Notices
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Positronium binds to form stable particles?

  1. #1 Positronium binds to form stable particles? 
    Forum Sophomore Eleven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dallas,TX
    Posts
    138
    This is BIG

    http://www.cs.cdu.edu.au/homepages/j...esk/psatom.htm

    We can imagine that there is more here than we can imagine!

    Exotic particles may have exotic properties that can be applied to a whole new world of scienctific and engineering applications.

    edited 1 to make link work 2 embellished idea


    Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.

    An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2 Re: Positronium binds to form stable particles? 
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleven
    This is BIG

    http://www.cs.cdu.edu.au/homepages/j...esk/psatom.htm

    We can imagine that there is more here than we can imagine!
    Interesting link, but was there a point to posting it? Did you have a question? An area you'd like to explore further with the members?


    See, look. I'll do it, too. This is BIG! We can imagine that there is more here...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,035
    iNow, whatever you think of 11, you don't have to attack him every time he posts something. He's got all of 96 posts, so there's no saying this early in his time with us that he won't figure out the rules of the forum and start behaving himself within those expectations so as to add to our discussions.

    Besides, that link is actually pretty awesome. If positronium can really be made to be stable by binding it with other atoms, then the question of how to store antimatter over long periods of time might potentially be solved some day. And that means Star Trek is one step closer to being a plausible reality. (Granted that it's still not exactly close...)


    It's definitely a topic worthy of discussion. Now, if 11 would just give us his opinion on the matter.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Sophomore Eleven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dallas,TX
    Posts
    138
    Besides, that link is actually pretty awesome. If positronium can really be made to be stable by binding it with other atoms, then the question of how to store antimatter over long periods of time might potentially be solved some day. And that means Star Trek is one step closer to being a plausible reality. (Granted that it's still not exactly close...)
    I was thinking star trek!

    This is beyond me.

    It could possibly be like electricity, with numerous profound applications that likely noone can predict,at this point.

    We have something NEW. What can we now do that we could't do without it?

    This could possibly be the start of the next ERA in science.

    Edited for clarity
    Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.

    An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    iNow, whatever you think of 11, you don't have to attack him every time he posts something.
    It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. :wink:

    This could possibly be the start of the next ERA in science.
    Maybe. There could be all kinds of properties that would facilitate chip design/function. Equally the press often gets excited about things like carbon nano tubes, or hih temperature superconductors, but nothing emerges........ ....... ..... at first. Devlopment time is a bitch.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    iNow, whatever you think of 11, you don't have to attack him every time he posts something.
    FFS, get a grip. How is it an attack to ask this:

    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    Interesting link, but was there a point to posting it? Did you have a question? An area you'd like to explore further with the members?
    I really don't understand your reply. The unicorn thing was to make it clear how it appeared when I opened this thread. It was a way to use a comparison to make my point more understandable.


    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Besides, that link is actually pretty awesome. <snip> It's definitely a topic worthy of discussion.
    Yes, which is why I opened my post, "Interesting link," and then asked him what exactly he wanted to discuss.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,035
    It was the comparing it with Unicorns part that got me all riled. This is not unicorns. If you could bind positronium into a stable atom, and have it be stable, then you could effectively store antimatter in a cardboard box.

    Then, whenever you want the energy out of them, you do some chemistry process to separate the positronium back out of the chemical bond, and just let it annihilate itself. It would be most compact energy storage mechanism ever.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Sophomore Eleven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dallas,TX
    Posts
    138
    It may or may not have fantastic applications, though it looks promising.

    Maybe the mainstream media will get on this soon.

    edit: poor planning, still pondering
    Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.

    An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Bachelors Degree PetTastic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    421
    This is calculated electronically stable; they found energy minima in a solution to the Schrodinger equation for an issolated alkali atom. {Edit deleted crap}

    The life time of positronium looks too short for any form of conventional chemical reaction with a metal. My guess is, the positronium would have to be created at exactly the correct distance from the metal atom.

    So, should we read this piece as more of a prediction of a gamma-ray absorption line for isolated metal atoms?
    I believe in nothing, but trust gravity to hold me down and the electromagnetic force to stop me falling through
    Physics is the search for the best model not the truth, as only mythical beings know that.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Sophomore Alex-The Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    in my house , in front of my pc
    Posts
    195
    "Universe is not as weird as you think it is weirder than you can ever,ever think"- Ophiolite(My Grandpa)
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
    - Prof. Stephen W. Hawking
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Sophomore Eleven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dallas,TX
    Posts
    138
    This technology seems not to be the harnessing of existing energy, like nuclear energy.

    It is the storage of large ammounts of energy in a small area to be released later.

    Applications would include explosives and space travel.

    In tiny ammounts there may be medical uses.
    Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.

    An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    769
    The atoms aren't stable I'm afraid. Positronium behaves rather like "light" hydrogen, like it says at the top of the link. But the lifetime is very short. Combining it chemically with other atoms doesn't make it stable. See the gamma column and note that it's "The annihilation rate (in 10^9 sec^-1)". Also see positronium and look at the lifetimes for para and ortho-positronium. The lifetime varies, but positronium isn't stable. I suppose though that extending the lifetime is a kind of transient positron capture, so maybe Electron capture is relevant. See the bit that says:

    "There is an analogous process possible in theory in antimatter: antiproton-rich antimatter radioisotopes isotopes might decay via an analogous process of positron capture, but in practice, no such complex antimatter nuclides have either been discovered or artificially constructed.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Sophomore Alex-The Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    in my house , in front of my pc
    Posts
    195
    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    The atoms aren't stable I'm afraid. Positronium behaves rather like "light" hydrogen, like it says at the top of the link. But the lifetime is very short. Combining it chemically with other atoms doesn't make it stable. See the gamma column and note that it's "The annihilation rate (in 10^9 sec^-1)". Also see positronium and look at the lifetimes for para and ortho-positronium. The lifetime varies, but positronium isn't stable. I suppose though that extending the lifetime is a kind of transient positron capture, so maybe Electron capture is relevant. See the bit that says:

    "There is an analogous process possible in theory in antimatter: antiproton-rich antimatter radioisotopes isotopes might decay via an analogous process of positron capture, but in practice, no such complex antimatter nuclides have either been discovered or artificially constructed.
    Read the link ive given 2 posts before and you'll understand........
    "Universe is not as weird as you think it is weirder than you can ever,ever think"- Ophiolite(My Grandpa)
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
    - Prof. Stephen W. Hawking
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,035
    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    The atoms aren't stable I'm afraid. Positronium behaves rather like "light" hydrogen, like it says at the top of the link. But the lifetime is very short. Combining it chemically with other atoms doesn't make it stable. See the gamma column and note that it's "The annihilation rate (in 10^9 sec^-1)". Also see positronium and look at the lifetimes for para and ortho-positronium. The lifetime varies, but positronium isn't stable. I suppose though that extending the lifetime is a kind of transient positron capture, so maybe Electron capture is relevant. See the bit that says:

    "There is an analogous process possible in theory in antimatter: antiproton-rich antimatter radioisotopes isotopes might decay via an analogous process of positron capture, but in practice, no such complex antimatter nuclides have either been discovered or artificially constructed.
    So, are you saying that, while the molecules created by binding positronium to other atoms are "electronically stable", that doesn't mean the positronium won't annihilate itself?

    Well... that's not quite as amazing then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-The Great
    My understanding of this article is that it's saying that at least positronium is useful in some kinds of particle physics experimentation.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Sophomore Alex-The Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    in my house , in front of my pc
    Posts
    195
    yes it is useful and we might get to know more and more properties of it as we go on researching on it and combining it with more elements.........
    "Universe is not as weird as you think it is weirder than you can ever,ever think"- Ophiolite(My Grandpa)
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
    - Prof. Stephen W. Hawking
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Sophomore Eleven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dallas,TX
    Posts
    138
    Not stable? Heck

    So, are you saying that, while the molecules created by binding positronium to other atoms are "electronically stable", that doesn't mean the positronium won't annihilate itself?
    The purpose of having antimatter would be for it to annhialate itself.
    Like gasoline...

    But control would be nice.

    edited for content not affecting future posts
    Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.

    An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    769
    Eleven: check out a PET scan. There's one in a hospital near you. We use antimatter to take pictures.

    Alex: paper noted. This interesting report about positronium came up a few months back: Neutral positronium scatters like a charged particle. And I quote: "physicists in the UK are scratching their heads after finding that positronium interacts with matter as if it were a lone electron".
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Sophomore Eleven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dallas,TX
    Posts
    138
    Yes, I know that hospitals use antimatter, already.
    Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.

    An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Sophomore Alex-The Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    in my house , in front of my pc
    Posts
    195
    yes like eleven even i know that...............nothing knew far(short)sight
    "Universe is not as weird as you think it is weirder than you can ever,ever think"- Ophiolite(My Grandpa)
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
    - Prof. Stephen W. Hawking
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    162
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex-The Great
    yes it is useful and we might get to know more and more properties of it as we go on researching on it and combining it with more elements.........
    You need to realize that the singlet form of positronium annihilates itself after about 0.125 billionths of a second and the triplet form annihilates itself after about 142 billionths of a second. This information is from your own link:

    http://www.citebase.org/fulltext?for...p-ph%2F9911455

    This stuff may be good for particle research, but it doesn't hang around long enough to do any sort of chemistry in the way you seem to be thinking.

    Chris
    It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.
    Robert H. Goddard - 1904
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Sophomore Eleven's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Dallas,TX
    Posts
    138
    What if the particles were created at the tip of a special GUN, going immediately into cancer tissue?

    The speed, direction, and the expected life of the particle would be configured to accurately target selected tissues. Like LASIK in a way.

    Unlike Lasers, affecting only at the surface, this could be targeted deeper.

    BTW I am only guessing that this might kill cancer tissue without corrolary damage, I am not an Oncologist.

    Edited to embellish thought
    Always take hold of things by the smooth handle.

    An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22 We will mass produce it and pro up this galaxy 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    the multi verse
    Posts
    1
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •