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Thread: a question about microwaves

  1. #1 a question about microwaves 
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    I have a question about how microwaves can induce an electrical "current".

    Does anyone know what the correct explanation is for microwaves to induce a current in a wire.

    I have been playing around with standard electrical "fuses" and a microwaves, and when I turn the microwave energy on the fuses "blow out". Is that normal? I've heard that NASA uses microwave energy to ignite the fuel of the space-shuttle, to create an electrostatic discharge, without using any direct connection between the space shuttle and the outer microwave starting device, but what is the exact nature of the science operating there. I know microwaves heat things up, but to induce a strong current in each of my fuse experiments appears very "lucky" or maybe this is a normal phenomena?


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  3. #2 Blown fuses. 
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    A simple definition of microwaves"Electromagnetic radiation having a wavelength of 1 to 300 mm (frequency between infrared and radio waves)." Electricity is created by passing a magnetic field through a conductor. If you set a conductor in a microwave field, you are passing electromagnetic radiation through the conductor, and therefore producing electricity. But the reason for your fuses blowing, is simple. Fuses are thermal. When current passes through the fuse, it produces heat. The more current, the more heat. Each is rated for a certain amount of heat. When metal is placed in a microwave, it creates a lot of heat. It is the heat that blows the fuse. A more accurate study, would be to place a coil of copper in a microwave field, and extend the two ends out of the field, and place a fuse between the two leads. If it blows then, you have electricity.


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  4. #3  
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    That's what I thought.

    The fuses though didn't blow from the heat, they blew from a sizeable electrostatic discharge given the pyrotechnics display they exhibited in the microwave field. Always, the microwave energy was on for less than 3 seconds on a med-low level, not enough to really heat up anything, which made me think that an electrostatic phenomena was afoot, that a current large enough to cause the fuses to blow was the cause, as induced by the microwave field.

    I must admit though, I have been researching ways to most efficiently induce current in specially designed circuits in microwave fields. Is there though any interest by scientific agencies in such research iother than my own efforts?

    One of my research interests is to harness the background microwave radiation of space-time. Why? It's there, that's why. You offer a slight push to someone on a seesaw, and that's all you need to keep the swing operational. The background microwave radiation can be accessed, used, as that slight "push", so to speak, on an interfacing microwave electrical circuit, the aim being to provide "continual current", the larger the system of circuits, the more energy that can be drawn. I saw an episode on mythbusters and they tested the idea of it being possible to set up quite a resonance of vibration by tuning the resonance, as small as it would seem, to the surrounding structure. Why not then apply the same concept to accessing the background microwave radiation? All one needs to do is know how to construct the right microwave circuits to access and interface with that energy.
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  5. #4 Induced electricity from background microwaves 
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    Read my posting on cheap electricity. The principle is exactly the same. Both radio wave and microwaves are magnetic fields. Remember, we produce AC electricity by passing a rotating magnetic field through a conductor.
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  6. #5  
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    Yes, I read your post. But I think microwaves are more practical. I just don't like disturbing members discussing topics with others. I've been working on the microwave idea for a number of years. I think microwaves are more interesting because they, like the background radiation, hint to gravity-mechanics, as the background radiation would.

    The thing about your radio-wave tower idea is that you will actually, in inducing radio-waves, be projecting them as well. You can't "capture" radio waves in the way of drawing energy. You can, but it would not be efficient. With microwaves, you can absorb a lot more energy, far more than radio waves. Demonstrations can prove that you can induce more useful elecrtrical energy than heat energy with microwaves, without necessarily emitting microwave radiation after absorbing it. That's far better than radio waves. Think about it.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    That's what I thought.

    The fuses though didn't blow from the heat, they blew from a sizeable electrostatic discharge given the pyrotechnics display they exhibited in the microwave field. Always, the microwave energy was on for less than 3 seconds on a med-low level, not enough to really heat up anything, which made me think that an electrostatic phenomena was afoot, that a current large enough to cause the fuses to blow was the cause, as induced by the microwave field.

    I must admit though, I have been researching ways to most efficiently induce current in specially designed circuits in microwave fields. Is there though any interest by scientific agencies in such research iother than my own efforts?

    One of my research interests is to harness the background microwave radiation of space-time. Why? It's there, that's why. You offer a slight push to someone on a seesaw, and that's all you need to keep the swing operational. The background microwave radiation can be accessed, used, as that slight "push", so to speak, on an interfacing microwave electrical circuit, the aim being to provide "continual current", the larger the system of circuits, the more energy that can be drawn. I saw an episode on mythbusters and they tested the idea of it being possible to set up quite a resonance of vibration by tuning the resonance, as small as it would seem, to the surrounding structure. Why not then apply the same concept to accessing the background microwave radiation? All one needs to do is know how to construct the right microwave circuits to access and interface with that energy.
    Lead in fuses can create a super capacitor in a microwave emission. Lead acts like a capacitor plate to high frequency, hitting other seemingly nonconducting substances. Lead can create real lightning bolts in high frequency so be careful.

    I do not believe that microwaves are substantially different then radio waves. Originally I believe they cooked with radio waves. Later micro waves.

    The radio waves actually gave a more even, faster cooking. A friend of ours years ago in the late sixties cooked a big Turkey in 20 minutes in one of the original models. They had huge aluminum deflector wheels inside of them. That turned. You could cook in metal pans. The radio just polarized the whole pan.

    But if you look at regular AC house current and then look at AC high frequency. You will note that although the two are basically the same thing. The frantic often almost simultaneous bi-polarization effect of the high frequency makes it something to contend with and contain.

    It is definitely in the range of radio waves, and often effects radios in the area. It can cause regular household AC electricity to jump a great distance. It can block cell phones.

    I was at a compressor shop today and they had a motor that had an over heated rotor. The motor acts as if it is suffering a sort of rotor lock. And although turns, turns unevenly with a vibrating action.
    You can simulate this with a good motor and a long length of undersized AWG wire. You can actually cause rotor lock and the motor will get up and vibrate around. Even taking other equipment with it.

    The owner of the compressor shop stated that the rotor had overheated. This can cause an annealing and hardening in different areas of the rotor.

    Annealed rotor material will have less ohms then hardened rotor material.
    So as the magnetic field tries to polarize the rotor face the rotor becomes a sort of thermocouple and does not allow for an even polarizing. Causing that less then smooth turning effect. At some point the rotor actually tries to reverse for a split second. Pretty cool I thought.

    So what the heck does this have to do with microwaves?

    Well microwaves come hard and fast. So when they hit the surface of things they amplify the natural differences in hardness, oxidation, grease, resistance, that either raise ohms or lower ohms. At points on the surface and either allow the object to create an ARC to repel the microwaves from raising the whole object in voltage. This can cause the severe bi-polarization. That you experienced. The whole piece of good conducting metal cannot be polarized that quickly it conducts to well. So the corroded areas will raise in voltage quickly and you can get an arc between two different ohm surfaces, that are actually one piece of metal. That is how fast high frequency is.

    Or when something like a glass or plastic dish is put into a micro wave the surface is very quick to raise in voltage, and since the substance does not conduct amperage, the whole dish raises in voltage very quickly. Pretty much electrocuting your food to death. Ha-ha. Kind of like putting two nails in a hot dog and feeding it some current.


    Some in Washington DC in the sixties did not like the idea, that rabbles had their number, and they had no idea, that rabbles were that far advanced. They found out in a rather embarrassing way. And attacked many manufactures that were all pretty much at the same level. If only by scaring investors money away with rather obvious discontent.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  8. #7  
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    Any type of electromagnetic radiation can induce a current.

    The question is, "why would anyone want to induce an E-M current"?

    The answer is, "an E-M is useful to an application that needs an E-M current".

    Now, does anyone know what applications in technology need an E-M style current?

    I am guessing that "quantum technology systems" need an E-M current, technologies that aim to harness "quantum" of a hand-held size dimension/wavelength. I am also guessing that the ideal size for these current frequencies and wavelengths would fit best in the microwave radiation bandwidth.

    My interests are in microwave E-M electrical circuits for that reason: it is the future of energy and technology.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    Any type of electromagnetic radiation can induce a current.

    The question is, "why would anyone want to induce an E-M current"?

    The answer is, "an E-M is useful to an application that needs an E-M current".

    Now, does anyone know what applications in technology need an E-M style current?

    I am guessing that "quantum technology systems" need an E-M current, technologies that aim to harness "quantum" of a hand-held size dimension/wavelength. I am also guessing that the ideal size for these current frequencies and wavelengths would fit best in the microwave radiation bandwidth.

    My interests are in microwave E-M electrical circuits for that reason: it is the future of energy and technology.
    No way. You are going to get the most heat from lower frequency output. That seems to create the nicest sweetest even heat you can imagine. The problem is what if you get a spark within this seemingly harmless area of low frequency super heating radio waves?

    At those voltages and amperages it could blow the appliance apart or create a powerful electromagnetic pulse. Or a transmission from someone's kitchen that could be picked up by the orbiting space shuttle.

    The micro waves limit the power the manufacturers can use in their microwaves. Because you cannot easily contain high frequency like micro waves.
    The transmission range is reduced, because microwaves require more power to create then radio waves to go the same distance.

    Microwaves with similar wattage input goes much shorter distance then radio waves, light with similar input goes a much less distance then microwaves. UV of the same input wattage goes a less distance then light. X-rays less distance then UV with the same input wattage.

    X-rays are an insane weapon, it is just hard getting them to go the distance to make them a great weapon. Short range they are insanely effective.

    You can create x-rays with radio if you find the right frequency and know the target. There are tricks to breaking almost any rule of science apparently. But actually the rules are not broken, they just add in another variable.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  10. #9  
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    You haven't seen the circuits, Will.

    The circuits I have in mind are like fire-creathing dragons: they are plasmas, ionised plasmas, ionised by the micrwaves, held easily by their ionisation in a magnestic bottle, that act as a "current loop" of the least resistance you can imagine, around which an induced current can be drawn of whatever magnitude that doesn't do too much harm to the plasma.

    You gotta go with the heat, not fight it, make it your friend: use the ionised plasma as an integral part of the circuitry.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    You haven't seen the circuits, Will.

    The circuits I have in mind are like fire-creathing dragons: they are plasmas, ionised plasmas, ionised by the micrwaves, held easily by their ionisation in a magnestic bottle, that act as a "current loop" of the least resistance you can imagine, around which an induced current can be drawn of whatever magnitude that doesn't do too much harm to the plasma.

    You gotta go with the heat, not fight it, make it your friend: use the ionised plasma as an integral part of the circuitry.
    Make a ladder with neon bulbs between a junction of each step of the ladder. Feed it with AC house current. That is plasma in the neon bulb. It is a more calm experiment. You may need resistors. Note the input to output.

    When you deal with plasma, you are dealing with death, if it feeds a transformer or other induction device and you. But you can use ARC to get some great results. But there are more calm ways to get power.

    Years ago they used a calcium solution, it looked like milk, and electrode plates in a vat of this solution, with a toilet bowl float to replenish water that slowly evaporated off. This was sent to power transformers.
    With just a strong AC pulse. It would output high amperage, even though low amperage was input.

    They powered a four foot round generator with a fist sized hydraulic motor. For the AC pulse. If the power company had a problem. After the system was started you could power the 5 horse power AC motor that powered the hydraulic system, with the power generated by the vat, and transformers. There was an inverter and battery to start the system.

    Normally the power was supplied to the vats by small wires from the power company.

    We had perpetual motion when I was kid. My father said they don't want it. He said try to come up with some stupid ways to make it. So I came up with all kinds of stupid ways. They really don't want them either. They have had windmills for power for hundreds of years.

    In some towns where the primary voltage is known. Look at the size of the conductor. Then look at the number of homes it feeds. Do the math.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  12. #11 Back to the cause 
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    You must have a load to have current. By running any kind of magnetic field through a conductor you produce voltage. But current is the movement of the electrons through a load, producing heat. Ohms law is proven everyday, one such proof is your computer. Without Ohms law no electronic device would work. Ohms law states that Amps=Voltage divided by Resistance(or Reactance). If you are going to try to produce electrical power, learn what electricity is. Please read the basics on electrical theory. Also, remember that you can not create energy. When converting man made microwaves back to electricity, you can not produce more power than you put in. There will be power loss in the conversion, because you will not be able to capture all the microwave and heat emitted.
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    What you say is right, based on the circuits you have in mind.

    Let me explain.

    You said, "You must have a load to have current. By running any kind of magnetic field through a conductor you produce voltage. But current is the movement of the electrons through a load, producing heat. Ohms law is proven everyday, one such proof is your computer. Without Ohms law no electronic device would work. Ohms law states that Amps=Voltage divided by Resistance(or Reactance)."

    I agree with that. But using the ionised plasma as the current, and of course the heat, an ionised plasma held in a microwave-flux magnetic-flux bottle, that's where the current is. The energy used to create the microwave-magnetic flux bottle is created by specially designing the "form" of the plasma circuits, such that the ionised plasma produces a completely efficient induction in the surrounding closed electrical circuit, an electrical circuit which only loses heat "to" the plasma, making it efficient.

    You also said, "If you are going to try to produce electrical power, learn what electricity is. Please read the basics on electrical theory. Also, remember that you can not create energy. When converting man made microwaves back to electricity, you can not produce more power than you put in. There will be power loss in the conversion, because you will not be able to capture all the microwave and heat emitted."

    In response to that, if you are able to create an efficent circuit where an absolute minimum amount of heat is lost, only a tiny amount at that, that tiny amount can be compensated for by interfacing with the background radiation, background microwave radiation of space-time, such that you can access as much of that background radiation as you want because theoretically you cannot alter the background microwave radiation of space-time, it is the woodwork of space-time, so the more you try to use from it, it will always be there to be that supplement. As yet, no scientific team has been able to tap into and use that background microwave radiation, as small as it is. Imagine someone on a see-saw: compared to the mechanics of the swing itself, all you need to do is provide a slight nudge to keep the swinging effect going. I am thinking that the background microwave radiation can be used as that slight nudge to keep a specially designed electrical circuit running while still being able to draw off current. It's not free energy, because thi8s circuit is like an electrical fire-place: you just have to add anything that can be converted into a plasma, into an ionised plasma. Electrical combustion, basically.
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  14. #13 Re: Back to the cause 
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Moll
    You must have a load to have current. By running any kind of magnetic field through a conductor you produce voltage. But current is the movement of the electrons through a load, producing heat. Ohms law is proven everyday, one such proof is your computer. Without Ohms law no electronic device would work. Ohms law states that Amps=Voltage divided by Resistance(or Reactance). If you are going to try to produce electrical power, learn what electricity is. Please read the basics on electrical theory. Also, remember that you can not create energy. When converting man made microwaves back to electricity, you can not produce more power than you put in. There will be power loss in the conversion, because you will not be able to capture all the microwave and heat emitted.
    I wrote this program because I totally agree with ohms law. Short of capacitors, induction equipment and lengths of wire. It is a standard you use expecting standard electrical supplies, when you build equipment for industry.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Electricity/setupwir.exe

    Did you ever notice that they keep runs of wire in a shop to a certain length before putting a sub panel?

    If they did not you could get some crazy accidents. The reason is time. Just to bring a wire up to voltage takes time. Even though we as humans cannot see it, or measure the time it takes without equipment.

    We can connect a wire and disconnect a wire all day long. And funny thing is that it does not draw any current really. Heck the power is not going anywhere.

    But if you increase the length of wire enough, and put a device halfway along the way. How is that wire going to polarize all the way without drawing current through the transformer? It cannot.

    But you need a specific length of wire to create this effect. I use 500 feet to, and another 500 feet from the transformer.

    Letting the time of the draw feed the capacitor. Right as the capacitor fills, the AC cycle is reversing and you get the same effect in the other direction. Before any substantial power is drawn from the supply.

    Perpetual motion is basic elementary electrical safety. And part of all engineering decisions when working with electrical equipment.

    The primary wire on a pole in my suburban area, has to complete its entire length before it can feed each transformer it feeds. Because if it did not you would get a different wave form at the start and finish of the primary run. The transformers internal primary is last to get fed. What takes place is a timing event.

    By the time the entire primary is fed, and the power makes it through the transformers primaries. The cycle is reversing creating far less drain on the primary then if there was no timing scheme.

    Time is certainly a needed calculation in the electrical and electronics fields, ha-ha I think that is pun.

    Time you can note is not considered in the ohms law formula. This can easily be shown to break the scientific method for observing or understanding electricity in any scientific way.

    I was taught the universe is made of electricity. And time certainly played an important role.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  15. #14  
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    William, google "microwaves" on the "video" setting and you will find some interesting footage of people who have put open flames in a microwave field.
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  16. #15 Re: a question about microwaves 
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    I have a question about how microwaves can induce an electrical "current".

    Does anyone know what the correct explanation is for microwaves to induce a current in a wire.

    I have been playing around with standard electrical "fuses" and a microwaves, and when I turn the microwave energy on the fuses "blow out". Is that normal? I've heard that NASA uses microwave energy to ignite the fuel of the space-shuttle, to create an electrostatic discharge, without using any direct connection between the space shuttle and the outer microwave starting device, but what is the exact nature of the science operating there. I know microwaves heat things up, but to induce a strong current in each of my fuse experiments appears very "lucky" or maybe this is a normal phenomena?
    Microwaves are electromagnetic waves -- time and spacially varying electric and magnetic fields. They can induce currents by creating an electromotive force in two ways.

    The electric field directly results in a potential difference (voltage) between points and the charge flows accordingly. For high frequencies this can cause electrons to move back and forth in a conductor -- just like what happens with an antenna that is either receiving or transmitting.

    The magnetic field can also induce an electromotive force in a closed loop -- proportional to the rate of change of the flux linked by the loop. That also causes current to flow through any load in the loop.

    The net effect of the electric and magnetic fields on a conductive material is the generation of eddy currents, and possibly even sparking if the field intensities are high enough and the dimensions of the metal are a significant fraction of the wavelength-- which is why you should not put metallic objects in your microwave.

    The usual heating of food items in a microwave takes place by a somewhat different mechanism. The materials that you heat in a microwave are generally polar dielectrics. The microwave causes the molecules to align themselves with the applied E field and as this changes rapidly flips the molecules back and forth, dissipating energy and heating the material. Water is polar and is the material primarily responsible for the heating of food.

    If your fuse components are metallic and of appropriate size I am not surprised that you induce strong currents and sparking.
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  17. #16  
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    Yep.

    But what I am suggesting is to create a plasma in a microwave field, hold it by a magnetic bottle, and get an added kick into it by having the specs of the microwave field interface with that of the background microwave radiation.

    A plasma in a microwave field?

    http://video.google.com.au/videosear...en&emb=0&aq=f#

    http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...es&vt=lf&hl=en

    (google "microwaves" on the "video" filter)
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver
    Yep.

    But what I am suggesting is to create a plasma in a microwave field, hold it by a magnetic bottle, and get an added kick into it by having the specs of the microwave field interface with that of the background microwave radiation.

    A plasma in a microwave field?

    http://video.google.com.au/videosear...en&emb=0&aq=f#

    http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...es&vt=lf&hl=en

    (google "microwaves" on the "video" filter)

    But you can do things like that, they have had all kinds of crazy accidents and experiments. I do not see why you want to, or are concerned with making power.

    I cannot figure out how to make it safely. Making electricity free, was all taken care of 100 years ago. Now how to make it, and safely have it shut off upon over escalation is my mystery. I think it should be yours to. If you are going to be fooling around with electricity.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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    Will, science is serious stuff. No one fools around with atomic energy unless they want to be shut down. I don't propose fooling around; never have, never will. Power is held by responsible people. Common people though ideally are briefed on the power held by those in positions of authority, of responsibility.
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