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Thread: Is spinon a confined neutrino?

  1. #1 Is spinon a confined neutrino? 
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    Recent experiments
    http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/.../nphys316.html
    confirmed theoretical results that electrons are not undividable as it was believed -for some conditions it's more energetically preferable for them to separate their charge part (called holon or chargon) and its spin part (spinon).
    I think it's a good time to discuss about these results and their consequences.

    Thinking about 'pure spin' (spinon) made me associate it with low energy electron neutrino, especially that I imagine particle's properties which can only occur in some integer multiplicities like charge or spin as topological singularities - such separation greatly connects the whole picture.
    Another argument is for example muon(tau) decay - it looks that e.g. there has been spontaneously created neutrino-antineutrino pair (electron) and the spin part of the muon(tau) was exchanged with the one with smaller energy and so more stable.

    The other question is about statistics of these (quasi?)particles.
    For me statistics is the result of spin - so spinons should be clearly fermions ... (anti)holons repels or annihilates - I don't see a point to make them fit into one of these categories (as bosons) ...

    What do you think about it?


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  3. #2 Re: Is spinon a confined neutrino? 
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    [quote="Jarek Duda"]Recent experiments
    http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/.../nphys316.html
    confirmed theoretical results that electrons are not undividable as it was believed -for some conditions it's more energetically preferable for them to separate their charge part (called holon or chargon) and its spin part (spinon).
    I think it's a good time to discuss about these results and their consequences.

    quote]

    You have misinterpreted the spinon and holon. They are not constituents of the electron. See more discussion in this thread.

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...ighlight=holon

    This probably ought to be discussed in that thread rather than starting a new oone.


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  4. #3  
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    From the site You've referred
    http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/...ns-holons.html
    In this technique, x-rays are flashed on a sample causing electrons to be emitted through the photoelectric effect. Measuring the kinetic energy of emitted electrons and the angles at which they are ejected identifies their velocity and scattering rates. This in turn yields a detailed picture of the electron energy spectrum. Ordinarily, the removal of an electron from a crystal creates a hole, a vacant positively-charged energy space. This hole carries information on both the spin and the charge, as observed in a single peak of an ARPES spectrum. If spin-charge separation occurs, the hole decays into a spinon and a holon and two peaks in the ARPES spectrum are observed.
    and there is a nice graph with two distinct peaks ...
    From the abstract of the paper: "The spinon and holon branches are found to have energy scales of approx 0.43 and 1.3 eV".

    Even if they only undergo "separation into collective modes" ... to behave in separate modes, doesn't they have to separate themselves?
    Imagine a string in a harmonic mode ... now it separates into two modes/strings ... doesn't it mean that that it's atoms also separates?
    Ok - these amplitudes can be extremely small so they stay 'in one particle' ... but behave separately.

    Neutrino is 'a pure (electron) spin' ... and so is the spinal part of electron ...
    Spinon and holon energetically prefer to stay together (modifying their structure a bit), but 'pure spin' has unchangeable quantum number (spin) and has extremely small energy - doesn't have what to decay - should be stable (neutrino).
    'Pure charge' (holon) interacts much stronger, have larger energy - should quickly 'catch' neutrino (spontaneously created in pair) - should have very small half life time.
    And we have Majorana hypothesis - there are only two types of electron neutrinos ... adding the charge we have four possibilities as in Dirac's equations ...
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarek Duda
    From the site You've referred
    http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/...ns-holons.html
    In this technique, x-rays are flashed on a sample causing electrons to be emitted through the photoelectric effect. Measuring the kinetic energy of emitted electrons and the angles at which they are ejected identifies their velocity and scattering rates. This in turn yields a detailed picture of the electron energy spectrum. Ordinarily, the removal of an electron from a crystal creates a hole, a vacant positively-charged energy space. This hole carries information on both the spin and the charge, as observed in a single peak of an ARPES spectrum. If spin-charge separation occurs, the hole decays into a spinon and a holon and two peaks in the ARPES spectrum are observed.
    and there is a nice graph with two distinct peaks ...
    From the abstract of the paper: "The spinon and holon branches are found to have energy scales of approx 0.43 and 1.3 eV".

    Even if they only undergo "separation into collective modes" ... to behave in separate modes, doesn't they have to separate themselves?
    Imagine a string in a harmonic mode ... now it separates into two modes/strings ... doesn't it mean that that it's atoms also separates?
    Ok - these amplitudes can be extremely small so they stay 'in one particle' ... but behave separately.

    Neutrino is 'a pure (electron) spin' ... and so is the spinal part of electron ...
    Spinon and holon energetically prefer to stay together (modifying their structure a bit), but 'pure spin' has unchangeable quantum number (spin) and has extremely small energy - doesn't have what to decay - should be stable (neutrino).
    'Pure charge' (holon) interacts much stronger, have larger energy - should quickly 'catch' neutrino (spontaneously created in pair) - should have very small half life time.
    And we have Majorana hypothesis - there are only two types of electron neutrinos ... adding the charge we have four possibilities as in Dirac's equations ...

    What in the world are you talking about?

    Spinons and holons are not manifestations of the electron itself or of an atom, but rather of a very special arrangement of a lot of electrons -- confined to move along a single dimension.
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  6. #5  
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    The important is that their spin and charge parts are connected, but can behave separately - it strongly suggests that the fundamental blocks building our physics are the carriers of indivisible properties like charge or spin.
    Sometimes they create pairs to reduce energy and finally particles are stable when they are in the state of the lowest possible energy, like neutrino or electron.
    And strong argument that this spin part is just a neutrino is muon decay
    muon -> electron + electron antineutrino + muon neutrino
    isn't that just exchange of the spin part to get the lowest energy and so the stable state?
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