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Thread: Is this right

  1. #1 Is this right 
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    A spaceship travelling to and back from star light years away at a very high velocity would experience a time difference between the spaceship and the outside observer.

    To my understanding, the time in the spaceship could be days while time to the outside observer could be decades.

    If this is true, from my understanding, the closer matter with mass gets to the speed of light the greater the time fluctuation. This fluctuation becomes infinitely slow as it approaches the actual speed of light.

    So the speed of matter falling into a black hole is so violent that the speed of light is actually achieved. In essence stopping time.

    Does this mean that the 4 dimensional space-time of matter in the world we understand is stripped of time when falling into a black hole? And also, because time is stopped, so is its movement into the back hole, in essence stripping it from another space dimension.

    This would mean that 4 dimensional information is transformed into 2 dimensional information at the event horizon.


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  3. #2 Re: Is this right 
    Moderator Moderator Janus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjr150
    A spaceship travelling to and back from star light years away at a very high velocity would experience a time difference between the spaceship and the outside observer.

    To my understanding, the time in the spaceship could be days while time to the outside observer could be decades.

    If this is true, from my understanding, the closer matter with mass gets to the speed of light the greater the time fluctuation. This fluctuation becomes infinitely slow as it approaches the actual speed of light.

    So the speed of matter falling into a black hole is so violent that the speed of light is actually achieved. In essence stopping time.
    The speed of light is never achieved. For one thing, the gravity of the black hole itself slows time, so the an outside observer will never see the falling mass ever enter the black hole.

    Does this mean that the 4 dimensional space-time of matter in the world we understand is stripped of time when falling into a black hole? And also, because time is stopped, so is its movement into the back hole, in essence stripping it from another space dimension.

    This would mean that 4 dimensional information is transformed into 2 dimensional information at the event horizon.
    Sorry, but this last bit is just such much word salad, and meaningless. All that happens is that the outside observer sees the mass falling slower and slower towards the black hole as it nears it. Never coming to a complete stop but never quite reaching the black hole either.


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    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  4. #3  
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    You're probably right, it's salad. You know, when you consider a point, it's infinitely small. That means when you get down to the smallest x-y-z measurable size as we know, you can still go smaller than this measurement at a size that is comparable to a grain of sand as is to the earth.

    When you get down to that smaller size, you can imagine getting smaller yet again using the same ratio. You can continue this over and over again and my mind can't comprehend this.

    Mathematically, this is called a singularity. Hawkins referrers to the event horizon as a singularity as well. I'm just trying to see if someone like myself can imagine what is happening without the math.
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  5. #4  
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    There is avast difference between a singularity, if such a thing can exist, and the event horizon. The event horizon is observable, by indirect means, the singularity would not ever be. It cannot exist naked and must separate itself from space/time with the event horizon.
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  6. #5 Re: Is this right 
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus

    Sorry, but this last bit is just such much word salad, and meaningless. All that happens is that the outside observer sees the mass falling slower and slower towards the black hole as it nears it. Never coming to a complete stop but never quite reaching the black hole either.
    Does the fact that we don't see it happen from the outside mean we also don't experience it to have happened in other ways? Are gravity waves slowed down in the same way as light waves are slowed down?

    Suppose we saw a very massive object reach the event horizon and not fall into it, and then we did some gravitational lensing measurements to determine where that object is located right now (assuming the object were massive enough to contribute noticeably to this effect). Would our measurements tell us that the massive object is still located at the event horizon?
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