the ball be then ??

    red would be most likely.. or violet... or just some gamma radiation?

    still. i am not sure that antimatter reacts with matter... i strongly doubt it.. at least... not to pure energy...
    Indeed it does! and the energy convertion is 100%. We have made minuscule(in energy terms) amounts of antimatter in the lab. Further -antimatter/matter annihilation is employed every day in postitron emission tomography.,
    And there MUST be more than 1 photon so that conservation of momentum can be conserved.
    I demand that my name may or may not be vroomfondel!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    of curse, why do u think i wrote 2 gamma rays?
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Vroomfondel
    Quote Originally Posted by Imaplanck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    what color would the ball be then ??

    red would be most likely.. or violet... or just some gamma radiation?

    still. i am not sure that antimatter reacts with matter... i strongly doubt it.. at least... not to pure energy...
    Indeed it does! and the energy convertion is 100%. We have made minuscule(in energy terms) amounts of antimatter in the lab. Further -antimatter/matter annihilation is employed every day in postitron emission tomography.,
    And there MUST be more than 1 photon so that conservation of momentum can be conserved.
    Yes yous are right there are two equal and opposite.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,672
    nobody ever witnessed an antimatter reaction... :? why so certain that it makes matter disappear ??
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    becuase when they react we get 2 gama rays or more that have the energy equalent to the amount of matter reacting
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,672
    yes i know, but who said it had to dissappear.. can't there just be smaller molecules in there then??

    like 1 Helium + 1 Antimatter turns into 2 Hydrogen and 2 neutrons + energy

    if there is just 1 kind of antimatter, that has the same mass every time, it is just a dissolving particle that is everywhere we look... Just more around smaller molecules, and less around big ones..

    or are there more kinda of antimatter? like antisulfur?
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    becuase there isnt any smaller particle than subatomic ones known, they made a positron and e electron react, the result were gamarays of equal energy their mass represented. and we both know that electron isnt mad eup by smaller particles known yet
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    And then theres the first law of thermal dynamics that says energy cannot be created or destroyed, just transformed.

    If you know the energy of the particles and the resulting photons and they are exactly the same, you know annihilation has occured.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    yes i know, but who said it had to dissappear.. can't there just be smaller molecules in there then??

    like 1 Helium + 1 Antimatter turns into 2 Hydrogen and 2 neutrons + energy

    if there is just 1 kind of antimatter, that has the same mass every time, it is just a dissolving particle that is everywhere we look... Just more around smaller molecules, and less around big ones..

    or are there more kinda of antimatter? like antisulfur?
    Because when physics labs react matter with antimatter they observe that gamma rays are produced but not atoms/molecules. It's not like it's hard to detect atoms. If they were produced by matter/antimatter reactions, we would see them.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    of course there can be anti-sulphur, but the best one yet observed is anti.hydrogen
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19 Re: The essence of Energy 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by paindealer
    Energy is the ability to move or change matter.
    INCORRECT!!!!! Everything is energy, including matter (and antimatter) itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by paindealer
    When antimatter and matter collide, there is a 100% matter-->energy transformation.
    Correct. However some of the energy can also be in particle antiparticle pairs. The result is unpredictable. Two photons is only the most likely result. I think it has to be at least two photons to conserve momentum.

    Quote Originally Posted by paindealer
    So what if, in the vaccum of space, the exact same ammount of matter and antimatter collided. There would be all this energy, but nothing for it to affect. What would it do? What would it be? Pretty much, what is energy without matter, or, the essence of energy.
    The most likely result of two photons would have no trouble. Light can move through a vacuum.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20 Re: The essence of Energy 
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

    Quote Originally Posted by paindealer
    When antimatter and matter collide, there is a 100% matter-->energy transformation.
    Correct. However some of the energy can also be in particle antiparticle pairs. The result is unpredictable. Two photons is only the most likely result. I think it has to be at least two photons to conserve momentum.
    this pretty much depends on the particles in question, if its electron/position with not to muchspeed its almost 100% certain its gamma rays becuase the energy released isnt suffient to produce antyhing else. while antineutron/neutron is capable to produce any possible particle with less mass
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Junior Vroomfondel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    234
    I think Cern has made antihydrogen, but they cant contain it in any way.
    I demand that my name may or may not be vroomfondel!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    they have and they can, theoreticly i think they have done it practical for short periods of time, but long times for particles
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23 Re: The essence of Energy 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain

    Quote Originally Posted by paindealer
    When antimatter and matter collide, there is a 100% matter-->energy transformation.
    Correct. However some of the energy can also be in particle antiparticle pairs. The result is unpredictable. Two photons is only the most likely result. I think it has to be at least two photons to conserve momentum.
    this pretty much depends on the particles in question, if its electron/position with not to muchspeed its almost 100% certain its gamma rays becuase the energy released isnt suffient to produce antyhing else. while antineutron/neutron is capable to produce any possible particle with less mass
    That is correct of course. At low energies there are few options in an electron-positron collision since the electron is pretty much the lightest particle with mass. It is not certain whether the muon or tauon neutrinos have mass or not, but the electron neutrinos seem to be massless, so an electron neutrino pair would have no where to put the energy. So in order to produce a pair of (different) massive particles from an electron-positron collision, the electron and positron would have to collide with considerable kinetic energy. Producing another electron-positron pair is of course equivalent to a mechanical scattering without annihilation.

    I would have to brush up on my quantum field theory scattering cross section calculations to consider why if the muon neutrino has a small mass then why don't we see muon neutrino pair production in electron-positron annihilation. A sense of continuity suggests that the scattering cross section must be inversely proportional to the required (minimum) momentum of the product particles. This kind of makes sense to me since my foggy memory envisions integration of the momentum k from that minimum to infinity of something like 1/(k^2+m^2).
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    That is correct of course. At low energies there are few options in an electron-positron collision since the electron is pretty much the lightest particle with mass. It is not certain whether the muon or tauon neutrinos have mass or not, but the electron neutrinos seem to be massless, so an electron neutrino pair would have no where to put the energy. So in order to produce a pair of (different) massive particles from an electron-positron collision, the electron and positron would have to collide with considerable kinetic energy. Producing another electron-positron pair is of course equivalent to a mechanical scattering without annihilation.
    they have mass, to be able to change from one neutrino typoe to another, wich they can, they must have mass, they are lightest know particle with mass. but it almost never reacts with normal matter
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    That is correct of course. At low energies there are few options in an electron-positron collision since the electron is pretty much the lightest particle with mass. It is not certain whether the muon or tauon neutrinos have mass or not, but the electron neutrinos seem to be massless, so an electron neutrino pair would have no where to put the energy. So in order to produce a pair of (different) massive particles from an electron-positron collision, the electron and positron would have to collide with considerable kinetic energy. Producing another electron-positron pair is of course equivalent to a mechanical scattering without annihilation.
    they have mass, to be able to change from one neutrino typoe to another, wich they can, they must have mass, they are lightest know particle with mass. but it almost never reacts with normal matter
    Another indicator they have mass - because they decay. If neutreno's traveled at lightspeed and they would obviously have to exist massless you would see no decay because the halflife would be factored by an infinate gamma.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    yepp, they travel at almost C, faster than probebly any other particle in the universe that have mass
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
    Posts
    3,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Imaplanck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    they have mass, to be able to change from one neutrino typoe to another, wich they can, they must have mass, they are lightest know particle with mass. but it almost never reacts with normal matter
    Another indicator they have mass - because they decay. If neutreno's traveled at lightspeed and they would obviously have to exist massless you would see no decay because the halflife would be factored by an infinate gamma.
    You are both refering to ideas for solving the problem of the solar neutrino deficit. Both of these solutions imply that neutrinos have mass, however, I think this physics is far from settled. The neutrino oscillation theory seems to have won out over the idea of neutrino decay. Scientists are still searching for evidence of neutrino decay, but I do not know of any success. Furthermore it looks like attempts to actually measure the mass of the neutrino have not produced convincing results either. It all seems still very much in the air to me.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    6
    Whoever said my definition of energy is wrong, this was taken from Encharta Reference Library 2004: the capacity of a body or system to do work. Symbol E

    I have a recording of Einstein saying that matter can be transformed into energy and visa versa and are fundementally the same thing, yes. I even have it stated that the matter turns into energy! So what do you want me to say? The energy to energy translation rate is 100%? For all intents and purposes of this thread I must differenciate, and I am using the dictionary definition of energy for every time I say energy.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,755
    you can also say it like this, there exist absolutly no energy, only mass. when a object gets energy it gets mass, when it loses energy it loses mass (little but still some) but this kind of things gets in trouble when we talk about photons, so this idea worx only on matter
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •