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Thread: Heeeey A curious experiment I'll bet you can't solve it!

  1. #1 Heeeey A curious experiment I'll bet you can't solve it! 
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    Here's a curious experiment see if you can guess what will happen and more importantly figure out why it does what it does, to date no one seems to have given a clear answer, no one seems to know how this works including myself.

    take a bar magnet and tie a string in the middle, then suspend it and twist up the string or rubber band whichever you like so that when released the magnet will spin such that the poles are rotating parrellel to the horizon( you can put a small electric motor to the end of the string also which is what I did eventually it works better). Now that your magnet is spinning take another magnet in hand and hold either pole next to the spinning magnet, here's where you guess what will happen, given the north end of the pole is going to rotate around to the stationary magnet pole just as often as the south end common sense would say it should not move- nothing should happen maybe some vibrations, but does the spinning magnet repel from the stationary one, stay where it is, or attract to it? I'll answer below so don't look down yet.






    Oddly the spinning magnet always attracts to the stationary one, why it does this I don't know and I wonder if someone would care to attempt to explain why...after 2 years I haven't found anyone who could or maybe they just don't care to explain it or i'm not explaining it right. I have a feeling that this is of no real importance as will end in misery and great frustration on the part of everyone who participates in it's discussion


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  3. #2  
    Forum Freshman Captain_Anubis's Avatar
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    Well the north-south attraction force is probably stronger than the north-north repulsion force... Are there different equations to figure out repulsion and attraction forces of magnets given a certain distance between the magnets? I don't know, maybe someone else does..


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  4. #3  
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    1st this, when u have 1 uniform magnetic bar one side is N pole other is S pole N |======|S when u brake it let say on middle u get 2 magnets
    but how they form new poles, that is intresting part instead on breaking point to form something like this N|===|S + N|===|S they form this

    S|===|N + N|===|S from this N |======|S , now u wonder why i mentioned this well when u try to reatach them they push away each other but noone seems to talk here about other part of magnet ok here lil trick, when u push same magnetic fields together they fight stronger to push away each other anyone know why ? anyone know why? it cause forest of electron repel faster and faster while same magnetic poles are closer together causing that magnetic field RISE on bouth oposit sides of magnets well here go ur trick when in circling magnet come to N to N touch we have 1 force that react to repel, ok it repel it but while repeling other sides of magnets increase their field strenght so when c0ome S to N it have more force field to atract it then N side had to repel it but this only happen if magnets that rotate, rotate itself in wery high speed, the speed that faster rotate for 180ยบ in part of second than eather magnet reastabilish his iner balance in other part of second. that is fast btw.
    in lower speed there form vibrations that alow iner balance to acheew before other poles reach eachother. i used this trick once in 1 project but i didn need 2 YEARS to figure it out man!!! what ur education background?@??!?!
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  5. #4  
    Forum Junior Vroomfondel's Avatar
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    I have an explination for this phenomenon. The first thing you must realize is that both solutions thus far have only considered the strait N-N and N-S repulsions and attractions, But the fact of the matter is that one must consider the entire revolution of the spinning magnet.

    Consider the following: when moving through its revolution, the south pole of the spinning magnet will always be attracted STRAIGHT toward the north pole of the stationary magnet. This means that there will be an attraction toward the stationary magnet. Now, Intuition tells us that the opposite will occur with the north pole of the spinning magnet. But we only think this because our minds are accustumed to thinking about problems with stationary parts. Now, consider the following: as the north pole of the spinning magnet approaches the north pole of the stationary magnet, one would think that the repulsion that occurs would exectly balance the attraction. But it doesnt. Why? The repulsion does not cause the spinning magnet to move STRAIGHT away. The repulsion can merely cause the north pole of the spinning magnet to deflect from the north pole of the stationary magnet in the up or down direction. Thus, there is little or no change in the spinning magnets position due to the N-N repulsion, while the attraction of the N-S still exists. Thus, the net effect of the N-S attraction and the N-N deflection cause the spinning magnet to move toward the stationary magnet. Q.E.D.

    Is that good enough for you? 8)

    P.S.- I have broken magnets before, and you always get N|===|S + N|===|S from N |======|S
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  6. #5  
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    This is a very different and probobly wrong theory ,but If you brake everything down everything energy magnetism ect. ect. are all just motion (I might be wrong on that) so it just might be posible that the movement is also causing stronger attactions. dont take me seriously I'm probobly wrong.
    PS thell me if thats possible!
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  7. #6  
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    Vroomfondel, that makes totally sense now.

    But:

    What if the rotating magnet isn't attached to a rubber string, but hinged (plastic hinges) in its center, so that it can only spin horizontally (and not lean down or up when N-N are coming close)

    It's probably the same outcome, but maybe less radically.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
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    Hmm.. i think.. the magnet turns to be neutral energy (if spinning really fast)

    positive and negative poles can attract to neutral, because compared to the positive pole, the neutral pole is negative, and the other way around..

    Compare it with lightning, a positive (or negative) cloud, and the neutral earth. They do hit the earth (as being neutral).

    i bet the total attraction force is exactly half of the force what a +/- reaction from the 2 magnets would create. Because the 1 magnet is neutralised.

    (my guess)
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  9. #8  
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    well, the 2 magnets would look like this:


    N====S S====N

    but since one is spinning, say the right one is, it would spin another 180 degrees until:

    N====S N====S.

    the reason is the S-S repulsion would just add to the momentum of the spin until it is S-N, which would attract each other, stopping motion while attracting each other to stop the momentum, so they would look like this:

    N====S N====S

    and so the mystery is solved.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    I would say that vroomdel's explanation is pretty good and chamilton333 is pretty close, and Nikola is completely wrong about the way magnets break as vroomdel suggested.

    But to vroomdel's explanation I can add a couple of clarifying points. First consider what happens when you push one magnet towards another (which is free to move) same poles together. Quite often what you get is not repulsion but the free magnet flipping over so that it is attracted instead of repulsed. This is explained by the ideas of stability and torque.

    Torque is the rotational analog of force. Torque is on an object will cause it to rotate (i.e. give it rotational acceleration). When two magnets are in proximity there is not only a force between them but also a torque. So, when the opposite poles of two magnets come into proximity you have a stable situation because any slight deviation from perfect alignment will cause there to be a torque on the free magnet making in rotate in the direction of better alignment. However when the same poles of two magnets come into proximity you have an unstable situation (like balancing a pencil on its point) where any slight deviation from perfect alignment will cause there to be a torque on the free magnet away from alignment.

    Now back to the rotating magnet. Hanging on the end of a string or rubber band gives it the rotating magnet much too much free range of motion with complications like the tilting vroomdel suggested, but also the freedom to move toward the held magnet and away from it, and all of these motions will affect the net force. Now it would be interesting to try the same experiment where the rotating magnet does not have this freedom of motion for my analysis suggest that you may get repulsion rather than attraction. [reasoning: While the opposite pole of the rotating magnet is approaching the attraction will cause the rotation to speed up (actually the repulsion toward the same pole that is receding will also cause the rotation to speed up). However when the opposite pole is moving away this attraction will cause the rotation to slow down. Conversely, while the same pole is approaching the repulsion will cause the rotation to slow down and while the same pole is receding it will cause the rotation to speed up. The result is that the rotating magent will be rotating fastest when the opposite pole is nearest and rotating slowest when the same pole is nearest. But this means that the same ends will be in proximity for a longer time than the opposite ends will be, which suggests that you should get a net repulsion not attraction.]
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  11. #10  
    Forum Junior Vroomfondel's Avatar
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    Thats pretty much what i was thinking, but i wasnt sure how to talk about it .
    I demand that my name may or may not be vroomfondel!
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