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Thread: The Higgs Boson and its effect on the Standard Model?

  1. #1 The Higgs Boson and its effect on the Standard Model? 
    Forum Freshman agent1022's Avatar
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    I know this'll sound completely nuts, but what will happen when the Higgs is discovered (or not)? I mean, if it is discovered, the Standard Model will be complete and we will finally understand the universe. Maybe I've read too many SF novels, but wouldn't the universe bend or something in order to not be understood?

    Okay, that didn't make much sense.

    What I'm saying is that if the Standard Model is finished, then they'll be nothing left to discover (well, maybe some cleaning up here and there), and we'll be bored out of our minds. But then again, Einstein was told that physics was finished when he entered the field, and the rest is history.

    But I think that the Higgs can't exist, because then we would know something totally and we can't have that?

    Sorry, the whole theory is very half-formulated in my mind.


    One day, we will discover that everything ever invented or created exists as an element.

    Barring that, we'll discover the existence of Plotdevicium.

    Barring THAT, we'll discover how to most effectively give up.
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  3. #2 Re: The Higgs Boson and its effect on the Standard Model? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent1022
    I know this'll sound completely nuts, but what will happen when the Higgs is discovered (or not)? I mean, if it is discovered, the Standard Model will be complete and we will finally understand the universe. Maybe I've read too many SF novels, but wouldn't the universe bend or something in order to not be understood?

    Okay, that didn't make much sense.

    What I'm saying is that if the Standard Model is finished, then they'll be nothing left to discover (well, maybe some cleaning up here and there), and we'll be bored out of our minds. But then again, Einstein was told that physics was finished when he entered the field, and the rest is history.

    But I think that the Higgs can't exist, because then we would know something totally and we can't have that?

    Sorry, the whole theory is very half-formulated in my mind.
    Benjamin Franklin believe it or not. Pretty much finished up the work on understanding the universe. In a very solid and basic way. But he and George Washington felt that knowledge was doomed under British law makers.

    Understanding the universe is fun, and it opens the door to unlimited possibilities. None of which can be utilized for good under law makers.

    Science and understanding the universe was never our problem, law makers were.

    There is no Higgs Boson particle. All subatomic particles are electrons. They came out and told me in a public school that as of 1973 it would be against the law to teach the atom correctly in school.

    What most of the younger people and people that did not live on my island, don't know, is where science was in the sixties. It was far ahead of where it is now. Then the government came down like a hammer on our area. There were threats of military action if certain un-American things, did not take place.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick


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  4. #3  
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    Firstly, the standard model is not the only thing in the universe. It does not include gravity or dark matter (or dark energy i think).

    Secondly, why can't we understand it all? How would the universe 'know' that we understood it? I highly doubt the universe would change it's laws because of some chemical reactions in insignificant organisms.
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  5. #4  
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    I agree with Stuart. The universe doesn't care about humans, earth, the solar system or even our whole galaxy. Each is just a speck on a bigger speck.

    I'll add though that due to Gödel's incompleteness theorems imply that there will always be more to discover (in a kind of round about way).
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    I agree with Stuart. The universe doesn't care about humans, earth, the solar system or even our whole galaxy. Each is just a speck on a bigger speck.

    I'll add though that due to Gödel's incompleteness theorems imply that there will always be more to discover (in a kind of round about way).
    Would it really imply that though? I would argue that they would only mean that we can never know if our mathematics is actually correct, but i dont think that would necessarily mean there would be more physics to discover. However, my knowledge of incompleteness is at best (pause for comedic effect...) incomplete. 8)
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  7. #6  
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    If you look at the universe as a set of mathematical laws, then I thing incompleteness would imply that we can never prove that we know everything. I think there may be other ways of interpreting this though, since I can't remember where I originally found this idea.
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    Forum Freshman agent1022's Avatar
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    I thought a bit more about it, and I realized that my idea was actually very much based off of Douglas Adams. Hmm.

    So to sum it all up: Even if the Standard Model is completed, there will still be nonstandard models (things that don't fit into the set of the standard model) that exist within this universe?

    But if the universe is finite, then doesn't that imply that eventually, the possible will be exhausted?

    Or do we go into the theory of an infinite number of finite universes?
    One day, we will discover that everything ever invented or created exists as an element.

    Barring that, we'll discover the existence of Plotdevicium.

    Barring THAT, we'll discover how to most effectively give up.
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  9. #8  
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    I think you somewhat miss the point here. Why couldn't we just eventually know it all? You seem to assume that this is impossible - but i see no reason to believe that.
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  10. #9  
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    Well, it all depends on how the universe is - if it is finite, we'll eventually know all there is to know about it (but then they'll be parallel universes to sort out). If it is infinite, you can't have infinity knowledge!
    One day, we will discover that everything ever invented or created exists as an element.

    Barring that, we'll discover the existence of Plotdevicium.

    Barring THAT, we'll discover how to most effectively give up.
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  11. #10  
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    Agreed.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman agent1022's Avatar
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    Still, the delay of the LHC's high energy collision...it's almost if some higher power doesn't want us to find the Higgs...
    One day, we will discover that everything ever invented or created exists as an element.

    Barring that, we'll discover the existence of Plotdevicium.

    Barring THAT, we'll discover how to most effectively give up.
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