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Thread: Why do electrons need forces to keep them in place?

  1. #1 Why do electrons need forces to keep them in place? 
    study curiouscat's Avatar
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    I'm a little lost for understanding why electrons simply need magnetism to keep the electrons from flying away and kinetic energy to keep the electrons from bumping into the nucleus. What would happen if these forces did not act upon the electrons? How would they behave?


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    Forum Sophomore Eversbane's Avatar
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    Like neutrinos?


    Nearly all of the above lines of evidence can be questioned, and all have more than one possible cause (although some may have no cause at all).
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    Moderator Moderator TheBiologista's Avatar
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    This is not a biology question. Moving to physics.
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    This is a biology question, I drew the question of from a biology text book ....
    "This distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion."
    -Albert Einstein
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    Forum Bachelors Degree x(x-y)'s Avatar
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    Strange biology book you must be reading then- this is a physics question as it involves the physics of the fundamental forces and the nature of electrons. As for what would happen if these forces weren't acting on the electron, they would simply not exist in atoms seeing as the forces required to keep them there would not exist in your scenario.
    "Nature doesn't care what we call it, she just does it anyway" - R. Feynman
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  7. #6  
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    How would our world be different if electrons did not exist?
    "This distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion."
    -Albert Einstein
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    Forum Sophomore Eversbane's Avatar
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    all matter would exist as ions?



    this is a fun game.

    My turn.

    Where would I jump if there was no up?
    Nearly all of the above lines of evidence can be questioned, and all have more than one possible cause (although some may have no cause at all).
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    How would our world be different if electrons did not exist?
    We would not exist, and neither would a lot of the other matter formations we say today- there would just be nuclei, no atoms per se. But that question is highly irrelevant, I'm afraid, as science generally deals with what the universe is, what did happen and how/why did these "things" happen; it doesn't tend to bother with the details of what might've happened if gravity was stronger, if quark-gluon interaction was weaker, if x was y...
    "Nature doesn't care what we call it, she just does it anyway" - R. Feynman
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  10. #9  
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    Just a question.
    "This distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion."
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    That is not a biology question, nor is it a physics question.
    Magnetism does not keep electrons from flying away nor does kinetic energy keep electrons from bumping into the nucleus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MigL View Post
    That is not a biology question, nor is it a physics question.
    Magnetism does not keep electrons from flying away nor does kinetic energy keep electrons from bumping into the nucleus.
    Electrons are negatively charged and orbit around the nucleus in a three-dimensional cloud of energy levels. The positive-negative attraction (magnetism) keeps the electrons from flying away from the nucleus. Conversely, the kinetic energy of the electron provides it with the energy of movement and keeps the electron from slamming into the nucleus. The balance between these two forces, magnetism and kinetic energy, defines the orbital pathways of all electrons.
    Last edited by curiouscat; August 5th, 2011 at 03:53 PM.
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    Moderator Moderator Janus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MigL View Post
    That is not a biology question, nor is it a physics question.
    Magnetism does not keep electrons from flying away nor does kinetic energy keep electrons from bumping into the nucleus.
    Electrons are negatively charged and orbit around the nucleus in a three-dimensional cloud of energy levels. The positive-negative attraction (magnetism) keeps the electrons from flying away from the nucleus. Conversely, the kinetic energy of the electron provides it with the energy of movement and keeps the electron from slamming into the nucleus. The balance between these two forces, magnetism and kinetic energy, defines the orbital pathways of all electrons.
    First off, even under the old classical model of the atom, it is the Coulomb (electrostatic) force that attracts the electron and nucleus, not magnetism.

    Secondly, the classical model has been replaced with the QM model in which electrons do not follow "orbits", but instead form probability clouds ( despite the use of the term "orbital" when discussing electrons in QM, we are not talking about orbits in the classical sense). Since these probability clouds can include the nucleus, there is a non-zero chance that at any given moment an orbital electron could actually be found in the nucleus.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    How would our world be different if electrons did not exist?
    I think simply we wouldn't exist, since the their would be no subatomic particles to make up the particles it would be like. Trying to eat cereal with milk on a countertop that is pitched to the sides. Everything would run down onto the floor and it would be impossible. Thats just my stupid analogy on it anyway lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fmp2491 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    How would our world be different if electrons did not exist?
    I think simply we wouldn't exist, since the their would be no subatomic particles to make up the particles it would be like. Trying to eat cereal with milk on a countertop that is pitched to the sides. Everything would run down onto the floor and it would be impossible. Thats just my stupid analogy on it anyway lol
    haha respectable!!
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    -Albert Einstein
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    Forum Freshman Fmp2491's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fmp2491 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    How would our world be different if electrons did not exist?
    I think simply we wouldn't exist, since the their would be no subatomic particles to make up the particles it would be like. Trying to eat cereal with milk on a countertop that is pitched to the sides. Everything would run down onto the floor and it would be impossible. Thats just my stupid analogy on it anyway lol
    haha respectable!!
    Haha im glad you found humor in my post I was hoping you wouldn't take it as condescending I ment it to be actually funny haha! hope it helped anyway
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  17. #16  
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    haha I like the post and the humor thank you!
    "This distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion."
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