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Thread: The Laws of Physics

  1. #1 The Laws of Physics 
    Forum Masters Degree Golkarian's Avatar
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    Do you think that one day it will be possible to change the laws of physics? Possibly creating universes within our own where it might be possible to say, travel past the speed of light (maybe by changing the speed of light to a higher value in the other universe)?


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    It seems to be theoretically possible to create new universes, but they would be outside our own universe, and in a universe with different physical constants, we wouldn't be able to exist. (The structure of our atoms depends on those constants.)


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  4. #3 Re: The Laws of Physics 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golkarian
    Do you think that one day it will be possible to change the laws of physics? Possibly creating universes within our own where it might be possible to say, travel past the speed of light (maybe by changing the speed of light to a higher value in the other universe)?
    In a way, we have been making our own universes for more than 10 years - computer games. In a computer game or computer simulation, we can pretty much make that program behave however we want, we can literally change everything. The only real possible way for us to make our own universe is by making a real time virtual reality program that humans can enter, basically like off the matrix. That moment will truly change our lives forever, and will without doubt be the biggest revolution ever.
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  5. #4 Re: The Laws of Physics 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golkarian
    Do you think that one day it will be possible to change the laws of physics? Possibly creating universes within our own where it might be possible to say, travel past the speed of light (maybe by changing the speed of light to a higher value in the other universe)?
    I doubt it.
    I don't believe there is such thing as other Universes, since by definition the Universe is everything that exists.
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  6. #5  
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    No, not possible. The Universe is a closed system. Anything we do is within that system is part of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    It seems to be theoretically possible to create new universes, but they would be outside our own universe, and in a universe with different physical constants, we wouldn't be able to exist. (The structure of our atoms depends on those constants.)
    Unless we transformed ourselves into another form, transported ourselves through the alternative universe, then transformed back as we passed back into our universe. But this probably ony proves I'm insane.

    Alot of people are tripping up over definitions ("by definition the Universe is everything that exists"). I mean by universe an area contained within our universe that has different physical constants. Can anyone suggest a better name?
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  8. #7  
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    Can anyone suggest a better name?
    Microcosm.
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    Personally, I like universe and multiverse, rather than say microcosm and universe, but that's just me.
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    Fantasy land.
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  11. #10  
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    I am a firm believer that the universe cannot be changed, and that if God exists, he just has better science than we do.

    That said, I wouldn't rule out that the laws of physics may change by location within the universe.
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    If we observe something that violates the laws of physics, as we know them, then there are two possibilities. Either a miracle has occurred, or our knowledge of physics is incomplete.

    Lots of people believe, or have believed in miracles, but many things previously viewed as miraculous have been successfully explained by science. This leads us to expect that things can always be explained, ultimately, without resort to a miracle. If it cannot, then we are really outside the realm of science.

    The idea that we could change the laws of physics? I don't even know what that means.

    If the laws of physics change in an unpredictable way, we are pretty much stuck. We can't do science.
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  13. #12  
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    Harold:

    Well stated.
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    On the other hand, the laws of physics are a human invention.
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    It is a purely philosophical discussion, but I don't see a reason why the laws of physics couldn't change, or be different in other universes.

    Just for clarity:
    by laws of physics I mean the way stuff behaves, not the mathematical models we invented to describe them
    by our universe I mean the totality of the space-time continuum in which we exist. Other universes are separate space-time continua, but might be connected to ours, and might have the same of different laws of physics.

    I think it's quite likely for other universes to exist. We know it happened once, why wouldn't it happen an infinite number of times? I doubt we're connected in any way to those universes, except perhaps at the Big Bang, but that isn't exactly the easiest point of our universe to get at.
    I don't really see why it would be impossible to create some kind of universe, initiating its big bang somehow, but that wouldn't necessarily allow us to enter it, because we would need at least a line-connection with it.

    About our possible survival in such a universe: our bodies would probably not survive, or at least cease to function properly, if even the smallest change in the fundamental constants, but the information contained in our brains could. I think any universe can contain information.
    Contrary to most science fiction, I don't think there is a reason why the time lines between different universes would have any relation to each other.


    On a different note: our universe might be a probability distribution of quantum states, in which case "our" universe is the state(s) our "consciousness" is aware of. It's imaginable to call other states "parallel universes", but wouldn't be able to interact with them, because we don't exist in most of them.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    If we observe something that violates the laws of physics, as we know them, then there are two possibilities. Either a miracle has occurred, or our knowledge of physics is incomplete.

    Lots of people believe, or have believed in miracles, but many things previously viewed as miraculous have been successfully explained by science. This leads us to expect that things can always be explained, ultimately, without resort to a miracle. If it cannot, then we are really outside the realm of science.

    The idea that we could change the laws of physics? I don't even know what that means.

    If the laws of physics change in an unpredictable way, we are pretty much stuck. We can't do science.
    To respond to your ideas on miracles, I would just like to say that I am suggesting that the laws of physics are incomplete (I am not talking about miracles) and that we may be able to change current laws in terms of laws that seem less arbitrary (based on logical ideas or probability).

    Just to be clear I am personally more concerned with changing physical constants (like the speed of light) rather than laws (like conservation of relativistic energy). Also I don't think it would be unpredictable, I think since, for most physical contants, physicists don't know why they are that value (I may be wrong), by understanding the cause-effect relation between first priciples and physical constants we may be able to manipulate the contants, but in a predictable manner. Even though we may not know what the cause is, it does not mean it creates unpredictable results.

    It seems to me that for some things there is a specific reason they are the way they are. But if there is no reason, and constants are arbitrary, then we should be able to change them.
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  17. #16  
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    Even if we could, I doubt we'd want to change physical constants. There are only five fundamental constants (IIRC) that everything else can be derived from, and the derived constants are too interconnected for things to be changed without everything falling apart. (For example, the structure of atoms depends on all the constants.)

    Of course, don't take my word for any of this. I'm not too sure of it myself.
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    By creating new materials ,that are new physics(chemical) materials that nature
    cannot handle they selves already .
    Creating the pollution ,a new physics must to be created for these materials .
    Where its for pollution humans are doomed .

    A waste of resources are for these products everywhere ,the party play system
    universe for economy .
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  19. #18  
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    As long as the laws of physics that we predict are correct, I do not think that we can change it. However, I strongly believe that we can certainly manipulate it. If it is a cosmic law, we certainly cannnot change it but we can find ways to go around it using other cosmic laws. For instance, the discovery of the Photoelectric Effect led to many scientfic advancements. We did not change the effect but we found ways to manipulate and use it.
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  20. #19  
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    I like Waveman28's response the best: the video games. Interesting spin on the topic.

    I don't really have an opinion on this but I was wondering if this would make people think.

    To manipulate the constants or laws, would we not have to use them in the process (as this universe is the only one available to us) and by this fact making it impossible to change them?

    Just a thought.

    - TR
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