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Thread: validty of relativity

  1. #1 validty of relativity 
    Forum Freshman chicken_boy's Avatar
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    Modern physics is founded on relativity and quantum theory. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, relativity forces a locality constraint on physical theory; spatially remote events cannot influence each other. On the other hand it has in recent years become evident that quantum mechanics violates this restriction. If we assume the validity of Bell’s theorem and the soundness of such experiments as Aspect’s; then no local theory is completely compatible with the predictions of quantum theory. A contradiction exists between the main foundations of physics.

    Is this contradiction because relativity itself is fundamentally flawed or is it our interpretation of its consequences that is wrong?


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    My own suspicion is the problem lies in the fact we don't know all about Relativity or Quantum Mechanics. Much like Galileo's and Newton's work; they were right (by and large), but not complete.

    Many 'contradictions' cited in modern science are by those who think we should knew everything by now. 'Tain't so.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie
    My own suspicion is the problem lies in the fact we don't know all about Relativity or Quantum Mechanics.
    we dont know exactly everything about anything else either.......
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  5. #4 Re: validty of relativity 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicken_boy
    Modern physics is founded on relativity and quantum theory. Since nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, relativity forces a locality constraint on physical theory; spatially remote events cannot influence each other. On the other hand it has in recent years become evident that quantum mechanics violates this restriction. If we assume the validity of Bell’s theorem and the soundness of such experiments as Aspect’s; then no local theory is completely compatible with the predictions of quantum theory. A contradiction exists between the main foundations of physics.

    Is this contradiction because relativity itself is fundamentally flawed or is it our interpretation of its consequences that is wrong?
    No physicist thinks that relativity is flawed.

    Bell's inequality was derived from 3 assumptions
    1. Logic is valid.
    2. Hidden variables exist. (There is a reality separate from observation)
    3. Hidden variables are local (Locality or relativity)
    Only one of these must be false. And it is generally presumed that it is 2 and not 1 or 3 which is false. Even the very rare physicist like David Bohm who considered that 3 might be the one that was false did not think that this meant that relativity was flawed but only that there are elements of reality which are non-local.

    Regardless of which assumption is false, reductionist determinism is dead. The violation of Bell's inequality means that we must accept that there are events which have no causes within the space-time structure of events in the universe accepted as the basic reality in physics.

    The weak link is clearly 2. Only extreme prejudice and presumption by certain physicists causes them to cling to 2 in defiance of the evidence. Both relativity and the failure of Bell's inequality are experimentally confirmed therefore it is 2 which must be abandoned in physics.

    Now if you step out of physics into religion or philosophy then you can believe in hidden variables outside local reality -- outside the space-time structure of events in the physical universe. You may posit some wholistic aspect to reality, or you may posit some aspect of reality outside the locally Minkowsky space-time structure. You may even posit aspects of reality which violate the rules of logic. But no such hidden variables or causes can be confirmed by the methods of scientific inquiry used in physics.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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