Notices
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Blood splashes?

  1. #1 Blood splashes? 
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3
    Facts;
    1. A man got shoot in the back on a sidewalk on his way home.
    2. The bullet goes straight through his body and comes out of his chest.
    3. The weapon was a S&W .357 Magnum 4 barrel revolver, 158 Full Metal
    Jacket bullet.
    4. Its winter time so the victim got a lots of clothes on him, the bullet
    goes through his; t-shirt, shirt, costume, folded tie, coat, scarf.

    Question:
    Should there be any bloodstains on the sidewalk or should all his clothes
    stop the bloodstains and just the bullet comes out of his chest?

    Its about 50 bloodstains in different sizes, from rice size - cent size, on
    a spot 17 ft x 8ft.

    Best regards
    Lennart Remstam


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Did the bullet go all the way through the clothing after it went through the chest? If so, I think there would be plenty of blood on the sidewalk. If the bullet stopped in the clothes, then I think there would still be some blood that got blown back out of the entrance hole. That is just my (non-expert) opinion.

    What is a 4 barrel revolver? Oh, I see, you mean a 4 inch barrel.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3
    Thank you for answering.

    This is from the crime scene.
    http://www.itdemokrati.nu/page35c.html page41 or
    http://www.itdemokrati.nu/page78.html or
    http://www.itdemokrati.nu/page86.html
    You can see the mark that the crime scene investigator has done,
    the bloodstains are on a spot 17x8 ft, and it's about 50 stains, size on the
    stains are from rice size to cent coin size.
    To me it sounds a lot, that so many blood drops passes through his
    winter clothes, t-shirt, shirt, costume, folded tie, coat, scarf.
    I can accept it if it was summertime and the victim
    only had a t-shirt on.

    What I think is that the victim hold
    his hand on the his chest where the bullet comes out, like this;
    http://www.itdemokrati.nu/page83.html
    It sounds more reasonably to me, then the blood drops only have
    to pass through thin gloves. See my reconstruction movie;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96t2g...el_video_title

    Is there any archives where its possible to study this, as I see it it's got to
    be a limit where the only thing that comes out is the bullet and the
    lesser clothes the more bloodstains comes out.

    Lennart Remstam
    Thank.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4 Re: Blood splashes? 
    . DrRocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    5,486
    Quote Originally Posted by Lennart Remstam
    Facts;
    1. A man got shoot in the back on a sidewalk on his way home.
    2. The bullet goes straight through his body and comes out of his chest.
    3. The weapon was a S&W .357 Magnum 4 barrel revolver, 158 Full Metal
    Jacket bullet.
    4. Its winter time so the victim got a lots of clothes on him, the bullet
    goes through his; t-shirt, shirt, costume, folded tie, coat, scarf.

    Question:
    Should there be any bloodstains on the sidewalk or should all his clothes
    stop the bloodstains and just the bullet comes out of his chest?

    Its about 50 bloodstains in different sizes, from rice size - cent size, on
    a spot 17 ft x 8ft.

    Best regards
    Lennart Remstam
    1. This could be complex. I have seen exit wounds in game animals produce profuse bleeding and also similar wounds produce little bleeding. A great deal depends on exactly what the bullet struck and the state of the heart at time of impact (filling vs expelling).

    2. You probably need a blood spatter expert. Large law enforcement agencies have this expertise. Apparently there are also specialized consultants. http://www.bloodspatter.com/BPATutorial.htm

    3. I am a bit intrigued by you statement that the bullet was a 158 gt full-metal-jacket from an S&W .357 mag. In the U.S. such bullets are very rare. Most .357 bullets are jacketed soft point, jacketed hollow point or lead. Winchester made a 158 gr metal piercing FMJ many years ago, but that is the only such round of which I am aware.


    Was the victim perhaps a lawyer ? They tend to have very small hearts and to suck blood rather than release it. To some segments of society they are attractive targets.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5 Re: Blood splashes? 
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by Lennart Remstam
    Facts;
    1. A man got shoot in the back on a sidewalk on his way home.
    2. The bullet goes straight through his body and comes out of his chest.
    3. The weapon was a S&W .357 Magnum 4 barrel revolver, 158 Full Metal
    Jacket bullet.
    4. Its winter time so the victim got a lots of clothes on him, the bullet
    goes through his; t-shirt, shirt, costume, folded tie, coat, scarf.

    Question:
    Should there be any bloodstains on the sidewalk or should all his clothes
    stop the bloodstains and just the bullet comes out of his chest?

    Its about 50 bloodstains in different sizes, from rice size - cent size, on
    a spot 17 ft x 8ft.

    Best regards
    Lennart Remstam
    1. This could be complex. I have seen exit wounds in game animals produce profuse bleeding and also similar wounds produce little bleeding. A great deal depends on exactly what the bullet struck and the state of the heart at time of impact (filling vs expelling).

    2. You probably need a blood spatter expert. Large law enforcement agencies have this expertise. Apparently there are also specialized consultants. http://www.bloodspatter.com/BPATutorial.htm

    3. I am a bit intrigued by you statement that the bullet was a 158 gt full-metal-jacket from an S&W .357 mag. In the U.S. such bullets are very rare. Most .357 bullets are jacketed soft point, jacketed hollow point or lead. Winchester made a 158 gr metal piercing FMJ many years ago, but that is the only such round of which I am aware.


    Was the victim perhaps a lawyer ? They tend to have very small hearts and to suck blood rather than release it. To some segments of society they are attractive targets.
    1. The exit hole is not bigger then the bullet, make sense?
    I been thinking about to buy a couple of pigs and dress them
    up in different amount of clothes and weld a construction to put
    them in and then shoot them straight through like in this case.
    And then examen and see if it is reasonably that so many blood
    drops is getting through the clothes. Are you interested in to do this test?
    We can eat the pigs afterwards.
    2. Thanks for the link.
    3. This is the assassination on Prime minister Olof Palme back in 1986,
    the reward is almost 10 million dollars.
    4. I think the blood splashes shouldn't be there, the Police forgot or didn't
    know that there will be no blood splashes because of the winter clothes,
    when they changed the reconstruction and made the cover up.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Looking at the links Lennart posted, it seems we are talking about a large pool of blood underneath the body, not just blood spatter. That being the case, I don't think there is any reason why Mr. Palme would not have bled quite a bit, even enough to soak through his winter clothes. It just would have needed one of the bullets to hit an artery.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    . DrRocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    5,486
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Looking at the links Lennart posted, it seems we are talking about a large pool of blood underneath the body, not just blood spatter. That being the case, I don't think there is any reason why Mr. Palme would not have bled quite a bit, even enough to soak through his winter clothes. It just would have needed one of the bullets to hit an artery.
    Under the right conditions, you can get a lot of internal bleeding with only modest external bleeding. A typical blood trail for a mortally hit animal will involve only a couple of ounces of blood.

    Also, bleeding pretty much stops at death.

    I still think this calls for a forensic expert with specialized expertise and access to data that applies to this and sinilar situations.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8 Re: Blood splashes? 
    . DrRocket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    5,486
    Quote Originally Posted by Lennart Remstam
    1. The exit hole is not bigger then the bullet, make sense?
    I been thinking about to buy a couple of pigs and dress them
    up in different amount of clothes and weld a construction to put
    them in and then shoot them straight through like in this case.
    And then examen and see if it is reasonably that so many blood
    drops is getting through the clothes. Are you interested in to do this test?
    We can eat the pigs afterwards.
    2. Thanks for the link.
    3. This is the assassination on Prime minister Olof Palme back in 1986,
    the reward is almost 10 million dollars.
    4. I think the blood splashes shouldn't be there, the Police forgot or didn't
    know that there will be no blood splashes because of the winter clothes,
    when they changed the reconstruction and made the cover up.
    The exit hole being small indicates that the bullet did not expand. That does not necessarily make it a FMJ. Even hollow points can become clogged with clothing fragments and fail to expand.

    Was the bullet recovered. If so, where ? If not, how was the gun identified ? Has the gun or caliber really been identified ?

    I would be happy to do the test and help eat the pig. But I don't think that we could arrange a practical location that would be easily accessible to both of us.

    Olof Palme ? What a mess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassi..._of_Olof_Palme
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •