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Thread: Strong Opinions on Time Travel

  1. #1 Strong Opinions on Time Travel 
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    Wrote an article a while back on Time Travel. Not certain on some aspects of the essay itself. Please tell me your thoughts on the matter.

    http://scienceray.com/physics/time-t...l-assumptions/


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    Forum Bachelors Degree Waveman28's Avatar
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    Your article was well written, but it does contain many flaws and inaccuracies.

    1. "Thanks to the breakthrough of Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity, we have a better means to understand time."

    Albert Einstein was not the founder of relativity and certainly did not make any breakthroughs in this area. He used the ideas and equations of Henri Poincare, Hendrik Lorentz and Woldemar Voight to form "his" special theory of relativity.

    2. "What is time?"

    Time does not have any true existence. Events do not require time to happen. Time arises when something happens, which is how we compare the duration of events to other events.

    3. Time does not "flow". Time travel is impossible.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Senior Booms's Avatar
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    nice essay

    it's nice to put a name to some of my thoughts, the Granular theory you mentioned is what I originally thought of time as
    I'm much too literal in my thinking though, I always define time as atomic decay, because at it's base, that's what it is. no matter what happens, atoms always decay, all time is is our way of measuring the decay

    I always liked Doctor Who's explaination of time all wibbly wobbly curley wurly and nothing is definite and anything can be changed




    P.S I'd just ignore waveman if I were you, he/she seems to live in an alternate reality none of us know about so nothing they say makes much sense (although I would like to know his evidence for 2 and 3)
    It's not how many questions you ask, but the answers you get - Booms

    This is the Acadamy of Science! we don't need to 'prove' anything!
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  5. #4  
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    I like how the article looks into a variety of possibilities, rather than just settling on one.


    My take on the assassination prevention problem is that your thoughts and memories are quantum mechanical in nature. Trying to use those memories as a means to prevent an assassination would be like trying to send a single photon through a double slit apparatus, and expecting it to land somewhere where it would cancel itself on the other side. Similarly, your memories can't cancel themselves, nor contribute to their own cancellation in any way whatsoever. Most likely, if you attempted it, or even thought seriously about attempting it, you'd get a very strong feeling that it's a bad idea, or experience a sudden brain freeze, and forget what you were doing for a moment (or both). It's just your brain's way of refusing to break the laws of nature for you.

    If time travel is ever invented, I bet some people will go totally insane trying to overcome this limitation and their loved ones will watch as their mind continually deteriorates further and further with each attempt. It's just so infuriating to think that maybe "free will" isn't absolute, and your mind really is just a bunch of photons bouncing around in there.
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    Thanks for the responses, guys. I agree with Booms and kojax. Not entirely certain about a mental warning towards time travel but there disproving it, so what the hell. But nice additions. Except for waveman.
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    Forum Bachelors Degree Waveman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxstant
    Thanks for the responses, guys. I agree with Booms and kojax. Not entirely certain about a mental warning towards time travel but there disproving it, so what the hell. But nice additions. Except for waveman.
    Look, i'm not trying to be nasty or anything, I am just being realistic. Your making the mistake of listening to the things you want to hear, rather than the things you need to hear. Here are the facts: time has never been proved to exist and logic indicates it never will be because of all the paradoxes and flaws that come with it. "Time" is just a measurement, a way of comparing the duration of 2 or more events and is purely relative and arbitrary. It is just a concept.
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  8. #7  
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    Time traveling? Even possibility of something muuuch simpler - sending information back in time would turn our world upside down ... and if is possible, it should be doable with our current technology...
    http://groups.google.com/group/sci.p...a0e13619778c45
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waveman28
    Your article was well written, but it does contain many flaws and inaccuracies.

    1. "Thanks to the breakthrough of Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity, we have a better means to understand time."

    Albert Einstein was not the founder of relativity and certainly did not make any breakthroughs in this area. He used the ideas and equations of Henri Poincare, Hendrik Lorentz and Woldemar Voight to form "his" special theory of relativity.

    2. "What is time?"

    Time does not have any true existence. Events do not require time to happen. Time arises when something happens, which is how we compare the duration of events to other events.

    3. Time does not "flow". Time travel is impossible.
    Your post was well written, but it does contain many flaws and inaccuracies.

    1. Noxstant does not claim Einstein founded relativity. He makes the valid point that Einstein's theory of relativity offered an alternative view of time.

    2. Length does not have any true existence. Objects do not require length to exist. Length arises when objects appear, which is how we compare the sizes of objects to other objects.

    Yeah. Right.

    3. Time travel is considered to be wholly consistent with our current understanding of the physical world.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booms


    I always liked Doctor Who's explaination of time all wibbly wobbly curley wurly and nothing is definite and anything can be changed.
    Wonderful technical description of time!
    "The question the drives me hazy, am I, or all the others crazy".
    Did you compose this witty, meaningful remark yourself?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxstant
    Thanks for the responses, guys. I agree with Booms and kojax. Not entirely certain about a mental warning towards time travel but there disproving it, so what the hell. But nice additions. Except for waveman.
    My theory on mental warnings is that, quite possibly, much of our world's history has been created by time travelers from the future, .... perhaps very indirectly. So, sometimes when you feel really really bad about a course of action you're contemplating, for no apparent reason, ... it might be because that action would prevent the time machine from being invented, or otherwise alter the course of the future in a substantial enough way to impact those past events.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Ph.D. Leszek Luchowski's Avatar
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    Anybody who believes in time travel see me at my home last Saturday night.

    If you do, I'll give you the adress next Wednesday.
    Leszek. Pronounced [LEH-sheck]. The wondering Slav.
    History teaches us that we don't learn from history.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Masters Degree Golkarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leszek Luchowski
    Anybody who believes in time travel see me at my home last Saturday night.

    If you do, I'll give you the adress next Wednesday.
    Anybody who believes in the possibility of flying to Mars, go to Mars. (Sorry if I took a joke to seriously).

    There are better reasons to disbelieve in time travel, such as the grandmother paradox. But there are some ways around it, one is that time travel might be possible but you would just be creating the present as you already know it, like in the first terminator. Another that you could change the past, but that would shift you into an alternative universe. And last you could think of a second dimension of time, where in the past you existed and the future you don't, because you killed your grandmother, but only after time has passed in the second dimension of time.
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  14. #13  
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    Time is defined by motion, Noxstant. Waveman is right. No motion means no time. You can't see time flowing, there's no evidence that we "move through time". None whatsoever. We move through space, we can see that, there is evidence for it. But when we measure the time it takes, we use a clock. Now think about a clock. Whether it's a mechanical clock or a light clock, it's clocking up motion. Stop the clock and you stop motion, not time. A year is derived from the motion of the earth round the sun, a day is derived from the motion of the earth round its axis. A second is derived from the motion of microwave light in an atomic clock. It always comes back to motion. Stop all motion in the universe, and there's no time any more. It's just a measure of motion, and you can't travel through a measure of motion. That's why time travel is science fiction. Sorry.
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    Forum Ph.D. Heinsbergrelatz's Avatar
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    "time travel may be possible, but it is not practical."

    Stephen Hawking
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farsight
    Time is defined by motion, Noxstant. Waveman is right. No motion means no time. You can't see time flowing, there's no evidence that we "move through time". None whatsoever. We move through space, we can see that, there is evidence for it. But when we measure the time it takes, we use a clock. Now think about a clock. Whether it's a mechanical clock or a light clock, it's clocking up motion. Stop the clock and you stop motion, not time. A year is derived from the motion of the earth round the sun, a day is derived from the motion of the earth round its axis. A second is derived from the motion of microwave light in an atomic clock. It always comes back to motion. Stop all motion in the universe, and there's no time any more. It's just a measure of motion, and you can't travel through a measure of motion. That's why time travel is science fiction. Sorry.
    True, but motion is defined just as much by distance as it is by time. You could equally argue that distance doesn't exist, isn't a thing, and therefore cannot be traversed backwards. Even in the case of a clock, the hands are moving over a distance, or the electrons are.

    The trick to understanding time is to think of events instead of objects. Every event has a time and place. Most objects are also events, if you think about it, because they won't always be what they are. The computer in front of you wasn't always a computer, and someday it will probably be recycled and made into something else. It's state of being a computer is an event. It's an event occurring over a specific range of time just as much as it is an object occupying a specific area of space.
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