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Thread: is info energy and therefore its conservation is granted?

  1. #1 is info energy and therefore its conservation is granted? 
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    id like to hear your opinions


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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    I'll be delighted to provide them if you restate the question in clearer terms. I'm going to take a few wild assed guesses to figure out what you intended.

    Was this what you meant?

    "Is information a form of energy. If so would it be subject to the Law of Conservation of Energy?"

    If that is what you meant may I ask why you did not say it?

    Now my 'opinions':
    Information is not a form of energy.
    Information is not conserved.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I'll be delighted to provide them if you restate the question in clearer terms. I'm going to take a few wild assed guesses to figure out what you intended.

    Was this what you meant?

    "Is information a form of energy. If so would it be subject to the Law of Conservation of Energy?"

    If that is what you meant may I ask why you did not say it?

    Now my 'opinions':
    Information is not a form of energy.
    Information is not conserved.
    This discussion is not going anywhere unless a clear definition of "information" is offered by the OP.

    There are some arguments being made by legitimate physicists based on a notion of "conservation of energy", but even there the definition of "information" seems more than a bit hazy.

    As an example one might read Leonard Susskind's book The Black Hole War, but keep in mind that it seems to not make a very clear distinction between conjecture and fact, and uses the term "information" loosely and without clear definition.
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  5. #4  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    There are some arguments being made by legitimate physicists based on a notion of "conservation of energy", but even there the definition of "information" seems more than a bit hazy.
    I have been peripherally aware of such notions and you have confirmed my superficial judgement that the concepts have not been well developed.

    There really hasn't been any excuse for being vague about what information is since Claude Shannon did his work.
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  6. #5  
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    It is possible to define information AS A PHYSICAL QUANTITY. This is elaborated in the paper "Gravitation and electromagnetism - Introduction to the theory of informatons" published on www.wbabin.net/astro/acke2.pdf

    The author introduces and defines the quantity "information" to explain - in a simple way - the phenomena and the laws of the gravitational and the electromagnetic interactions.

    Though, in this context information is not energy, it obeys a law of conservation.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Senior Booms's Avatar
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    I have no idea what you mean OP but I'm going out on a limb here and saying

    NO


    because I know the square root of 16 is 4 doesn't mean I have more energy than someone who doesn't

    unless you are refering to a different form of information I don't understand how you even came to this conclusion



    information can be converted to signals that use energy to transmit, that's how the internet works, information is nothing though
    It's not how many questions you ask, but the answers you get - Booms

    This is the Acadamy of Science! we don't need to 'prove' anything!
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  8. #7  
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    My Opinions on Information:
    1. Information is order
    2. Information tells us who made it and how it came to be.
    3. Information is related more to entropy than to energy per se.
    4. Information can be created (unlike energy) but it cannot be destroyed.[/list][/list]
    Beyond Equations,

    Pritish
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    There are some arguments being made by legitimate physicists based on a notion of "conservation of energy", but even there the definition of "information" seems more than a bit hazy.
    I have been peripherally aware of such notions and you have confirmed my superficial judgement that the concepts have not been well developed.

    There really hasn't been any excuse for being vague about what information is since Claude Shannon did his work.
    Shannon's definition works pretty well for a communication channel.

    The physicists seem to be trying to roughly apply it to information transfer to and from a black hole, but the application there is not so clear. It seems to be somewhow related to whether some operators are unitary, but again the connection between that and entropy is rather muddy to me.
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