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Thread: Is it possible to go faster that the speed of light?

  1. #1 Is it possible to go faster that the speed of light? 
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    I have a theory, but i would like to hear some other opinion first.


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    To move faster than the speed of light, one would as some point in time need to travel at the speed of light, given that velocity is continuous. Currently Einstein's theories of special and general relativity hold that one cannot travel at the speed of light, therefore the the answer to the question is no.


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  4. #3  
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    Hello Lance. Welcome to the forum.

    A word of warning about your post. It suggests an interest in science - which is a very positive interest to have - and a good imagination - which is a very useful thing to have. However, it is likely to be attacked quite viciously. You shouldn't view such attacks in a negative light (accidental pun), but you should try to learn from them. Look at what the poster is saying, not the aggressive way in which they say it.

    Oh, look. Here comes one of those attacks now.

    You don't have a theory. You have, at best, a half thought out, unsubstantiated, poorly expressed, evidentially unsupported, unfalsifiable vague idea.

    In science a theory is a body of material including observations, hypotheses, experiments and the like which all combine together to provide an integrated description of some aspect of nature along with predictive power which has repeatedly been verified.

    I repeat, I very much doubt you have theory. But we might be interested iin hearing your idea.



    Current scientific theory, with a century of observation, testing, evaluation, theorising and such behind it, stipulates quite clearly that the speed of light cannot be exceeded. (There is a theoretical possibllity that some particles (tachyons) may travel faster than light, but these would never travel slower than light. At present there is no evidence for them.)

    Any theory that postulated faster than light travel would have to revisit many others areas of physics to explain phenomena that are currently fully explained, yet require a light speed limit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Hello Lance. Welcome to the forum.

    A word of warning about your post. It suggests an interest in science - which is a very positive interest to have - and a good imagination - which is a very useful thing to have. However, it is likely to be attacked quite viciously. You shouldn't view such attacks in a negative light (accidental pun), but you should try to learn from them. Look at what the poster is saying, not the aggressive way in which they say it.

    Oh, look. Here comes one of those attacks now.

    You don't have a theory. You have, at best, a half thought out, unsubstantiated, poorly expressed, evidentially unsupported, unfalsifiable vague idea.

    In science a theory is a body of material including observations, hypotheses, experiments and the like which all combine together to provide an integrated description of some aspect of nature along with predictive power which has repeatedly been verified.

    I repeat, I very much doubt you have theory. But we might be interested iin hearing your idea.



    Current scientific theory, with a century of observation, testing, evaluation, theorising and such behind it, stipulates quite clearly that the speed of light cannot be exceeded. (There is a theoretical possibllity that some particles (tachyons) may travel faster than light, but these would never travel slower than light. At present there is no evidence for them.)

    Any theory that postulated faster than light travel would have to revisit many others areas of physics to explain phenomena that are currently fully explained, yet require a light speed limit.
    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    but i would like to hear some other opinion first.
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  6. #5 Re: Is it possible to go faster that the speed of light? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    I have a theory, but i would like to hear some other opinion first.
    If you are going to contest special relativity, then this belongs in Pseudoscience.

    If not, the answer is a resounding NO !
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  7. #6 Re: Is it possible to go faster that the speed of light? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    I have a theory, but i would like to hear some other opinion first.
    I don't know what your theory might be. However, if you accept special relativity, there is no way anything starting out slower than light could end up faster than light, for reasons previously described.

    However, it is theoretically possible (in some sense) that there are things going faster than light, and always have been. In some discussions, these are given the term "tachyons". There is no evidence they exist and no one has any idea how to detect them.
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    One must resort to new hypothesis to know why ‘c’ is what it is, then hope for more progress from there. One such hypo or even hype idea I’ve come across is that ‘c’ is a ratio, being the dimensional equivalent between space and time (becoming d/t), there thus then being only one such possible relationship and value for ‘c’. Or, more properly stated, since ever dealing with 4 dimensions, d^4 / d^3t (=’c’) reduces to d/t, in dimensional units.


    Another hypothesis is that ‘c’ is the revolving speed of some spinning entities that can hold no more and so that is the speed at which ‘energy’ is thrown off; however, there would also seem to be photons made from non spinning things, as well as perhaps not being sure about the ‘spinning’, so, I’m not as hepped up about this one.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by questor
    One must resort to new hypothesis to know why ‘c’ is what it is, then hope for more progress from there. One such hypo or even hype idea I’ve come across is that ‘c’ is a ratio, being the dimensional equivalent between space and time (becoming d/t), there thus then being only one such possible relationship and value for ‘c’. Or, more properly stated, since ever dealing with 4 dimensions, d^4 / d^3t (=’c’) reduces to d/t, in dimensional units.


    Another hypothesis is that ‘c’ is the revolving speed of some spinning entities that can hold no more and so that is the speed at which ‘energy’ is thrown off; however, there would also seem to be photons made from non spinning things, as well as perhaps not being sure about the ‘spinning’, so, I’m not as hepped up about this one.
    word salad
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  10. #9 Re: Is it possible to go faster that the speed of light? 
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    Guys, can we get back to the physics please?

    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    I have a theory, but i would like to hear some other opinion first.
    My opinion is that it isn't possible to go faster than light because we are, in simple terms, "made of light". That might sound unconventional, but take a look at pair production where a photon is employed to create an electron and a positron. Then when you annihilate them, you get photons. Also see Proton/antiproton annihilation and The Other Meaning of Special Relativity.
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  11. #10 My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Really?! i am one of the smartest scientific students in my town!

    "My theory is: If we have an infinite amount of space in the universe; and we have a continuous yet rising acceleration. We can obtain any speed. Whether it is the speed of light, or a speed greater than light. There is no limit to speed."

    That was a summery of my theory, but it explains it very well! You must think outside of the box, to learn new things. one of my favorite quotes are:
    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." - Albert Einstein

    Criticism blocks the mind, so try and avoid it! Keep your mind open. When your brain hurts, because you cant comprehend what can be beyond what you think. The answer is never complicated, and is very simple. That why it is often over looked!
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  12. #11 Re: My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    "My theory is: If we have an infinite amount of space in the universe...
    I guess we should check the validity of this premise, then. Is the universe truly infinite, or is it actually finite and perhaps merely beyond our ability to fathom... more than we humans who have evolved on a tiny finite globe are capable of imagining?

    If your premise is flawed, then your conclusion can only be correct by accident.



    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    Criticism blocks the mind, so try and avoid it! Keep your mind open.
    I propose you watch this presentation on being open or narrow minded. It's short, but makes the point rather well (despite being aimed at theists).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
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  13. #12  
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    Mod note:

    A large number of post have been removed due to the fact they consisted of nothing but perosnal insults being tossed back and forth.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus
    A large number of post have been removed due to the fact they consisted of nothing but perosnal insults being tossed back and forth.
    I am at a loss to understand how a request to move a thread to the Trash Can and to ban a member whose contributions are worthless constitutes 'tossing personal insults back and forth'. If I were so inclined I could consider such a a suggestion to be a personal insult.
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  15. #14 Re: My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    "My theory is: If we have an infinite amount of space in the universe; and we have a continuous yet rising acceleration. We can obtain any speed. Whether it is the speed of light, or a speed greater than light. There is no limit to speed."
    This would be true if we did not live in Relativistic universe, but we do, so it isn't.

    What prevents it is the way that velocities add in a Relativistic universe.

    If, in a non-relativistic universe, I have rocket. I can accelerate to a velocity of u and then accelerate by a further velocity v, and have my velocity with respect to where I started be equal to u+v.

    For example, say that I am sitting next to a buoy in space. I accelerate until I reach a speed of 1/10c relative this buoy. I drop a second buoy and then continue to accelerate until I am moving at 1/10c relative to the second buoy. I will be moving at 1/10c + 1/10c = 1/5c relative to the first buoy. If I keep doin this, eventually I'll reach 9/10c, 10/10c 10/10c etc.

    However, in the Relativistic universe in which we live, our speed won't add up like that, instead it adds by the relationship of



    So when I drop the second buoy I will be moving at 20/101c relative to the first buoy not 1/5 c.

    If you look at the formula given, you will note that no matter what speeds u and are the result is less than c. So, no matter how long I accelerate, adding speed to my previous speed, I will never end up with a speed equal to or greater than c.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  16. #15 Time may cease If the answer was yes 
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    Like everybody else said the real answer is no, nothing can go faster than the speed of light this is described by Einstein's theory of relativity and is known as time dilation. I won't go into the details of relativity or time dilation but to break it down the basic premise is if something travels at or near the speed of light time literally slows down. So I deduce that if it was possible to go faster than "c" time would cease to exist. However the universe might be expanding faster than the speed of light because some parts of the universe are receding so fast that light cannot keep up.

    These two youtube videos might clear up any confusion you may have

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3oj1YKIeag
    and
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDvfKdCjjB0[/code]
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  17. #16 Re: My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    "My theory is: If we have an infinite amount of space in the universe; and we have a continuous yet rising acceleration. We can obtain any speed. Whether it is the speed of light, or a speed greater than light. There is no limit to speed."
    I'm sorry Lance, but your theory is wrong. You can make an electron out of light, check out pair production. You really can. An electron has spin angular momentum and magnetic dipole moment, and it can be diffracted. So in simple terms think of it as light going round and round. You're made out of electrons, an electron is "made of light", and since light can't go faster than light, neither can you.
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  18. #17 Re: My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    Really?! i am one of the smartest scientific students in my town!
    that's great, really! but do try to remember your town is not the center or forefront of scientific advancement. Also, for all we know, your town could be an Amish community, in which case the smartest scientific student would simply constitute first school chemistry in the rest of the world.
    Also do remember that even if you are the smartest in your town (something that sounds egotistical and untrue in my opinion) there are far FAR smarter people who are paid to work on this sort of question.


    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    There is no limit to speed.
    Yes. There is. It's called lightspeed and is accepted by the scientific community as the speed limit of matter and energy.



    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    You must think outside of the box, to learn new things.
    indeed you must. However you aren't thinking outside the box, you're simply hitting the box in the hopes it turns out to actually be a circle. Thinking 'outside' the box is already in progress, with concepts like warping space, using black holes to slow time and finding non-velocity based means of transport (like teleportation)



    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    one of my favorite quotes are:
    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." - Albert Einstein
    Good old Albert, and he is so very right. But questioning in this case would be questioning methods around the law, or trying to find a flaw in the mathematics setting the law. You are doing neither, instead you're questioning the by-product of a law (it's equivalent to contending gravities constant existence by showing that something thrown falls faster than something dropped, it misses the fundamental law of gravity, and the mathematics concerning the law)



    From a logical and narrow point of view, your argument is valid, in the same way my arguing that I can reach space by jumping, as long as nothing pulls me down.
    However when I jump, gravities pull reduces my upward velocity, eventually bringing me back down.
    In your argument, while you can accelerate indefinately, the same man you quoted used his mathematics to prove that as matter nears the speed of light, it increases in mass. requiring more energy to maintain or increase velocity, this increases exponentially, so to reach lightspeed, an atom would require an infinite amount of energy (infinite in the truest sense, as in, a non-numerically large quantity) and would become infinitely large.



    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    Criticism blocks the mind, so try and avoid it! Keep your mind open. When your brain hurts, because you cant comprehend what can be beyond what you think. The answer is never complicated, and is very simple. That why it is often over looked!
    I would very much argue the contrary, without criticism, we would still be listening to old men in hats, beliving the world was flat, everything revolved around us, ugly women made crops bad and should be burnt...oh, and there's an almighty, impossibly complex and yet infinitely simple being who created everything in existence yet still listens to every persons very thoughts.



    I hope I'm wrong, but from the style of your second post, I get the feeling no amount of proof, maths science or logic will dissuade you from your belief. It has been proven things become more massive the closer to lightspeed they get, it has been demonstated LS is unachievable simply by increasing velocity, and people far smarter than you and your town have and will tell you as much.

    Question everything, but have the knowledge to know what to question
    It's not how many questions you ask, but the answers you get - Booms

    This is the Acadamy of Science! we don't need to 'prove' anything!
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  19. #18 Re: My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    Really?! i am one of the smartest scientific students in my town!

    "My theory is: If we have an infinite amount of space in the universe; and we have a continuous yet rising acceleration. We can obtain any speed. Whether it is the speed of light, or a speed greater than light. There is no limit to speed."

    That was a summery of my theory, but it explains it very well! You must think outside of the box, to learn new things. one of my favorite quotes are:
    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." - Albert Einstein

    Criticism blocks the mind, so try and avoid it! Keep your mind open. When your brain hurts, because you cant comprehend what can be beyond what you think. The answer is never complicated, and is very simple. That why it is often over looked!
    Do not confuse an open mind with an empty head.

    There is a limit to speed, which is a local concept. That limit is c.

    There is no limit to recession rate due to expansion of space, which is a global concept.
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  20. #19 Warp drive 
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    There is a theoretical chance that recognize physicists
    and it is a warp drive
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  21. #20 Re: Warp drive 
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaiii
    There is a theoretical chance that recognize physicists
    and it is a warp drive
    English isn't your first language, is it?
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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  22. #21 Re: Warp drive 
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Quote Originally Posted by jaiii
    There is a theoretical chance that recognize physicists
    and it is a warp drive
    English isn't your first language, is it?
    Apparently physics is not his second language.
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  23. #22 No 
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    No but I use google translator.

    And what do you thing abot warp theory ?
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  24. #23  
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    And what do you thing abot warp theory ?
    Warp theory from StarTrek, or from some other source?
    http://da_theoretical1.tripod.com/warpcourse.pdf
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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  25. #24 Warp 
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    Yes but try also wiky enciklopedia
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  26. #25 Re: My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    Really?! i am one of the smartest scientific students in my town!

    "My theory is: If we have an infinite amount of space in the universe; and we have a continuous yet rising acceleration. We can obtain any speed. Whether it is the speed of light, or a speed greater than light. There is no limit to speed."

    That was a summery of my theory, but it explains it very well! You must think outside of the box, to learn new things. one of my favorite quotes are:
    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." - Albert Einstein

    Criticism blocks the mind, so try and avoid it! Keep your mind open. When your brain hurts, because you cant comprehend what can be beyond what you think. The answer is never complicated, and is very simple. That why it is often over looked!
    No..........

    If the universe WERE infinate as you suggest then you would find yourself accelerating forever towards the speed of light, but never quite reaching it. To actually reach the speed of light you would need all of the energy available in the universe; and even then, I suspect you still would not reach it. You see, the faster you go the more energy you have; and as energy and mass are equivelants - the more mass you have.........and...........the more mass you have, the more energy required to change the speed or direction of that mass. - The Bugatti Veyron is at present the worlds fastest produciton car with a top speed of 253mph; the Veyron pumps out 1000bhp. It takes just 400bhp to get the car to 180mph; and another 600bhp to squeeze out another 73mph. (not exact figures, but you get the idea!)

    The above is a fundamental problem (without mentioning time dilation which is also a factor in preventing the breaking of the "cant go faster than C law".
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

    www.leohopkins.com
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  27. #26 Re: My theroy, ignorance, and move this to the trash can!! 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    Quote Originally Posted by lanceschroederl@yahoo.com
    "My theory is: If we have an infinite amount of space in the universe; and we have a continuous yet rising acceleration. We can obtain any speed. Whether it is the speed of light, or a speed greater than light. There is no limit to speed."
    I'm sorry Lance, but your theory is wrong. You can make an electron out of light, check out pair production. You really can. An electron has spin angular momentum and magnetic dipole moment, and it can be diffracted. So in simple terms think of it as light going round and round. You're made out of electrons, an electron is "made of light", and since light can't go faster than light, neither can you.
    What does that mean "an electron is made of light"? Just because you can create an electron-positron pair from two photons does not mean that the two particles are composed of photons.
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  28. #27  
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    This is my opinion, dont be confused if its wrong:
    When i start gaining velocity, everything i move away/towards will get time slowed and length contracted, from my point of view. So for every 1 unit of velocity i gain i also gain space contraction.
    Lets imagine a set of object flying away from me at high velocity. they are in line, but the closest one is slowest (0.999c), next is at (0.99999999c), further one at (0.99999999999999999c), and som on.
    Then i start accelerating, i basicly dont move on my own. I force the universe to shift.
    First i will match speed with first object. Others will still be near c, but not so close.
    I will continue to meet all of them, because all i do by pumping power into my engine is shifting universe to match my perspective. Space itself will be more and more contracted (space as space i seen with speed = 0, is nor 1 meter long).

    I belive it is possible, but only for me. If you would try to do the same, you would stall at 0.99+c.

    The interesting part is that someone knowing relativity hasnt though of it. As i wrote at the beggining, maybe i am wrong and there is a symmetry, but i doubt it. Its either one of two:
    - symmetry exists, my knowleadge and understanding is flawed
    - symmetry doesnt exist, only one person is real and life is a singleplayer game with lots of npcs.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by phy_11
    This is my opinion, dont be confused if its wrong:
    When i start gaining velocity, everything i move away/towards will get time slowed and length contracted, from my point of view. So for every 1 unit of velocity i gain i also gain space contraction.
    Lets imagine a set of object flying away from me at high velocity. they are in line, but the closest one is slowest (0.999c), next is at (0.99999999c), further one at (0.99999999999999999c), and som on.
    Then i start accelerating, i basicly dont move on my own. I force the universe to shift.
    First i will match speed with first object. Others will still be near c, but not so close.
    I will continue to meet all of them, because all i do by pumping power into my engine is shifting universe to match my perspective. Space itself will be more and more contracted (space as space i seen with speed = 0, is nor 1 meter long).

    I belive it is possible, but only for me. If you would try to do the same, you would stall at 0.99+c.

    The interesting part is that someone knowing relativity hasnt though of it. As i wrote at the beggining, maybe i am wrong and there is a symmetry, but i doubt it. Its either one of two:
    - symmetry exists, my knowleadge and understanding is flawed
    - symmetry doesnt exist, only one person is real and life is a singleplayer game with lots of npcs.
    Your post is rather difficult to follow, but I think you have the gist of relativity.

    John von Neumann once repoorted a car wreck (he was a poor driver) as follows:""I was proceeding down the road. The trees on the right were passing me in orderly fashion at 60 miles per hour. Suddenly one of them stepped in my path."
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  30. #29  
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    To be specific on what other contributors have been saying about special relativity, Einstiens theory states that it is impossible to go the speed of light because the faster you go, the more energy it takes to sustain and advance the speed. Einstien calculated that to reach the speed of light you would need an infinite amount of energy. I also thought the "we are made out of light theory put forward- I thought about that too, though for different reasons. A complete idea that I had on the subject is poted in the Just an Idea... forum. I included other things, but I would love if someone could go take it apart.
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  31. #30  
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    the more energy it takes to sustain
    im sorry? what?

    einstein also said, that the faster you go the more world outside is contracted, and time go slower.

    you need to travel 10 light years.
    Due to length contraciton its only 0.1 light year. And due to time dilatation, you make it even faster, if you dont die from old age.
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  32. #31  
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    From youre frame of refernce, you will still be going inder the speed of light.
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  33. #32 FTL my theory 
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    If I isolated my space ship in bule from negative energi from Casimir efect and strong magnetic field and rotational mass. I thing my space ship is separated from otgoing space . And relativistic efect can by worked no my ship.
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