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Thread: Gravity at the quantum level

  1. #1 Gravity at the quantum level 
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    Is it possible that at the sub-atomic level space/time is so restricted that it cannot deform and gravity, therefore, does not exist at this level?


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  3. #2  
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    Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubly-special_relativity. I don't think there are any solid theories (or any experiments) there, but it's an idea.


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    Many thanks for the tip. I was ignorant of de Sitter space. I only thought that at around the Plank length, amidst the quantum foam that space may display, a space/time curvature would be unlikely. Now I am not so sure. Many thanks again.
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    at what point does the effect of gravity take hold. how big must a solid be?is there an amount of mass that when an object reaches it can be affected by gravity
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  6. #5  
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    Even massless light is affected by gravity.
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  7. #6 gravity at the atomic level 
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    At the sub-atomic level gravity is the strong-force.

    See there are two forces/ fields in the atomic-system.

    [1] is the weak force/ Electromagnetic fields.

    [2] is the strong force/ gravitational fields.

    Broth fields of force are at opposite ends of the electromagnetic
    Spectrum / energy levels.

    [1a] the weak force becomes the Electromagnetic fields are
    brought about at very low levels of energy, all mass become
    magnetic at extremely low temperatures.

    [2A] the strong force becomes the gravitational fields at the high
    levels of the energy area/ in the plasma state.

    G-man
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    Where do you get this information? My understanding was there are two forces: gravity and electroweak (magnetism, electricity, weak and strong).
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  9. #8 At the sub-atomic level gravity is the strong-force 
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    Hi MagiMaster;

    Well I got it over the last 35 years studying the nuclear and other fields of science.

    And yes we use to see it as four forces in the atomic system,

    [1] the strong force

    [2] the weak force

    [3] the electro-magnetic force

    [4] and some where there was the gravitational force

    Then Steven showed us that the weak force became the electro-magnetic force when it was force to polarize and propagate out of the atomic system. All mass / or element become magnetic at very low energy levels, usually well below -200° K

    The key is to understand that it is the electrons that spin out a loping string of flux that becomes polarize and propagate out, that becomes the magnetic fields.

    The key is to understand that it is the proton in the nuclei that spin out a loping string of flux that becomes polarize and propagate out, that becomes the graviataional fields. This can only happen at high energy levels such as in the plasma state of the mass.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    Where do you get this information? My understanding was there are two forces: gravity and electroweak (magnetism, electricity, weak and strong).
    No there are three separate "forces", and in some cases people think of it as four.

    Gravity -- space-time curvature per general relativity

    electroweak -- often split into electromagnetic and weak, electroweak quantum field theory

    strong -- the force that holds quarks together. , quantum chromodynamics
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  11. #10  
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    Ah ok. I was under the impression that the strong force had been unified with the electroweak force.
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  12. #11  
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    isn't the strong force the only one that actually intensifies with an increase in distance, but only functions on the extreme small scale, serving to hold together nuclei of atoms?
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
    -Plato

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  13. #12 Re: Gravity at the quantum level 
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    Quote Originally Posted by TALLTELLER
    Is it possible that at the sub-atomic level space/time is so restricted that it cannot deform and gravity, therefore, does not exist at this level?
    Isn't that vaguely paradoxical? something that exists being so small it actually doesn't exist?


    But in truth I don't think so (but hey what do I know.. I'm only 17) as far as I know everything that exists (excluding exceptions like tachyons or higgs boson stuff?) produces and is affected by gravity
    E=mc Means that energy is directly related to mass and I think means if you pump enough energy into a single point you can create mass, Because mass and energy (photons for example) are affected and produce gravity and because mass more so, it seems logical to me that gravity originates in energy so anything that exists is affected by gravity since existance requires energy



    P.S http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubly-special_relativity Doubly Special relativity made me laugh, I thought "what next, extra super special relativity?" imagine my suprise when the first line is "Doubly-special relativity (DSR)— also called deformed special relativity or, by some, extra-special relativity "
    seriously what the hell? have scientists lost all imagination? Supermassive Black Holes, Double and Extra-Special realitivity and naming stuff with numbers and codes what happened to calling things names like Ares and Venus and the SUN! (god forbid we should have discovered the sun nowadays it would be called Mega Big Burny Yellow Ball, or 3G-6C)
    It's not how many questions you ask, but the answers you get - Booms

    This is the Acadamy of Science! we don't need to 'prove' anything!
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  14. #13 Strong force 
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    That the strong force increases with distance at the quantum level perhaps again demonstrates that a certain volume of space is required before it easily deforms? Below that volume it becomes increasingly resistant to curvature or any other form of manipulation.
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  15. #14  
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    As far as silly names go, I always liked WIMPs (weakly interacting massive particles) and MACHOs (massive astrophysical compact halo objects). There seems to be a modern tradition of silly names in science. Besides, all the names like Venus and Mars are just the names of old Greek and Roman deities, and we're running out of them.
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  16. #15 Re: Gravity at the quantum level 
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    Quote Originally Posted by TALLTELLER
    Is it possible that at the sub-atomic level space/time is so restricted that it cannot deform and gravity, therefore, does not exist at this level?

    If gravity did not exist at all levels, black holes would not exist.
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  17. #16  
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    That may or may not be true. We don't know yet. Should it prove to be true that space has a fixed minimum length, we'll need new laws of physics which can then be used to predict whether black holes exist or if those things out there just look enough like black holes that we can't tell the difference from here.
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  18. #17  
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    As of right now, there are no good answers to your question because physicists are still struggling to answer that very question themselves. When speaking about the quantum scale, gravity seems to be neglected because it is so feeble compared to the other forces such as Electromagnetism and Weak and Strong Nuclear Forces. Scientists are working effortlessly trying to figure out where gravity stands on the Quantum scale. When this theory is proposed, physicists believe that the understanding of physics will be mostly completed. They will call this Quantum Gravity or The Theory of Everything. There are several theories proposed about this topic but they contain mathematical anomalies and lack of experimental support. An example is String Theory. Therefore, physicists are still nowhere near this destination yet.
    Phong Vo

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    You may have graduated but I have many degrees.
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