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Thread: Magnetism

  1. #1 Magnetism 
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    Electric field is created by electrons or electric charges. Then what is actually magnetic field or magnetism? What creates a magnetic field?


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    There are two possible answers.

    The easy one: Magnetism is caused by changing electric fields. Macroscopically, this is easy to understand. Every electric coil is just an electric conductor that efficiently uses this principle to produce a magnetic field. For natural magnetism, it is not so easy to understand. Imagine (it is just a model that happens to work, don't take it for real) an electron spinning around its axis. The electron is charged, therefore spinning causes a microscopic current that again produces a magnetic field. If you have many of those electrons that are orientated in the same direction, all these microscopic magnetic fields add up to a measurable value. Many metals are susceptible to magnetism, because they contain free electrons that align their spinning axis to an outer magnetic field.

    The difficult one: It is a quantum mechanical effect. First, I don't remember so much of it that I could accurately explain it now. Second, just like electrons are not really solid spherical particles that rotate (but the model works pretty well) the source of magnetism is not really a consequence of a rotating charged particle. It is caused by the spin of elementary particles that for macroscopic bodies accidentally happens to act like a rotating electric charge.

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field


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    Sir
    You said that an electron spinning around its axis is charged, therefore spinning causes a microscopic current that again produces a magnetic field. My doubt is what is this magnetic field. Electric field is the space around an electric charge which exerts a force on other electrically charged particles. Similarly how can we define magnetic field independently? Can we define the magnetic field without mentioning current, charge etc?
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  5. #4  
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    Ever hear of electromagnetism? Electricity and magnetism are the same basic thing. You don't really get one without the other.
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    Exactly. Look up the Maxwell equations. They tell you how both phenomena are related: No "magnetic charge", induction by a changing electric field. Of course, it's still a matter of debate, whether "magnetic monopoles" might exist. But they have never been observed.
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  7. #6 Re: Magnetism 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sreeja
    Electric field is created by electrons or electric charges. Then what is actually magnetic field or magnetism? What creates a magnetic field?
    I learned a magnetic field slowed some ambient radiation (high speed electrons). Causing pressure upon some areas and parts of the magnet. And positively accelerated some ambient radiation in other areas. Causing a lack of repulsion.

    Basically a magnet creates a diode, that controls the flow of ambient radiation. Causing repulsion, or lack of repulsion. Because there is no such thing as attraction.

    But my views and teachings are old and no longer adhered to.

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    William McCormick
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  8. #7 Re: Magnetism 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sreeja
    Electric field is created by electrons or electric charges. Then what is actually magnetic field or magnetism? What creates a magnetic field?
    The magnetic field is basically the result of the flow of current -- moving electric charges. That current need not change time. You can also get a magnetic field, and indeed a propagating electromagnetic wave with fields that change in time. The complete answer is contained in Maxwell's equations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_theory
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  9. #8 Re: Magnetism 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sreeja
    Electric field is created by electrons or electric charges. Then what is actually magnetic field or magnetism? What creates a magnetic field?
    Electromagnetism is a relativistic theory. To one observer at rest, a collection of stationary charges has only associated electric fields.

    To an observer in relative translation there are both electric and magnetic fields.

    The electric field can be defined in terms of a thing called the 4-vector potential, or electromagnetic potential. It's a vector with both space and time components. The one that you are familiar with, the Coulomb potential is the temporal component.

    Anyway, both the electric and magnetic fields are space and time derivatives of this vector field. The electric and magnetic fields tell you how much the vector field changes over distance, and over time.

    Because it's a relativistic theory, changing inertial frames changes the direction the vector points, and thus, the electric and magnetic fields, as well.
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  10. #9 Re: Magnetism 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sreeja
    Electric field is created by electrons or electric charges. Then what is actually magnetic field or magnetism? What creates a magnetic field?

    Ambient radiation is slowed and can push objects either together or apart. There is no such thing as attraction. Colleges can no longer discuss this.


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    William McCormick
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  11. #10 Re: Magnetism 
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Ambient radiation is slowed and can push objects either together or apart. There is no such thing as attraction. Colleges can no longer discuss this.
    Hu?
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  12. #11 Re: Magnetism 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ought
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Ambient radiation is slowed and can push objects either together or apart. There is no such thing as attraction. Colleges can no longer discuss this.
    Hu?

    Colleges can no longer discuss or demonstrate attraction. The last time they tried, it ended with two college guys hugging themselves, rather red faced.

    But they got the government grant, despite the failure of explaining it.


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  13. #12  
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    I know my college discusses it, and demonstrates it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    I know my college discusses it, and demonstrates it.

    Oh, please share that with me.

    I have had college people in the field tell me that a vacuum sucks the air and walls, on and into a container connected to a vacuum pump. And they state that is the actual happening. Because they have been subjected to years of counterintelligence.

    Nothing has ever been sucked anywhere. It has only been pushed. Nothing has ever been pulled. It has only been pushed. Even a rope believe it or not. Can only push. Tendons only push, by the tiny area they are attached and intertwined with the bone. They do not actually pull.

    That is what is not understood about gravity. We only see a tiny force that ambient radiation is capable of. The pressures on atoms necessary to maintain things like tendons become apparent, if you are looking for them. There is so much pressure on atoms that most would not believe it.

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    William McCormick
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  15. #14  
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    It's been too long for me to repeat the exact words.

    Anyway, a vacuum sucks in air because it is by definition a lower pressure zone than the area around it. Things more from high temperature/pressure to low temperature/pressure. Yes, the air around is pushing other air into the vacuum, but using that as a reason to say that a vacuum doesn't pull in air is the same as saying the rope isn't pulling on the block just because the block is pulling on the rope.

    Anyway, this is all completely off-topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    It's been too long for me to repeat the exact words.

    Anyway, a vacuum sucks in air because it is by definition a lower pressure zone than the area around it. Things more from high temperature/pressure to low temperature/pressure. Yes, the air around is pushing other air into the vacuum, but using that as a reason to say that a vacuum doesn't pull in air is the same as saying the rope isn't pulling on the block just because the block is pulling on the rope.

    Anyway, this is all completely off-topic.

    The block attached to the rope does not pull at the rope. The rope is pushed by the moving block the whole way, or a loop or hook the rope is attached to.

    The block removes some counter force from the rope. And the rope is pushed by the block or some hook or loop on the block. The rest of the rope follows because counter force has been removed. And the rest of the rope is pushed till it is taunt.

    When the rope is out of stretch, the only thing that keeps the rope together is pressure upon the ropes atoms. There is zero attraction.

    Multi subatomic particle scientists, could not demonstrate attraction. They never have and they never will. Because there is no attraction in this universe. Only pressure.

    Well actually two of the multi subatomic particle scientists did try, and they ended up kind of hugging each other on stage. It was the end of science on earth. Even the universal scientists gave up. It was like working with retards.

    You could end up in a fight if you press a multi subatomic particle scientist on this point. All their lies are based on this point. And they have no point. No proof.

    But that is how much pressure is on atoms from ambient radiation. Most people have no idea of the power available to us.


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    William McCormick
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Well actually two of the multi subatomic particle scientists did try, and they ended up kind of hugging each other on stage.
    Care to name names?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Well actually two of the multi subatomic particle scientists did try, and they ended up kind of hugging each other on stage.
    Care to name names?
    I wish I could. However I don't remember the name of the Universal Scientist that told me about it. We did get a good laugh at the time though. Because we already knew there is no such thing as attraction. Try demonstrating attraction, you might get what I mean. Ha-ha.

    I think the Universal Scientists name was Professor Casablanca.

    There were only 17 Universal Scientists left at the time. They were dying out because the government was only paying, and only allowing non-universal scientists to teach the atom at the time.


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    William McCormick
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  19. #18  
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    So you admit this is only second-hand knowledge? When and where was this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    So you admit this is only second-hand knowledge? When and where was this?
    It was during a lecture from a Universal Scientist invited to our school to lecture the honor science students.

    I already knew everything the man had to say, from my father and Grumman Aero Space. But the professor, did have a superior mastery of the English language, and of technical well known's of science. And key points in the history and origin of the phony neutron. And of the radio active isotopes.

    During the lecture he talked about things, I already knew about. Like the course of education, in America. And how and why very poor scientists went for the money and counterintelligence.
    We wondered how they were getting phony particles past scientists. He said that during the debates, when real universal scientists confronted the neutron scientists, with attraction. And demanded that they demonstrate attraction. That two of them got up with confidence, and then stood there dumbfounded, for some time.

    After a few minutes it ended with the two of them hugging each other, or actually he put it "making hugging like gestures kind of around each other".

    The universal scientists figured, well that is the end of that. But to their horror, the grants went to the multi subatomic scientists. To create a perfect vacuum that of course cannot exist.

    So sure it is hearsay, but to be honest I had similar occurrences in my own life. When discussing it with professors, teachers, scientists, doctors, engineers and others. They kept it such a secret, that no one learned from their mistake.

    I told you guys about it before you made fools of yourself. Ha-ha.


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    William McCormick
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  21. #20  
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    Sorry William, you're the only one making a fool out of yourself here. Your government consiparcy theories just don't work in the real world. Governments are too incompetent to keep such secrets.

    On top of that, you can't actually name a single universal scientist that's still alive, and you have no proof that any of the people you do name believed in anything you are saying.

    Anyway, this is all completely off topic. Can you try to keep your ideas to the threads that ask for them?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    Sorry William, you're the only one making a fool out of yourself here. Your government consiparcy theories just don't work in the real world. Governments are too incompetent to keep such secrets.

    On top of that, you can't actually name a single universal scientist that's still alive, and you have no proof that any of the people you do name believed in anything you are saying.

    Anyway, this is all completely off topic. Can you try to keep your ideas to the threads that ask for them?
    So of course you will demonstrate the most simple principle, of the multi subatomic particle scientists theory of the atom, "attraction" for us.

    Or at least explain to us, the workings and mechanisms of attraction. I have never seen attraction or any sign of it. So it would be fascinating if you could do that.

    You talk about large masses creating more gravity, or what you call attraction. Think of the tiny atoms, and what little attraction they would create.

    The Universal Scientists idea of gravity and the atoms ability to stay pressed to other atoms, is pressure from ambient radiation. With velocity of ambient radiation playing a part in the pressure created.

    Remember I never claimed a conspiracy, you are the only one claiming a conspiracy exists or has been declared.
    I say that we have condoned the lies of law makers. Lies that they state as truth, and we know for sure are lies. But we have no real voice, so we put up with the lies.


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    William McCormick
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Remember I never claimed a conspiracy, you are the only one claiming a conspiracy exists or has been declared.
    I say that we have condoned the lies of law makers. Lies that they state as truth, and we know for sure are lies. But we have no real voice, so we put up with the lies.
    You don't declare a conspiracy, it exists by definition if it exists at all, and what you state fits the definition of a conspiracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    So of course you will demonstrate the most simple principle, of the multi subatomic particle scientists theory of the atom, "attraction" for us.

    Or at least explain to us, the workings and mechanisms of attraction. I have never seen attraction or any sign of it. So it would be fascinating if you could do that.

    You talk about large masses creating more gravity, or what you call attraction. Think of the tiny atoms, and what little attraction they would create.
    I never claimed to know the precise cause or finest workings of gravity. At the moment, you are the only one making such claims. Baselessly I might add. And yes, a single atom produces a tiny, tiny amount of gravity, but do you have any idea how many atoms there are in the earth or the moon? Each little bit adds up.

    Instead of explaining gravity, I'll explain what causes a vacuum to suck air inside, since you doubt that as well. Note that I am not talking about a perfect vacuum, just any region of lower pressure. For simplicity, I'll describe the edge between a low pressure and a high pressure zone just as a barrier between the two is removed.

    Imagine what this looks like at the molecule level. One one side of the barrier, there are a lot of molecules moving around, bumping into the barrier and each other. On the other side, there are still molecules moving around, bumping into things, but there are a lot fewer of them. When the barrier is removed, all those molecules that would have bumped into the barrier now pass into the other zone instead. Since more molecules were hitting the barrier on the high pressure side, the net result is a motion of molecules from the high pressure to the low pressure zone.

    Now, I already know what you're going to say. Something like "Aha! See nothing is attracting the molecules." The point is that there is a net motion towards a point or zone. Thus, the zone is attracting whatever's in motion.

    I'm not a physicist, so I can't explain the fine details of electromagnetism, and like I said, currently no one knows the fine details of gravity. However, can some of the physicists on this board explain what causes one charged/magnetic particle to attract another?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    Remember I never claimed a conspiracy, you are the only one claiming a conspiracy exists or has been declared.
    I say that we have condoned the lies of law makers. Lies that they state as truth, and we know for sure are lies. But we have no real voice, so we put up with the lies.
    You don't declare a conspiracy, it exists by definition if it exists at all, and what you state fits the definition of a conspiracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    So of course you will demonstrate the most simple principle, of the multi subatomic particle scientists theory of the atom, "attraction" for us.

    Or at least explain to us, the workings and mechanisms of attraction. I have never seen attraction or any sign of it. So it would be fascinating if you could do that.

    You talk about large masses creating more gravity, or what you call attraction. Think of the tiny atoms, and what little attraction they would create.
    I never claimed to know the precise cause or finest workings of gravity. At the moment, you are the only one making such claims. Baselessly I might add. And yes, a single atom produces a tiny, tiny amount of gravity, but do you have any idea how many atoms there are in the earth or the moon? Each little bit adds up.

    Instead of explaining gravity, I'll explain what causes a vacuum to suck air inside, since you doubt that as well. Note that I am not talking about a perfect vacuum, just any region of lower pressure. For simplicity, I'll describe the edge between a low pressure and a high pressure zone just as a barrier between the two is removed.

    Imagine what this looks like at the molecule level. One one side of the barrier, there are a lot of molecules moving around, bumping into the barrier and each other. On the other side, there are still molecules moving around, bumping into things, but there are a lot fewer of them. When the barrier is removed, all those molecules that would have bumped into the barrier now pass into the other zone instead. Since more molecules were hitting the barrier on the high pressure side, the net result is a motion of molecules from the high pressure to the low pressure zone.

    Now, I already know what you're going to say. Something like "Aha! See nothing is attracting the molecules." The point is that there is a net motion towards a point or zone. Thus, the zone is attracting whatever's in motion.

    I'm not a physicist, so I can't explain the fine details of electromagnetism, and like I said, currently no one knows the fine details of gravity. However, can some of the physicists on this board explain what causes one charged/magnetic particle to attract another?

    I clearly said that a conspiracy does not exist. But in your mind it does, and it is huge, because it makes you afraid to confront lying law makers.

    We watch them lie for hours on TV. They lie loud, they lie softly. Sometimes they lie about their opponents right in their faces. Or accuse them of treasonous acts right to their faces.
    Yet neither law maker gets a gun and shoots the other for treasonous acts they accuse one another of, as part of their sworn duty to stop treason to America.

    On one hand you claim, that I feel there is a conspiracy. No way!

    I feel there are lying scum in Washington DC, running the biggest scam I know of. But the lying scum do announce it, and let us know it. That is not a conspiracy. It may not even be a scam. That is a promise to punish useless sheep, and take their lives and possessions. I almost want to be a law maker and help them. Ha-ha.

    Sure they know we cannot get through the red tape. But at this point we are some kind of freaks that don't deserve much respect. And the law makers have been caught saying things like that.
    We do not really do anything about it. Because we know it is true. The law makers if they do come under scrutiny, usually step down and move on to high paid executive positions in some company that they did favors for and can still do favors for.

    Now you could construe that I think that you are part of a conspiracy with multi subatomic particle scientists to hide the law makers evil actions. I do not feel that way at all.

    I just think you are a useless coward. Hiding anything that makes that obvious. The definition of sickness. The big sickness.

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    William McCormick
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    Magimaster, I had asked you to explain how atoms stick together, creating the force that makes steel, stay in one piece? And not fragment off into atoms?

    The whole multi subatomic particle scientists basic premise is that atoms cling together by attraction. Where or how would a force of attraction so great come from or be created.

    When there has never been anyone anywhere that can demonstrate attraction. Only repulsion.


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    William McCormick
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  26. #25  
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    The forces that hold an object together are electromagnetic forces. I just said that, since I'm not a physicist, I don't understand the fine details of how that works well enough to put it down in sensible words. (Still, even if what you say is true, it wouldn't really apply to real world applications where the mere existance of a net force towards an object would be labeled as an attraction.)

    Again, can one of the physicists on these boards explain how electromagnetic forces holds two atoms together?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    The forces that hold an object together are electromagnetic forces. I just said that, since I'm not a physicist, I don't understand the fine details of how that works well enough to put it down in sensible words. (Still, even if what you say is true, it wouldn't really apply to real world applications where the mere existance of a net force towards an object would be labeled as an attraction.)

    Again, can one of the physicists on these boards explain how electromagnetic forces holds two atoms together?

    I don't think they can explain it.


    I realy did not mean to hammer at you, for what we are all guilty of.

    I meant to just stop the onslaught, of modern pseudo science, against universal science. Universal science that was doing pretty good on its own. It was starting to earn its 99.99 percent reputation. It even built the devices that some misused to prove modern science.

    Some young scientists that went south, were told or asked, "if Universal scientists were so good, would they have let our men die on the German battle fields"?

    And of course the answer was yes they would let them die on the battle field, they really had no choice in it. Or say in it.

    Have you ever seen a bar fight, where someone you don't know walks up to the local crowd and does something to a young lady, that seems mean or threatening?
    One of the locals jumps on the guy. The next thing you know, the whole bar is fighting. It turns out that the girl was his little cousin. And he was just teasing her about her boy friend.

    At that point the guys who are bleeding or hurt, really do not want to know anymore. They still want to be mad, angry and hurt. That is all that happened really, with our country and science.

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    William McCormick
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    I will attempt to explain it, but I think we should maybe move this to William's thread. Attraction is caused by the exchange of gauge bosons. The gauge boson for electromagnetism is the photon.

    The simplest example is an electron being attracted to a positron. As the electron approaches the positron, it emits a photon in the opposite direction to the positron. The momentum carried away by the photon causes the electron to move towards the positron.

    Now, at this scale Heisenbergs uncertainty principle comes into play. As the momentum is defined by some degree of accuracy, there is uncertainty as to where the perticle actually is. As a result of this, the same photon actually hits the positron from behind, and causes it also to move towards the electron.

    There are analogous examples for the other forces. (Although nobody is sure of the mechanism for gravity. The graviton is postulated as the mediator of gravity.)

    Another way of explaining attraction is to use a general relativistic explantion of gravity. The presence of mass bends spacetime, causing objects to move towards the object.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Thomson
    I will attempt to explain it, but I think we should maybe move this to William's thread. Attraction is caused by the exchange of gauge bosons. The gauge boson for electromagnetism is the photon.

    The simplest example is an electron being attracted to a positron. As the electron approaches the positron, it emits a photon in the opposite direction to the positron. The momentum carried away by the photon causes the electron to move towards the positron.

    Now, at this scale Heisenbergs uncertainty principle comes into play. As the momentum is defined by some degree of accuracy, there is uncertainty as to where the perticle actually is. As a result of this, the same photon actually hits the positron from behind, and causes it also to move towards the electron.

    There are analogous examples for the other forces. (Although nobody is sure of the mechanism for gravity. The graviton is postulated as the mediator of gravity.)

    Another way of explaining attraction is to use a general relativistic explantion of gravity. The presence of mass bends spacetime, causing objects to move towards the object.

    And of course each explanation is sillier then the next. Because no demonstration of a force of attraction can be demonstrated.

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    William McCormick
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  30. #29  
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    William, your understanding of something is not what reality is based on. You are not special.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiMaster
    William, your understanding of something is not what reality is based on. You are not special.
    Perhaps not special or ordained by a higher power. However I know when you cannot demonstrate or prove attraction.

    But you can demonstrate and prove repulsion. Repulsion works.



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    William McCormick
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  32. #31  
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    William, you couldn't demonstrate or prove anything. You'd have already done so if you could. And covering your eyes and ears when someone tries to demonstrate something is not the same as them being unable to demonstrate it.

    Yes. Repulsion works. No one is trying to deny that. Attraction works too, if for no other reason than it is the opposite of repulsion, what you get when repulsion isn't strong enough, etc.
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