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Thread: 0 degrees kelvin

  1. #1 0 degrees kelvin 
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
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    is that really the lowest? isn't there a lower temperature possible?

    i would say that it would be the lowest temperature known to man (don't know if we achieved it). but if cooling down can slow down every particle of the atom, maybe we have reached a new energy scource.. if supercooling an atom makes it fall apart into fotons (or other energy)

    or doesn't this sound reasonable? lolz.. was just bored..


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  3. #2  
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    By convintinal standards absolute zero has to do with macroscopic systems and MINIMAL movement. It is said, though, that it is not the lowest temperature achievable.

    Who knows?
    Heisenberg may have been here.


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    supercooling a atom wil only stop a electron capabilities to swich orbit but allso with this u negotate fotons,
    allso in super cool due Maxwel equations that say Electrostatic and electromagnetic canot denay each other in
    same time that, forget falling apart of atom, example if u supercool some metal and u hit it with hammer
    it will break, but how, if u rearange broken parts ull se that they are fracture in direction of ur hit,
    that is distribution of energy, ur hit canot be acepted or transfred in to heat or oscilation magnetic or
    electrostatic field so fast it just spread in direction of ur hit. Why break then, cause part of atoms
    that acepted ur hit got their part of energy and ditributre it in direction of ur hit and start shrinking
    while other didnt, that make breaking(efect of supper conductor). no matter if u acheew minus infinity temperature u cant colaps atom
    but u can acheew a infinite energy generator due to Maxvel. Find out somewhere ZPE Zero Point Energy
    ull find it wery interesting topic. o btw minimum heat in theory is "slovest speed" of electron in athom orbit
    of a hydrogen. What this slowest speen mean i realy dont know!!!!
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    It is the bottom of temperature. It is 0. There is nothing colder than absolute zero because absolute zero is the absence of heat, and is not achievable on an object.
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    Temperature is motion.
    How can you say that all motion has stopped on a quantum level?

    I thought zero-point energy was the lowest possible energy state on a quantum level.

    Please explain.
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    im not scientist, JET, :P, i saided stop from jumping from one energy level to other cause there no external energy to help them do so(super conductor efect), not stop because if i say stop ill be a idiot and ill negate big part of logic, yet there a temperatures lesser than 0 not just apsent of motion, it so rough way to put it, conwersion of energy and disipation of that energy make presence of "TEMPERATURE" not pure motion. in superconductor cooling an element u make all his electrons to go on lover levels close to core and if any suden rise of energy is comed acros electron just pass by trough uper energy states without geting chance to substitute it position with one of present on lower levels. no disipation of energy is no swiching energy, levels kinetic energy of itself it enough to continue its jurney.
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    hmm, still. i think it's worth a try. though i don't know how to achieve those cold temperatures.

    if there are heat waves, maybe there is something like a cold wave (a straigt wave). the wave will come out the other way with bends.. that'll be the heat energy.. and if there is isolation enough it can be supercooled... by my guess..

    (wave 0E) ----------------(atom 10E) --> (atom 0E) ~~~~~~~~ (wave 10E)

    sounds possible in my ears :P
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    u know some peoples say that fotons are PURE PURE energy better say a pure energy that is transwered and shared betwine neighbour atoms and that they ocur all time and and inside of any matherial, but that energy is acepted of all toms in neighbour and allso IT CAN BE DIRECTED, 1st laser
    what is laser it just alot stram of fotons that go in same directin (easiest explonation) but 1 thing that peoples neglect about lasers is that when u make gass laser IT LIGHT IN 2 DIRECTIONS forward and BACKWARD emision is directed in 1 straight line and that energy with reference in point of foton emsion and direction of panels, u say he have 10 e and u owertake that 10 e POSIBLE pruf on thing i damn posted on this forum is PELTIER efect that say changing of density of curent u can creat heat or cold if u can make +infinite resistence on other side and u can actualy make + infinite potencial diference on that side closest point that have potential 0 will froze to point of this up i wroted( post before this) ull in actualy make all extra kinetic energy TAKEN AWAY and make down side wery cool and allso superconducted that will increase efect trought time
    (wierd why i always come acros on superconductor efect?!?!?! or it just u chasing that one lol)
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    i think without that theory.. not implemented in my brain yet.. maybe later..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  11. #10 Absolute Zero 
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    Absolute zero has never been attained; in fact, the lowest temperature ever recorded--tested in the atom Rhodium--is 0.0000000001 degrees K. The scientists did this by using lasers to halt the momentum of the electrons in the atom, causing it to decrease in temperature dramatically. Absolute zero is supposedly unattainable because when absolute zero is reached, all movement on a quantum level has stopped, and is no longer an object with mass. It is physically impossible to reach absolute zero with the technology we have now. Just like supercritical fluids exist when a mass is heated and under extreme pressure, I would like to think that a new, unheard of mass will exist if absolute zero is ever attained.
    I would like to clarify a question asked. Someone mentioned a "cold wave." There is no such thing; rather, cold is the absence of heat. This fact can be related to colors. White, essentially, is not a color, but an absence of color. Cold exists because heat is absent, and white exists because color is absent.
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    Absolute zero will never be reached. this is proven by the uncertainty principle. and while indeed there is no such thing as a cold wave it is not due to an absence of heat. hot and cold are merely different states of momentum, you feel hot because you touch something with atoms that are vibrating faster than you (this energy is then transfered to you in the form of heat); the feeling of cold is then the same concept (try the classic experiment of taking three glasses: one hot, one ice cold and one room temp. dip your hand in the hot for 30 sec or so and then put it in the room temp; it will fee cold. take your other hand and dip it in the cold for 30 sec or so; again dip it in the room temp, it will now feel hot)

    ps. white is all colors, black is a material that absorbs all wavelengths
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    It is true that hot and cold are different states of momentum, but a main reason it is cold is due to the absence of heat. For example, if you were to hold a metal pole that is outside in the snow with your hand, after a while the part where you touched the pole will become warm. This is because heat from your body was transfered to the pole. Your hand, contrarily, will feel cold because heat left it, NOT because cold transfered to your hand. It is a reasonable and proven conclusion that cold exists because of the absence of heat. As a rebuttle to the three glasses example, if you dip your hand into the hot water the heat will be transfered to your hand. If you subsequently dip your hand into the room temperature water the heat will transfer from your hand to the water, and this transfer of heat from your hand to the water will make it feel cold.

    As far as colors are concerned, they can be thought of in two ways. First, there is additive mixing (where the light is absorbed and the color you see is the color bouncing back) and there is subtractive color mixing (where the light is not absorbed, rather emitted). A good example is the difference between the color of a star and the color of a t-shirt. A white star, for example, is white because all of the primary colors (blue, red, green) are emitted and their corresponding wavelength and frequency cancel each other out to produce white light. Stars emit light; they don't absorb light. A t-shirt is white because all of the light waves are not absorbed and bounce back from the t-shirt, making it look white. T-shirts are black because all of the light is absorbed and, essentially, there is no color left to be relected or trasmitted. You can either think that white is a lack of color because all lightwaves are not absorbed and bounce back, or you can think that white is full of color because all the lightwaves are emitted from it. The discrepancy is due to the additive and subtractive color mixing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    hmm, still. i think it's worth a try. though i don't know how to achieve those cold temperatures.

    if there are heat waves, maybe there is something like a cold wave (a straigt wave). the wave will come out the other way with bends.. that'll be the heat energy.. and if there is isolation enough it can be supercooled... by my guess..

    (wave 0E) ----------------(atom 10E) --> (atom 0E) ~~~~~~~~ (wave 10E)

    sounds possible in my ears :P
    I actually know someone who does superconducter research at 0.0001 K. You can't cause a substance to reach 0K for many reasons, the most practical however is that to reach 0K you have to go beyond 0.(infinity of 0's)1 K, which will not happen.

    I would like to clarify a question asked. Someone mentioned a "cold wave." There is no such thing; rather, cold is the absence of heat.
    Thank you, I have to say this alot and I feel like a broken record.[/quote]
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    well.. it was some kind of laser.. that could be called a cold wave..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  16. #15  
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    You are all trying to make this a lot more complicated than it is.

    There is no possible temperature colder than absolute zero because temperature is a measure of thermal energy, and by definition at absolute zero there is no thermal energy left. It's that simple.
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    in reply to mr. mills,

    */It is true that hot and cold are different states of momentum, but a main reason it is cold is due to the absence of heat.*/

    No. hot and cold are merely our perception of different states of momentum. so there is no absence of heat, just less momentum(on the atomic level).

    */As a rebuttle to the three glasses example, if you dip your hand into the hot water the heat will be transfered to your hand. If you subsequently dip your hand into the room temperature water the heat will transfer from your hand to the water, and this transfer of heat from your hand to the water will make it feel cold.*/

    use two room temperature glasses. it will turn out the same (see the above point). besides, the momentum you transfer from your hand to the glass will not be enough to noticeably raise temp (that is a problem with our sensory resolution).
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    You are all trying to make this a lot more complicated than it is.

    There is no possible temperature colder than absolute zero because temperature is a measure of thermal energy, and by definition at absolute zero there is no thermal energy left. It's that simple.
    i'm not referring to thermal energy.. i'm referring to motion energy.. because motion energy of an atom is thermal energy. And at absolute zero, there is still motion in the core.. without motion in the core the atom will get instabile and fall apart in fotons or other energy..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  19. #18  
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    Absolute 0 is the absense of motion in conventional physics and minimal motion in quantum physics. Saying that an object's temperature is less than absulote 0 would either imply it has imaginary motion, and thus negative kenetic energy, or that Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle is incorrect.
    I demand that my name may or may not be vroomfondel!
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    this is the way I look at why it's not achievable....sorta

    okay E=MC^2
    E= Energy
    M=Mass
    C^2= The speed of light Squared

    okay so at absolute 0 we have no energy correct?
    well in order to get E at 0 either M or C^2 has to be 0 meaning that it that it very well could be achievable but as soon as it becomes absolute 0 the mass would have to be 0 or C^2 would be dropped to 0 meaning that it would
    A. Dissapeir(spelling)
    or
    B. Stop moving within space-time.

    uuh input would be cool
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  21. #20  
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    E=MC^2 is probably one of the most commonly missused formulas in physics. E represents the energy that a body has SOLELY from its existence. It simply states the following: Energy of a body at rest is its mass times 9x10^16. The speed of light is a constant of the universe that can never be changed EVER!

    Thus, absolute 0 is NOT the absence of energy! Absolute 0 is the absence of kenetic ebergy.
    I demand that my name may or may not be vroomfondel!
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  22. #21  
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    ic~~~ thanks for that
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  23. #22  
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    temperature is random motion on atoms/molecules, so when there is no motion youve reached absolute 0, and at 0°K there no motion, logicly u cant go lower cause u cant have negative motion
    the only possible way for it to be lower would be with imaginary velocity, what the hell that is i dont know
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  24. #23  
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    Hmm. still it would be a genius way to create energy..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    temperature is random motion on atoms/molecules, so when there is no motion youve reached absolute 0, and at 0°K there no motion, logicly u cant go lower cause u cant have negative motion
    the only possible way for it to be lower would be with imaginary velocity, what the hell that is i dont know
    A very common misconception! Even at absolute zero there is still some slight vibration energy in molecules. At absolute zero you have removed all of the vibration energy that could possibly be removed, but there will still be a small amount that is inherent to the system.
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  26. #25  
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    E=1,5kT
    E~mv^2/2
    mv^2/2=1,5kt
    v^2=3kT/m
    v=sqr(3kT/m)
    T=0
    then v=sqr(3*k*0/m)=0
    logicly with 0 velocity there is no movement, and if the molecules them,selves vibrate it will in someway be konvertet into movement wich then is temperature. So for it to be absolute 0 it gotta be absolute 0 velocity. and vibration
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    E=1,5kT
    E~mv^2/2
    mv^2/2=1,5kt
    v^2=3kT/m
    v=sqr(3kT/m)
    T=0
    then v=sqr(3*k*0/m)=0
    logicly with 0 velocity there is no movement, and if the molecules them,selves vibrate it will in someway be konvertet into movement wich then is temperature. So for it to be absolute 0 it gotta be absolute 0 velocity. and vibration
    Unfortunately classical thermodynamic equations don't tell the whole story. Quantum physics tells us that the vibrational energy of two atoms linked in a molecule is proportional to 1/2+n, where n is the principle quantum number. At absolute zero the molecules will all have a principle quantum number of 0, but note that since it's proportional to 1/2+n there is still a small energy component even at absolute zero.

    A better explanation can be found here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ntum/hosc.html
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  28. #27  
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    okey, that was more than i know, thx for correcting me
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