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Thread: The Universe Expanding

  1. #1 The Universe Expanding 
    Forum Freshman agent1022's Avatar
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    Imagine an empty space. As in like, nothing. Nothing....except a atom-sized compressed matter ball. And then the thing explodes in a big bang, throwing off a gigantic light-sphere that expands around it with the exploding universe in the middle. Then the universe forms and galaxies are made and the solar system and the sun and the planets and the earth, blah blah blah.

    What my theory here is, what if the edge of the universe is the light-sphere thrown off by the big bang, moving through an infinite space? Nothing can pass it because nothing can go faster than the speed of light, and therefore it is an effective boundary, and the universe would constantly be expanding because this light-sphere is still moving outwards!

    And now I can spot piles of flaws in the theory.

    But input would be nice.


    One day, we will discover that everything ever invented or created exists as an element.

    Barring that, we'll discover the existence of Plotdevicium.

    Barring THAT, we'll discover how to most effectively give up.
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    Is this a thought exercise, or is it supposed to have bearing on reality?

    As far as I know there was no empty space before, during or after the big bang. There is also no such thing as "around" the big bang. The name is a bit unlucky, because there wasn't really a "bang" either.


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    Forum Freshman agent1022's Avatar
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    Just a thought experiment.
    One day, we will discover that everything ever invented or created exists as an element.

    Barring that, we'll discover the existence of Plotdevicium.

    Barring THAT, we'll discover how to most effectively give up.
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    I have honestly thought the exact same thing before. It makes perfect sense to me. Like the light wave is infinitely bright and is cutting through nothing leaving our universe behind it, and we can't see the light because it is traveling away in all directions, at the speed of light. i even started thinking how maybe if the light has infinite energy it would be pulling all matter towards it through gravity, causing expansion. I know people can probably prove this wrong more ways than i can count though. It does make sense to me though.
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    Okay guys........Here's what I (blindly or not) believe....

    That we are in a multiverse. That when a black-hole is created, a universe too is created. Firstly, not all universes are able to support matter, let alone life, If you "fell" down towards a black-hole (assuming you were not shredded by the immense gravitational waves - which you would be) you would be falling forever, you would NEVER reach the singularity, and that is because a singularity cannot exist. It can appear to exist, but mathematically it cannot. Think of Dr. Who's TARDIS - being bigger on the inside - or at least appearing to be. - That is what i believe you would find a black-hole singularity to be; just as it is ever contracting, inside it, it would appear to be expanding. A bit of a head trip i know but when you think of say the animal kingdom you might say the ant is tiny and the elephant huge. But what would a microbe say about the ant? - You see spatial perception is RELATIVE to the observer!

    Now, as I have mentioned not all black-hole singularities go on to create a universe that we experience. - Some only last for a fleeting second (in our perception of time) Take for instance the micro BH's created when cosmic rays strike the atmosphere; without any infalling matter to sustain them, they will soon evaporate. However a black-hole created by an imploding sun is a different matter.

    So I believe that our universe was created at the time of an imploding star in a "higher" universe, and that imploding stars in our universe will go on to create other universes, ad infinitum.

    Now....I believe that the reason why our universe is expanding now at an ever faster rate is simply because the "higher" universe black-hole has started to feed again. Now for the real head trippy part........I also believe that, the BH that we exist in is spherical, however everypoint that we can move in space within the three dimensions is actually only on the surface of the spherical blackhole - which may explain the curvuture that we see within the universe today. - So, with the surface of the sphere being our boundry may explain the apparent expansion of space - draw to dots on a baloon 1cm apart, now inflate the baloon and the two dots will now be more than 1cm apart - because they are on the surface and the inflation is making the space between them expand, even though the dots themselves are not moving. - Now with this "sperical surface" boundry in place, it is possible that some high energy particles such as tachyons could be able to transcend this boundry region, even if only momentarily, which is why they appear to dissappear and appear from nothing.


    I hope that I have made sense in what I believe and I also hope that my theory cannot be denied with just one sentence - however as always i welcome comments :-)
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Okay guys........Here's what I (blindly or not) believe....

    That we are in a multiverse. That when a black-hole is created, a universe too is created. Firstly, not all universes are able to support matter, let alone life, If you "fell" down towards a black-hole (assuming you were not shredded by the immense gravitational waves - which you would be) you would be falling forever, you would NEVER reach the singularity, and that is because a singularity cannot exist. It can appear to exist, but mathematically it cannot. Think of Dr. Who's TARDIS - being bigger on the inside - or at least appearing to be. - That is what i believe you would find a black-hole singularity to be; just as it is ever contracting, inside it, it would appear to be expanding. A bit of a head trip i know but when you think of say the animal kingdom you might say the ant is tiny and the elephant huge. But what would a microbe say about the ant? - You see spatial perception is RELATIVE to the observer!

    Now, as I have mentioned not all black-hole singularities go on to create a universe that we experience. - Some only last for a fleeting second (in our perception of time) Take for instance the micro BH's created when cosmic rays strike the atmosphere; without any infalling matter to sustain them, they will soon evaporate. However a black-hole created by an imploding sun is a different matter.

    So I believe that our universe was created at the time of an imploding star in a "higher" universe, and that imploding stars in our universe will go on to create other universes, ad infinitum.

    Now....I believe that the reason why our universe is expanding now at an ever faster rate is simply because the "higher" universe black-hole has started to feed again. Now for the real head trippy part........I also believe that, the BH that we exist in is spherical, however everypoint that we can move in space within the three dimensions is actually only on the surface of the spherical blackhole - which may explain the curvuture that we see within the universe today. - So, with the surface of the sphere being our boundry may explain the apparent expansion of space - draw to dots on a baloon 1cm apart, now inflate the baloon and the two dots will now be more than 1cm apart - because they are on the surface and the inflation is making the space between them expand, even though the dots themselves are not moving. - Now with this "sperical surface" boundry in place, it is possible that some high energy particles such as tachyons could be able to transcend this boundry region, even if only momentarily, which is why they appear to dissappear and appear from nothing.


    I hope that I have made sense in what I believe and I also hope that my theory cannot be denied with just one sentence - however as always i welcome comments :-)
    Little kids believe in the Easter Bunny, with roughly the same justification.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Professor leohopkins's Avatar
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    Hmmmm.

    I WAS hoping for a better remark than that!
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Hmmmm.

    I WAS hoping for a better remark than that!
    Sorry, Leo, but I agree with DrRocket. As Wittgenstein said "Whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent."

    That's not a comment on your training in physics, or lack thereof. You are speculating about things that are even beyond the knowledge of the experts.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Think of Dr. Who's TARDIS
    I'm happy to see you at least provided a source for your speculations. Well done. :wink:
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  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman asxz's Avatar
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    There is a theory that goes like this...
    If you were a flatlander (a 2-d being) then you could walk around a sphere in your 2-Dimentional world. You would eventually come back to the beginning, without ever leaving the 2-D world but passing through the 3rd dimension. If humans were able to go impossibly fast-say 1,000 times the speed of light and we were able to catch up to the expansion, then we would pass through the 4th dimension and eventually end up back at earth if we traveled in a straight line. Itís the same thing as the flatlander passing through the third dimension by walking on a sphere, but never being aware of the fact that he has left his own dimension to climb through a portal made by the one above it!
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  12. #11  
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    interesting theory. stands up in a lot of ways. but i think its a bit shakey.


    lets brake it down... bare with me.

    the 2d man travels along 1 of the infinate 2d paths of a 3d sphere. never percieving or interacting with the 3rd dimension, but effectively traveling through *cough* it, due to the fact he traced a path leading back to his original position.

    alright.

    so say if a 3d man sits on a caracel. he goes round and round and up and down. he is traveling through all 3 dimensions, but also traveling *through* this unperceived 4th dimention.

    ok. so my point is the higher dimensions are built ontop of, and around, the preceding. traveling in 1 dimension is theoretically possible in all of them.

    the 2d man had to travel in all possible directions within the 2 dimensions, to trace the parimeter of an object that can exist in 3d. in doing so he returned to his original position ( circle is the shortest path for this journey).

    in other words, in order to return to his original location, he had to travel in every possible direction in his 2d universe. and in doing so, created a path around a 2d object, which is also viable as a path around a 3d object.

    so the logical conclusion is that to replicate the 2d mans feat, we would have to find a 3d path back to our original position, traveling in all possible directions of 3d space... a bit hard without at least partial omni-presents (i think you would need to "travel" in 2 of the 3 dimensions at once). and even then we are only travelling in one of the infinate paths around a 4d object.

    if the 2d man set off on a 1d path, he will never get back to his starting point... i dont see why it should be any different for a 3d man on a 1d path.

    im playing around trying to extrapolate this metaphor to a different conclusion. doing some drawings and ive run into a rubix-cube style problem... interesting.

    ill post up my drawings when im done
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  13. #12  
    Forum Freshman asxz's Avatar
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    redrighthand wrote:

    the 2d man had to travel in all possible directions within the 2 dimensions, to trace the parimeter of an object that can exist in 3d. in doing so he returned to his original position ( circle is the shortest path for this journey).

    in other words, in order to return to his original location, he had to travel in every possible direction in his 2d universe. and in doing so, created a path around a 2d object, which is also viable as a path around a 3d object.
    Not necessarily. The 2d man only had to walk in a straight line. Imagine the joining of the circle (the line running around the middle circumference) if the 2d man walked around there, then he would only walk on a perceiving flat straight line and end up where he begun. The 2d man would only think he has stayed safe and warm in the 2nd dimension.

    And anyway... the 2d man would not have noticed or even thought about leaving the 2nd dimension, and could not possibly think of a 3rd dimension, so 3d beings cannot possibly think of leaving the 3rd dimension even though we might have passed through it numerous times.
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