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Thread: New heat pump principle ?

  1. #1 New heat pump principle ? 
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    Hello,

    Today, I have decided to join your community because I have discovered the Auroville Centre for Scientific Research, south India, and because they give some explanations about a new heat pump process. They say that they don't want to apply for patents (they want to give their discovery to humanity as a whole). So they don't have any strain. They are free to disclose everything and this is exactly what they are doing. I am currently in India and I met the inventor.

    So... I have a few questions :

    1- Do you think that a « Th+ » and a « Tc- » can "appear" ?
    2- Is this really a new heat pump process or principle ?
    3- What do you think about the efficiency of this heat pump ?
    4- Please, help me ! Because I can't find where they are wrong (if they are wrong).

    Of course, if they are right then this is good news (to efficiently convert heat into mechanical energy).

    The document :
    http://www.monotherme.com/HEAT%20PUM...0PRINCIPLE.pdf
    This heat pump concept comes from this document:
    http://www.monotherme.com/Diathermic...verter%202.pdf

    thanks


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  3. #2  
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    If you think it can work, go ahead and build one, then come back and tell us about it.


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  4. #3 A Maxwell's Demon ??? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    If you think it can work, go ahead and build one, then come back and tell us about it.
    Yes and yes: we think it works and we are buiding a prototype.
    We know it works and how it works. http://www.monotherme.com/Tableau%201bis.xls

    But, first, it is very interesting to think about thtis NEW process.

    Without the help of a compression piston (we only use a displacer piston), we obtain from a hot source and a cold sink (the cold sink may be at room temperature) a Tc- temperature (on the cold side) which is lower than the cold source!
    Conversely, when the piston moves the gaseous fluid from the cold side to the hot side, the molecules that entered the hot side of the cylinder compartment at Th temperature rise in temperature above the temperature of the hot source, up to Tc +. The appearance of a Tc- and a Th+ from Tc and Th reminds us immediately of Maxwell’s Demon...

    However, the device does not produce a hot source and a cold sink: it only increases
    the temperature difference between the two sources.

    Some comments about entropy?
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  5. #4 Re: A Maxwell's Demon ??? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remy
    However, the device does not produce a hot source and a cold sink: it only increases
    the temperature difference between the two sources.
    What's the difference?
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  6. #5 Re: A Maxwell's Demon ??? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    Quote Originally Posted by Remy
    However, the device does not produce a hot source and a cold sink: it only increases
    the temperature difference between the two sources.
    What's the difference?
    [/quote]

    In practice we need a temperature difference (a primary deltaT) between the cold side and the hot side to be able to produce a pressure variation (when moving the gazeous fluid from one side to the other etc...). Then, this pressure variation will produce a temperature difference (a secondary deltaT) in the hot compartment itself and another temperature difference (another secondary deltaT) in the cold compartment itself. Maxwell's demon was supposed to be able to know the speed of each molecules coming near the door and to select (or to «*dispatch*») each molecules to the hot side or the cold side... Here we only need to select or to sort big clusters of molecules and this is easy to achieve.

    Your question*: in theory, what is the difference*?
    To initiate the process*, how small the temperature difference between the two sides could be?

    Even without any losses, if we can initiate the process from a very small temperature difference, it will disappear because we need the power of the hot source to warm the mass of the gaseous fluid itself (and there is much more mass to warm: the mass needed to store efficiently the heat of the gaseous fluid). This is the energy coming from the hot source witch is used to achieve higher temperatures in the hot compartment (and it is needed to warm the mass of the regenerator). So, the device needs a hot source to warm the hot side.
    But, after that, if we don't tap the hot side when it is hot, then, the temperature of the hot side is like a data (ideally, without any losses). We don't need the power of a hot source anymore*!
    The temperature difference of the gaseous fluid in the cold compartment (this secondary delaT), according to the cycle, is a true Maxwell's demon.
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  7. #6  
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    tomatos tommatos,


    this is really just a modified carnot/stirling cycle system so it does create a delta, and ya that delta is lost if not preserved, not a good system of energy storage thou, but it does create the delta, so a neutral h/c sides would build/loose temperature, and so an imbalanced neutral would gain more imbalance...

    personally when i see this system i feel it would make a good "gaseous molecule separator" over anything, if we could get the gases out after isolating,

    this is my favorite cooling cycle:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_tube_refrigerator

    and (although inefficient);
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggy View Post
    this is really just a modified carnot/stirling cycle system
    "just" ?

    There is NO mechanical energy going in or out the system.

    The gazeus fluid enters the cold compartment at Tc temperature (the temperature of the cold sink) then goes out:
    first at a colder temperature than the cold sink !...
    then at a higher temperature than the cold sink...
    and without spending mechanical energy!...

    This is like a Maxwell's demon !

    A first step is to understand that a higher temperature than the hot source is appearing (hot side) without spending mechanical energy
    and that a lower temperature than the cold sink is appearing (cold side) without spending mechanical energy!...

    yes, no ?
    This is really a new heat pump process or principle.


    The document to study:
    http://www.monotherme.com/HEAT PUMP ... PRINCIPLE.pdf
    Last edited by Remy; August 16th, 2011 at 12:39 AM.
    Do your best
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