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Thread: why is not posible to send info with entangled tripletes?

  1. #1 why is not posible to send info with entangled tripletes? 
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    all right so alice has one atom of the entangled triplet and bob the other two atoms

    bob is gonna always measure in horizontal basis

    so alice sends a message by measuring in the horizontal basis or vertical

    when bob measures always in the horizontal basis he will know in what basis did alice measure by having two equals or two differents values in the tripletes

    why is this wrong?


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  3. #2 Interesting paper 
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    I know very little about entanglement but I recently read a very interesting paper on it and the uncertainty principal:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1118141541.htm

    I think the results sets limits on how much the entanglement phenomena can be exploited.


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  4. #3 Re: Interesting paper 
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoJo98221
    I know very little about entanglement but I recently read a very interesting paper on it and the uncertainty principal:
    Worry not. You know A LOT more than does luxtpm.
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  5. #4  
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    oh yes but if somone answered this question i could know more

    is it bad trying to understand why i cant send info fastest than light with entanglement? you can win games this way

    or i just have to believe it to know a lot and pray it six times a day
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  6. #5  
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    the basis thing measurement is here easy explained:

    http://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/f...CC05screen.pdf

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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    is it bad trying to understand why i cant send info fastest than light with entanglement? you can win games this way
    That's one reason
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  8. #7 Re: why is not posible to send info with entangled tripletes 
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm

    when bob measures always in the horizontal basis he will know in what basis did alice measure by having two equals or two differents values in the tripletes

    why is this wrong?
    He will always measure two equal values. That is how entanglement works. Am I right?
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  9. #8  
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    if they measure in same basis they always get equal values if they measure in different basis they get different or equal values

    thats the way subtle info is sent you measure in either one base or the other

    but this is not info perse just a method to wwin wich without you woludnt win

    but i dont see why can you send info with a triplet

    plz somebody explain it to me so i can learn more

    im not discussing the dogma im trying to understand it
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  10. #9 well 
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    dont measure 50% tru , measure 75% then transmit it. in precenteg and multiply it for whid information .
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  12. #11  
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    The problem is that while it's true that Alice and Bob will always measure the same (or the opposite) results, they have no idea what result the other got. So Alice measure Horizontal with a 50/50 heads/tails result. She gets heads. Now when Bob goes to measure his particle, he will get heads, but he doesn't know that. The only way he could is if Alice told him, but then there was a slower than light transfer of information. Without that, it's still 50/50 whether or not he'll get heads or tails. (Alice doesn't even really know whether she measured first or not, and relativity says that the question is meaningless anyway unless they get together at some point and compare notes.)

    Now, if you're saying that you can take an entangled die into a casino and cheat, well yeah, but so what. There's no faster than light transfer of information, and there are easier ways to cheat.
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  13. #12  
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    yes but this is not an entangled pair but a triplete

    bob will have the info of in what basis alice measured by having equal or unequal values when he measure in his two atoms of the triplete

    why is this wrong?
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  14. #13  
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    "The problem is that while it's true that Alice and Bob will always measure the same (or the opposite) results"

    this is only true if they measure in the same basis
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  15. #14 well 
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    The problem is that while it's true that Alice and Bob will always measure the same (or the opposite) results, they have no idea what result the other got. So Alice measure Horizontal with a 50/50 heads/tails result. She gets heads. Now when Bob goes to measure his particle, he will get heads, but he doesn't know that. The only way he could is if Alice told him, but then there was a slower than light transfer of information. Without that, it's still 50/50 whether or not he'll get heads or tails. (Alice doesn't even really know whether she measured first or not, and relativity says that the question is meaningless anyway unless they get together at some point and compare notes.)

    Now, if you're saying that you can take an entangled die into a casino and cheat, well yeah, but so what. There's no faster than light transfer of information, and there are easier ways to cheat.
    you can use a dOuble simetrix divic to over let the distense , agin you get statistic info and you have to multiple it to get stable info . thanks
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  16. #15  
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    No thanks. That's completely unreadable.

    @luxtpm, how are the three particles entangled? Just saying there are three particles doesn't make much difference.

    Not that it really matters. No matter which direction Alice chooses to measure in, it won't change what Bob measures. If Alice measured horizontally and got heads, or measured vertically and got tails, Bob would get heads from measuring horizontally either way.

    The point is, no matter which way you set up the particles, you can't do anything to them that'd let you know what someone else did to them. Only when you get together and compare notes does the entanglement show up.
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  17. #16 So 
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    No thanks. That's completely unreadable.

    @luxtpm, how are the three particles entangled? Just saying there are three particles doesn't make much difference.

    Not that it really matters. No matter which direction Alice chooses to measure in, it won't change what Bob measures. If Alice measured horizontally and got heads, or measured vertically and got tails, Bob would get heads from measuring horizontally either way.

    The point is, no matter which way you set up the particles, you can't do anything to them that'd let you know what someone else did to them. Only when you get together and compare notes does the entanglement show up.
    So how you know thay entangle ?
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    yes but this is not an entangled pair but a triplete

    bob will have the info of in what basis alice measured by having equal or unequal values when he measure in his two atoms of the triplete

    why is this wrong?
    How could he measure unequal values on entangled particles?
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  19. #18 Agin 
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    Agin in a double simetrix divic I can chose when to take in cunte
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  20. #19 Re: Agin 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Water Nosfim
    Agin in a double simetrix divic I can chose when to take in count
    Take in count statistic
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  21. #20  
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    yes but thats the crux if you have two particles of an entangled triplet either you get:

    100% same value or 50 percent same value depending on the basis you measure

    so you know if you measure in the same basis or not than alice:

    you get the same value for the two atoms of the triplet:

    you know alice mesaured in same basis

    you get different values in the two atoms of the triplet:

    you know you measured in different basis than alice

    i admit seems imposible to send info with an entangle pair but seems posible to me and thats why i want to know where im wrong to send info with a triplet in which the sender has one atom and the receiver two atoms

    from being a pair to being a triplet the thing changes a lot
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twit of wit
    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm
    yes but this is not an entangled pair but a triplete

    bob will have the info of in what basis alice measured by having equal or unequal values when he measure in his two atoms of the triplete

    why is this wrong?
    How could he measure unequal values on entangled particles?
    he will measure differen values if both measure in different basis

    its here quite simple:

    http://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/f...CC05screen.pdf
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  23. #22  
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    Reread page 43 of that. There's still no communication nor transfer of information. They won't know whether they've won or lost until they can communicate again.

    You've tried this exact same argument before. You cannot communicate using entanglement, regardless of how many entangled particles you have. That doesn't mean they can't do a lot of neat stuff, just that breaking light-speed isn't one of them.
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  24. #23 Well 
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    The state collapse , its movement back in time
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  25. #24  
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    Last edited by mattswg; August 6th, 2014 at 02:06 AM.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattswg
    2nd second i get 50%
    50% of what?
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