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Thread: Bad science and gravity wells

  1. #1 Bad science and gravity wells 
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    How many of us who watch a 'serious' science programe on tv to do with
    spacetime and gravity wells, are so seriously deceived.
    Every broadcast I ever saw depicted a gravity well in two dimensions.
    as the deformation of a mesh by a large body.
    Nothing is further from the truth. The gravitational well has 3 dimensions,
    not 2. As an independant observer, is not gravity the same to me at the north
    pole as it is at the south pole, or for that matter, at the same altitude, anywhere
    on earth. A large mass in space does not create a well in spacetime, it contracts
    space and time around it in a uniform way.
    Nokton.


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  3. #2 Re: Bad science and gravity wells 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokton
    How many of us who watch a 'serious' science programe on tv to do with spacetime and gravity wells, are so seriously deceived.
    Deception implies a deliberate effort to mislead. The presentation of gravity fields in two dimensions is intended to simplify and thus promote understanding. Using your approach I could argue that speaking of a gravity well in such a metaphorical manner is deceptive. I could argue that a three dimensional representation is deceptive, because it does not explicitly contain the mathematics, which is the only way to describe the situation umabiguously and free of deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by nokton
    Nothing is further from the truth. The gravitational well has 3 dimensions, not 2. .
    So a one dimensional representation of a gravity well would be further from the truth, making your statement wrong.

    I believe, nokton, you are failing to appreciate the necessity of simplification in explanations of science at almost every level that is not that of a true expert. I cannot think of a single explanation I have given on this or any other forum that did not involve a degree of simplification. I cannot recall any post I have seen - and understood - that did not involve simplificaiton. Your own post is a gross simplification. I don't have a problem with that: it seems that you do.


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  4. #3 Bad science and gravity wells 
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    Ophiolite, thanx your post. I appreciate your concern for a simple description
    of science, but all too often that leads to a misrepresentation of what is true.
    To dwell on the present description of gravity wells, please allow me.
    To an independent observer in space, observing a star during an eclipse
    of our sun, would see what Albert predicted, the bending of light as it encounters
    the gavity of our sun.
    My point Ophiolite, was and is, no matter the observed angle by the observer,
    side, top or bottom of the sun, the bending of the light path would be the same.
    So where is there a well? Would suggest not as we know a well, but a
    configuration of gravity and spacetime we do not understand at this time.
    nokton.
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  5. #4 Re: Bad science and gravity wells 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope MagiMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokton
    Ophiolite, thanx your post. I appreciate your concern for a simple description
    of science, but all too often that leads to a misrepresentation of what is true.
    To dwell on the present description of gravity wells, please allow me.
    To an independent observer in space, observing a star during an eclipse
    of our sun, would see what Albert predicted, the bending of light as it encounters
    the gavity of our sun.
    My point Ophiolite, was and is, no matter the observed angle by the observer,
    side, top or bottom of the sun, the bending of the light path would be the same.
    So where is there a well? Would suggest not as we know a well, but a
    configuration of gravity and spacetime we do not understand at this time.
    nokton.
    I don't know about you, but the description as a well and the pictures of a 2D dent (and I've seen shows that show it in 3D too) all fit together pretty well for me. I'm pretty sure people who have actually studied GR understand all of this just fine.
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  6. #5 Gravity wells 
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    Thanx your response Ophiolite, you commented that those who understood GM
    would understand, that they may, but the TV programe was aimed at Joe Public.
    Research in science is much funded by the taxpayer, Joe Public.
    Joe is not of science, but has an interest, ( apart from football, sex and soaps )
    in people like you providing a meaning to his existence. And in his quiet time,
    dwells upon this more than you may understand.
    As an aside, my friend, the north wind brings winters cold to your door,
    mine, a little later.
    nokton.
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