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Thread: Information as a fundamental part of the universe?

  1. #1 Information as a fundamental part of the universe? 
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    I was watching Nova and some scientists were talking about how atoms store information. I also read an article in Discover a few years ago about how information is never really lost, like when a person dies or when a black hole absorbs a planet. It is just transferred. Anyways, does anyone know anything about these sorts of ideas?


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  3. #2 Re: Information as a fundamental part of the universe? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufcarazy
    I was watching Nova and some scientists were talking about how atoms store information.

    see what a 'quantum jump' is

    what is causing the "jumpin" and why?

    I also read an article in Discover a few years ago about how information is never really lost, like when a person dies or when a black hole absorbs a planet. It is just transferred. Anyways, does anyone know anything about these sorts of ideas?
    the first law of thermodnamics shares a balance, energy in, energy out (conserved)

    but, WORDS themselves are 'creations' within existence. meaning they did not exist before mankind 'created' them

    and yet, they evolve. (i call words 'fractals' within existence; newly created by combining "information")



    that "life and death" item, is not so clear within todays understanding because the 'life' of mass is not well understood within the sciences themselves.

    BUT, you can understand it quite simply; what is 'jumpin' between mass (to make the electrons do anything?)

    or to ground the reality into simple terms;

    if you tap surface of the ocean today, that wave is still moving, even when you turn your head and walk away. (you caused it and that energy is still going)

    "Existence" (all the universe, including time) NEVER forgets, as what you did yesterday still continues today.



    black holes and that ideology is not fundamental of the universe

    so i will leave that to the psuedo gang!


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  4. #3 Re: Information as a fundamental part of the universe? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufcarazy
    I was watching Nova and some scientists were talking about how atoms store information. I also read an article in Discover a few years ago about how information is never really lost, like when a person dies or when a black hole absorbs a planet. It is just transferred. Anyways, does anyone know anything about these sorts of ideas?
    There are always observable effects.

    eg.

    The ripples in a pool, convey critical information about activity which occurred; similarly, those same ripples can lead to an effect which can later be attributed to the ripples, that were ultimately caused by the initial event.

    Of course, our capacity to procure this critical information may not always be existent, but this doesn't challenge the actual existence of this information.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope MagiMaster's Avatar
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    Be very careful to understand that the word information here does not mean what most people think of when they think of information.
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    Forum Bachelors Degree Apopohis Reject's Avatar
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    Concerning the 'ripples in a pool' observation, in relation to the similar effect in the sea, and (more to the point) in relation to the apparent dual nature of light.

    As I understand it, when we see the ripple in the water, our observation is primarily according the energy, which is fundamentally 'invisible' - as it radiates. The water itself is not really a part of our observation, even though it is the movement of this physical thing that our eyes 'recognise'.

    Now, it would occur to me that when we observe this phenomenon in the sea, the water is likewise not a part of the wave as it radiates - until such time the wave nears land and subsequently 'breaks'. From this point onwards, the observation has become one of a dual entity nature - now both wave and physical (particle) - towards it's completion.

    So I am wondering if it is at all possible - in a similar manner; when 'light' departs the sun, if it is merely 'wave', yet as it 'breaks' through the earth's atmosphere, then becomes the dual part entity of our understanding?

    Just thought a Reject might ask - not an attempt to annoy anyone.

    BTW; this post is (by my reasoning) certainly NOT so off the OP of this topic as it might at first appear.
    sunshinewarrior: If two people are using the same word, but applying different meanings to it, then they're not communicating.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apopohis Reject
    Concerning the 'ripples in a pool' observation, in relation to the similar effect in the sea, and (more to the point) in relation to the apparent dual nature of light.
    there is no 'dual nature' other than its fields. (electric/magnetic; right hand rule)

    that 'particle' idea is funny as the double slit DOES not take the material being imposed too, into consideration (as relevant).

    ie..... the emitter, thru the double slit, then the impact point (the medium)..... that medium is not observed as aborbing the energy. That is why with 1 photon at a time or the whole barrage at the same time the pattern stays the same. The mass is absorbing the exchange and we 'see' the refracted portions. (think of how color works)

    the DS experiment is another one (experiment) that will be affected by observing the full set of properties! (to understand this, check into the BIG E's photo-electric effect; the mass is extremely relevant)

    or better still, do the experiment yourselves; put up a black screened background; change the colors, shoot one (per se) photon at a time. (point being, to any student/scientist there is lots of room to get your name in the paper)

    As I understand it, when we see the ripple in the water, our observation is primarily according the energy, which is fundamentally 'invisible' - as it radiates. The water itself is not really a part of our observation, even though it is the movement of this physical thing that our eyes 'recognise'.
    in all cases; no energy is observable without mass (postulate)

    but note when that wave is mving thru the pond, notice the wave may seem to be getting smaller but also notice it is entangling more mass proportionally. SO what we see may be smaller, but in reality far more mass is affected over time.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope MagiMaster's Avatar
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    The dual-slit experiment demonstrates the wave-like nature of light, not the particle-like nature. The particle like nature comes from the photoelectric effect, as well as the fact that it's possible to isolate a single photon.

    I'll leave it up to someone who knows more about the details than I do, but it can be shown that photons are in fact massless while still possessing energy.
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  9. #8  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    I'll leave it up to someone who knows more about the details than I do, but it can be shown that photons are in fact massless while still possessing energy.
    Which is the exact opposite of me. :wink:
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