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  1. #1 white holes? 
    Forum Freshman ASTROPHYSICIST137's Avatar
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    Could the black holes at the centre of our galaxy being white holes?
    But in theory a white hole puts out matter right, so did the matter start to cause a gravitational field and change the white hole into a black hole?

    thanks. :-D


    K.T.B
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  3. #2  
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    how would you get a "white hole"? where would the matter come from?


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    It has been theorised that black holes are connected through wormholes to white holes: one sucking in matter, the other expelling it.

    There is no indication at all that such a thing really exists, and it is considered quite unlikely. More of a sf-idea really.
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  5. #4 Re: white holes? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASTROPHYSICIST137
    Could the black holes at the centre of our galaxy being white holes?
    But in theory a white hole puts out matter right, so did the matter start to cause a gravitational field and change the white hole into a black hole?

    thanks. :-D
    In my theory, a white hole is on the other side of the black hole which links to the anti-universe (or this universe's anti universe). Our matter is compressed into it say from if I go into a black hole my particles are compacted merley to nothing 0 dimensionional in the singularirty. However, the white hole then spews it out and reforms me in the anti-universe because the laws of entropy and time are reversed, thus enabling me to interact in a order --> chaos way in that universe as opposed to interacting any more in our (pro) universe chaos --> order.

    That also means that even in a black hole, energy is conserved between the pro and anti universe...

    Hope that made any sense to you...
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    that makes sense, but the matter/energy conservation could be upheld better if there were an equal number of black holes in this universe, as in the anti universe both universes have both black and white holes, in equal quantities. And, basically, you are seeing this system as a "worm hole" type of thing as opposed to the point of infinite gravity that simply compresses you to a point, otherwise the gravity of a black hole/white hole system would constantly decrease as matter goes from one universe to the other.
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  7. #6 hi 
    Forum Freshman ASTROPHYSICIST137's Avatar
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    im not sure about a black hole that is linked to a white hole because a white hole pushes matter out and i mean, the black hole just gets bigger so dont that mean that the mass is staying in the black hole?
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    that's what I would think. so, now comes the question, how do you get a white hole?
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    the same way you make negative gravity, duh
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  10. #9 hi 
    Forum Freshman ASTROPHYSICIST137's Avatar
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    Well I was thinking like a wormhole near like a sun or a large mass of some sort, maybe a singularity (like a mini big bang from when the universe started? If anyone has any theory’s please share!
    Thanks.
    8)
    K.T.B
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    A white hole exists in the anti universe so as matter comes into its singularity from our own singularity then because the anti universe's time and entropy is opposite and reverse (they are going from the big crunch to the big bang) then the white holes push out as much as our black holes do...

    You see, even gravity that we know can be called anti gravity if we reverse time? So you see how gravity works here? It is a time concept, but there is something bigger influencing it.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  12. #11 emmm.................... 
    Forum Freshman ASTROPHYSICIST137's Avatar
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    Not bad but I don’t get u…
    Arcane Mathamatition can u help on this plz?
    K.T.B
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    Imagine in a universe where time goes forwards.

    From the orbit of Earth I fall straight down. Why? Gravity.

    In a universe where time goes backwards from the Earth I go straight up to the moon.

    Which one of these would you dub 'gravity' and 'anti gravity'? None, because its the same force, time and other dimensions just gives perception of that force behaving in a different way, which is why I believe that all 'forces' behave because of this.
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    right ok then thanks
    K.T.B
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    anyone else have any theory's on white holes?
    K.T.B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf
    Imagine in a universe where time goes forwards.

    From the orbit of Earth I fall straight down. Why? Gravity.

    In a universe where time goes backwards from the Earth I go straight up to the moon.

    Which one of these would you dub 'gravity' and 'anti gravity'? None, because its the same force, time and other dimensions just gives perception of that force behaving in a different way, which is why I believe that all 'forces' behave because of this.
    Doesn't this mean that in your anti-universe, all matter repels each other? Space would be very sparsely populated with chunks of material that sticks together for some other reason, no stars, no planets, no nothing.

    Except of course electromagnetic forces are also reversed, in which case you'd have one large ball of protons on one side of the universe, and one giant ball of electrons on the other side, speeding away from each other.
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    that is very true!!!!
    we have matter of such and they have anti-matter, anti-matter is like nothing,
    so the other universe would not exist at all?????
    K.T.B
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

    It is theorized that when a black hole forms it creates a big bang at it's core, the result of which is a universe not a part of this universe. In that other universe, for an instant there is a white hole and then it is gone.

    The nature of a white hole means that it could only exist for an instant since it would by it's very definition push itself away until nothing remained but flying matter and energy.

    It is probably pure energy. A black hole is pure matter, a white hole would be pure energy, just like the big bang, too hot to form matter, defying the laws of gravity. To contrast a black hole which is the epitome of the laws of gravity.
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    wow dude thanks i new ideas now. lol
    any other ideas?
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  20. #19  
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    TO respond to bad wolfs creative ideas

    turning time backwards doesn't make gravity into anti-gravity. Anti-gravity is when you make the force of gravity not have any effect. Turning the clock backwards changes the direction, but does not eliminate the effect.
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    Bender, everything in the anti universe is opposite to our own. There are no natural protons in existence or electrons. Protons and electrons in the anit universe exist as common as anti-protons and positrons do in ours.

    An anti universe hydrogen atom is comprised of an anti-proton at its core (with a negative charge) and has one positron (positive charge) in orbit around it. Its quite simple really. Same with the quarks within the anti proton.

    As for photons and gluons I'm not sure if they are any different and are sort of 'grey particles' that do not behave like any other particle in either universe. I'm also not sure there is such thing as 'pro energy' or 'anti energy'.
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  22. #21  
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    it IS simple, but that doesn't make it true. I am not against the theory, don't get me wrong. But why only two universes? Why not three? maybe the third one has an even amount of everything, excessess of anti matter go to the opposite universe to us, and excessess of matter come here.

    You can rationalize anything.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    TO respond to bad wolfs creative ideas

    turning time backwards doesn't make gravity into anti-gravity. Anti-gravity is when you make the force of gravity not have any effect. Turning the clock backwards changes the direction, but does not eliminate the effect.
    There is no such thing as pro gravity or anti graivty, I don't suggest turning back time to make anti gravity, I tried to use a metaphor there.

    Please note, that any furthur explantions for me on my part is going to cease if people are going to be unperceptive of the multiple ideas I express in my posts. I do not think or assume anything AT ALL. Anything I say is theory and is not a concluded belief of anything by any stretch of the imagination, if I say something I mean it literally, do not try to change what it means because it is not. What I say in my post is EXACTLY what I mean and only exactly that, do not try to interopolate anything else from what is there when it is not.

    Just a consideration for you to listen to when trying to understand me because my thinking is very different from the mass and is very difficult for others to understand what I am saying. I pose ideas for you to think about, not to debate or to change.
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusclayman
    it IS simple, but that doesn't make it true. I am not against the theory, don't get me wrong. But why only two universes? Why not three? maybe the third one has an even amount of everything, excessess of anti matter go to the opposite universe to us, and excessess of matter come here.

    You can rationalize anything.
    I understand, I don't really know. The idea of a pro universe and anti universe just sounded really good to me. I am not sure if there are more than two universes like this, I like to call the fact that the two universes exist in this form inverse as in the inversespacetime continuum but I really have no idea where this idea is going, I just like to ponder about it and am glad it is being understood on some level .
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    A white hole might move so fast that it's radiation of matter and energy is spread across a vast area.

    for your viewing pleasure, take a stream of ten dots

    ----------
    now speed it up
    - - - - - - - - - -

    the dots are more spread out... imagine a particle stream moving the speed of light, if it shoots out 1000 particles a second, it would still seem insubstantial.

    maybe this is a black hole in another universe, leaking particles into ours. Who knows how fast universes travel relative to each other, it could be faster than the speed of light. Even if it is 3/4 the speed of light, two universes moving in opposite direction to eachother would be moving 1.5 times the speed of light, to each other.

    The effect would be relatively insubstantial when looking from one point in space, but looking across the entire universe you well see many blackholes, sucking up energy, in the other universe they are moving and spitting it back out, but not like the opposite of a black hole, more like a particle stream originating from an unknown source moving fast and possibly not in a definite path, if universes have different curvatures.
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    please keep in mind there is no evidence of any of that, it is just pondering
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    nice theory!!!!
    K.T.B
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    I WANT TO FIND OUT ABOUT WHITE HOLES BECAUSE IF U GO THROUGH A BLACK HOLE THEY THINK YOU WILL COME OUT THE OTHER END OF A WHITE HOLE. BUT ITS THE CHANCES OF 20 TO 80 AND IM NOT SURE
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    Ahhh I can't wait for the physics of the 21st century.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf
    Bender, everything in the anti universe is opposite to our own. There are no natural protons in existence or electrons. Protons and electrons in the anit universe exist as common as anti-protons and positrons do in ours.

    An anti universe hydrogen atom is comprised of an anti-proton at its core (with a negative charge) and has one positron (positive charge) in orbit around it. Its quite simple really. Same with the quarks within the anti proton.

    As for photons and gluons I'm not sure if they are any different and are sort of 'grey particles' that do not behave like any other particle in either universe. I'm also not sure there is such thing as 'pro energy' or 'anti energy'.
    Let's elaborate on that idea, for the sake of imagination :-p

    Suppose all forces work backwards in this "anti-universe": The strong interaction holding quarks (or antiquarks) together becomes a repulsion force, only influencing each other at very short distances, the electromagnetic force reverses, making all matter anti-matter (reversing all charges), and like charges will attract while different charges repulse. Gravity repulses on a large scale.

    Anything larger than quarks doesn't form, because the reversed strong interaction prevents anything from getting too close: you get big clouds of anti-up-quarks and big clouds of anti-down-quarks, mixed with positrons. The particles vibrate around an equilibrium position between electromagnetic force and strong interaction. The different clouds fly through space. Two similar clouds coming near will merge and two different clouds will bounce of.
    At large, there is a general effect of all the clouds separating more and more as the much weaker reversed gravity makes everything repel everything else.
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    Your explanation is also mere theory and never been tested, but it sounds quite interesting, do you have any links to any sort of experiments on this kind of thing you are explaining because it would help me out a lot.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    nope, I was just wondering what would happen if you reversed all forces. More of a thought experiment than something that really exists. Although it might exist in a "Kandinsky" universe or multiverse. There could be an infinite amount of universes, each of them having different laws of physics, some might very well have something like white holes or forces that resemble the reverse of our forces closely.

    fun fact: the multiverse theory completely eliminates any need for a god to exist, since if there are an infinite amount of universes, it gets quite likely that in some of them life can evolve. Still all theory though.
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  33. #32  
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    Each universe in the multiverse has its own anti universe (maybe more types too) and cause and effect universes which spread into their own muti dimensional existences and interact in ways we cannot possibly explain. Let me just show you, hop into my TARDIS... :wink:
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf
    ...and interact in ways we cannot possibly explain.
    I dunno, we can explain quite a bit with mathematics. Is it provably impossible to explain? Or is it an appeal to psuedoscience of the gaps?
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    I don't feel badwolf is on base here, no offense man, but I can't agree with that theory. It doesn't make sense for there to be an "anti" universe that is opposite to ours with time moving "backward" relative to our time.

    I see a white hole as the ultimate result of a black hole...



    MY theory:

    the way gravity works is as a function of energy and mass, or, better put, ambient kinetic energy and mass. A black hole converts the matter it sucks in into energy that spins at beyond the speed of light at the very center of the singularity. Now, with this function for gravity, as the matter interacts with other matter at that center it slows the overall velocity and causes the black hole to "shrink" as some of the energy becomes stored in other ways. As it shrinks, the total energy increases, as the total mass decreases. This process will cause the Hole to, overall, shrink at some rate,(my alternative to Hawking Radiation) and eventually, become pure energy and through a "big bang" type reaction, become pure matter that explodes through instant conversion of some matter BACK into energy to fuel the kinetic expansion.

    and there you have it, and infinite cycle for a repeating universe.
    Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools, because they have to say something.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf
    Please note, that any furthur explantions for me on my part is going to cease if people are going to be unperceptive of the multiple ideas I express in my posts.
    We can only hope.
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf

    Just a consideration for you to listen to when trying to understand me because my thinking is very different from the mass and is very difficult for others to understand what I am saying. I pose ideas for you to think about, not to debate or to change.
    You must be aware that there are individuals, posting here, with a strong background in the science subjects. I'm not one of them!
    However I do realise your "thinking" is on a completely different level and should never be questioned!
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  38. #37  
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    ...and infinite cycle for a repeating universe.
    That's ironic, because in my theory the anti universe becomes the pro universe and vice versa at the end of each cycle.

    You must be aware that there are individuals, posting here, with a strong background in the science subjects. I'm not one of them!
    However I do realise your "thinking" is on a completely different level and should never be questioned!
    I understand their strong background and respect it, I too have a decent background in physics and I want to get across what I am posting is mere theory and that crossing it to known science will just contradict my theory anyway so there is no point in me explaining it if you get me. I'd be happy for questions, its just that I can only explain those questions with some relative answers I have only if people come out of the box.

    We can only hope.
    Your mother :P (Sarcastic indifference with a hint of a friendly joke (for the benefit of some fas*!st mods))
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