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Thread: Geostationary Satellite time dilation

  1. #1 Geostationary Satellite time dilation 
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    If I am not mistaken, then a geostationary satellite is stationary relative to a spot on the earth. So if you put a clock on the satellite and one on the spot it is relatively stationary to, there won't be any time differences between the two clocks due to velocity, should there? I know there should be some due to the gravity differential, but nothing else, right?


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    Yes, there is a velocity difference. To an observer in outside the Earth & satellite system, the satellite clock has a greater linear velocity than the other clock.

    Each clock may be stationary relative to the other, but then each clock is in a rotating (and therefore accelerating) frame of reference; therefore special relativity does not apply to either clock’s reference frame.

    Special relativity only applies to non-accelerating frames of reference.


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    Special relativity only applies to non-accelerating frames of reference.
    This part I can't understand. Neither clock is moving or accelerating relative to each other and in that reference frame. So why does the relativity of each clock to other things impeach upon this closed reference frame? Can’t two objects be considered in terms of each other without anything on the outside?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Special relativity only applies to non-accelerating frames of reference.
    This part I can't understand. Neither clock is moving or accelerating relative to each other and in that reference frame. So why does the relativity of each clock to other things impeach upon this closed reference frame? Can’t two objects be considered in terms of each other without anything on the outside?
    But they are accelerating with respect to each other. Or put another way, they each accelerate differently.

    Remove the Earth and just have them circling a point in space. (if you want you can imagine them as being attached by a cord to this point.)

    If you stood on each clock, you would feel a difference in force due to this difference in acceleration. It would also take work to move an object from the outer clock to the inner clock. So even in terms of just the clocks themselves, there is a difference between them.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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  6. #5 Re: Geostationary Satellite time dilation 
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    If I am not mistaken, then a geostationary satellite is stationary relative to a spot on the earth. So if you put a clock on the satellite and one on the spot it is relatively stationary to, there won't be any time differences between the two clocks due to velocity, should there? I know there should be some due to the gravity differential, but nothing else, right?
    The change in the clock that might occur if the craft or container the clock is housed in. Is not shielded properly with a minimum of three walls of steel. And other radiation accelerators, and filters. The change in the clocks recording will take place because of the velocity through the light atmosphere around earth. It raises ambient radiation levels. Basically a voltage is created.

    As you get further away from earth the effect will dissipate.

    As far as the two clocks at two different orbit heights around the earths axis. It would be similar to a hard drive. Much more hard disk passes under the head, the further to the edge of the hard disc you go.

    Velocity tends to create voltage. Voltage tends to slow other voltage. When you fire a bullet, there is a very high voltage in front of the bullet. Not really any kinetic energy. But plenty of plasma cutting force.

    This movie shows something interesting. It shows that a round that can blow a hole through a steel plate, does not even effect the man standing on one foot.

    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/Forc...OneBullet.html


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    I think you are struggling with the same thing that led Newton to conclude there is absolute space, or a preferred frame of reference. See Newton's bucket.

    http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac...on_bucket.html

    If there were only the satellite and the earth, with no background stars or universe against which their rotation could be observed, would they still be rotating with respect to each other? If not, then would gravity pull them together? It seems the answer is that centrifugal force goes away if there are only the two bodies.

    Apparently this can all be explained by something called "frame dragging." I won't pretend to understand it.
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    Thanks guys. I must say, I still struggled to understand it, until I read this part in Harold's link:

    "But how can rotation mean anything once the notion of absolute space has been cast aside? Well the special theory of relativity still has absolutes. Absolute space-time is a feature of special relativity which, contrary to popular belief, does not claim that everything is relative. Although velocities, distances, and time intervals are relative, the theory still sits on a postulated absolute space-time."

    So it appears that an absolute space-time is still required. I am glad I asked this question.
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  9. #8 geosynchronous 
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    the satellite is put into the geosynchronous orbit. the very use of the term geosynchronous means the clock on the satellite and earth will show same time
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  10. #9 Re: geosynchronous 
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag1973
    the satellite is put into the geosynchronous orbit. the very use of the term geosynchronous means the clock on the satellite and earth will show same time
    No, geosynchronous means that the orbit is in sync with the Earth's rotation. IOW, the Satellite merely takes the same time to orbit the Earth as the Earth takes to complete one rotation. This does not mean that a clock in such an orbit would show the same time as one on the Earth.
    They would agree that the satellite returned to being above the same point on the surface at regular intervals, but they would not agree as to how long that interval was.
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    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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    Interesting topic, Kalster. I've never really thought about the relativity behind geosynchronous orbits, only the ones in non-zero inclinations.

    What math is used to work out the derivatives?
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Interesting topic, Kalster. I've never really thought about the relativity behind geosynchronous orbits, only the ones in non-zero inclinations.

    What math is used to work out the derivatives?
    Thanks. Alas, I am again found wanting when it comes to maths, but it is discussed in detail over at Hypography. See specifically the exchange between CraigD and Modest.

    http://hypography.com/forums/astrono...-travel-6.html

    Modest also provided a citation of a direct test of these prediction in; Bailey et al., “Measurements of relativistic time dilation for positive and negative muons in a circular orbit,” Nature 268 (July 28, 1977) pg 301. Bailey et al., Nuclear Physics B 150 pg 1–79 (1979), in case you have access to those articles.


    Velocity time dilation


    and gravitational time dilation

    where:
    T' = how much time passes for the observer in the gravitational field
    T = how much time passes for an observer outside the gravitational field (or an infinite distance from it)
    G = the gravitational constant = 6.67428 * 10<sup>-11</sup> m<sup>3</sup>Kg<sup>-1</sup> s<sup>-2</sup>
    M = mass of object causing gravitational field = earth kg = 5.9736 * 10<sup>24</sup>
    c = speed of light = 3 * 10<sup>8</sup> m/s
    r = distance between earth's center of mass and observer
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  13. #12  
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    Thanks Kalster!
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    No problem. :wink: I also found this site: What is the experimental basis of Special Relativity?. Pretty interesting too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    I think you are struggling with the same thing that led Newton to conclude there is absolute space, or a preferred frame of reference. See Newton's bucket.

    http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac...on_bucket.html

    If there were only the satellite and the earth, with no background stars or universe against which their rotation could be observed, would they still be rotating with respect to each other? If not, then would gravity pull them together? It seems the answer is that centrifugal force goes away if there are only the two bodies.

    Apparently this can all be explained by something called "frame dragging." I won't pretend to understand it.
    http://www.Rockwelder.com/Flash/mrbi...mrbill8x6.html

    You can see that the principle is that objects in motion can only move in a straight line unless acted upon by new energy.

    In the case of Newtons bucket the sides of the bucket become a force against the water that is trying to travel in a straight line. When the bucket gets in the way, the water pressure increases and the water level raises up.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    I think you are struggling with the same thing that led Newton to conclude there is absolute space, or a preferred frame of reference. See Newton's bucket.

    http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac...on_bucket.html

    If there were only the satellite and the earth, with no background stars or universe against which their rotation could be observed, would they still be rotating with respect to each other? If not, then would gravity pull them together? It seems the answer is that centrifugal force goes away if there are only the two bodies.

    Apparently this can all be explained by something called "frame dragging." I won't pretend to understand it.
    It is probably easier to think of the earth like a space ship. It shields us from the effects of solar space or deep space.

    The solar system shields us from effects of outer space.

    Nothing really new about this. However I suspect after reading a lot of papers that many just did not do their homework.

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    Ambient radiation is a matrix of electrons traveling simultaneously in all directions at all angles.
    In order to move through the matrix, an object has to become a diode. Or part of a diode.

    The matrix only allows for straight line movements. Without the addition of power or force. Actually a change in velocity along some angle or path.

    Earth revolves around the sun, because there is force pressing the earth to the sun. The earth wants to move in a straight line, however the constant force of gravity pushes it off its straight line path.

    Just the understanding of ambient radiation is enough to prove perpetual motion.

    Newton never denied perpetual motion. He had to admit to Satanic scholars that eventually any movement or action would be compensated for within the confines of the universe.

    This helped to hide perpetual motion from the masses. Who were told that Newton said there was an equal and opposite reaction for every action. Which is only true if you measure the effect across the galaxy. However locally you can create perpetual motion.



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    Satanic scholars?

    William, you won't listen to this I know. But really, can you possibly ever keep to the topic? EVER? Believe me when I say this;

    NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT YOUR CONSPIRACY, PSEUDO NONSENSE! NOBODY BELIEVES YOU!!

    So why keep bringing up all this every chance you get? I can't believe you are still active over here. I can't remember anywhere where you meaningfully contributed to a discussion, while not poisoning a thread with your delusions. I am seriously starting to think that you are severely disturbed and I shudder at the thought of you doing your "experiments". You are going to get people killed.
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    KALSTER, "ignore" is your friend. that way you'll never have to hear his blubbering nonsense ever again.



    just look at the increase in readability!
    when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
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    Thanks dejawolf, but in his case it is not a good thing if everyone just puts him on ignore. He really damages this site and has caused a lot of needless confusion, especially with new members. He'll just run amuck behind the scenes. Look at the physics forum and see how many times he was the last to post on a thread. He always finds it necessary to somehow twist the topic of a thread into (in his mind) having something to do with his delusions and then makes long posts full of irrelevant, conspiracist nonsense, often with photos and all.
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    Measuring any effect on the satellite's clock would be complicated by the fact that time also slows down in a gravitational field, and so the orbiting clock would tend to tick faster than a clock on the ground because it's experiencing a lot less gravity up there in orbit. I'm not sure which effect would win out in a geostationary orbit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    Measuring any effect on the satellite's clock would be complicated by the fact that time also slows down in a gravitational field, and so the orbiting clock would tend to tick faster than a clock on the ground because it's experiencing a lot less gravity up there in orbit. I'm not sure which effect would win out in a geostationary orbit.
    Yeah, there is some of both. Here is a graph done by Modest on Hypography forums for a geostationary orbit. You'll see that time dilation caused by gravity and velocity actually dilates in opposite directions, with gravitational time dilation being the most pronounced by far. The two dilations have to be added to get the total time dilation:



    The x axis is radius from centre of earth.
    The y axis is proper time added to satellite (second) per earth (equator) second from earth-equator's reference frame.
    Green is gravitational time dilation
    Blue is velocity time dilation
    Red is total time dilation
    And Brown is r=earth's radius
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Satanic scholars?

    William, you won't listen to this I know. But really, can you possibly ever keep to the topic? EVER? Believe me when I say this;

    NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT YOUR CONSPIRACY, PSEUDO NONSENSE! NOBODY BELIEVES YOU!!

    So why keep bringing up all this every chance you get? I can't believe you are still active over here. I can't remember anywhere where you meaningfully contributed to a discussion, while not poisoning a thread with your delusions. I am seriously starting to think that you are severely disturbed and I shudder at the thought of you doing your "experiments". You are going to get people killed.
    Kalster nobody cares about science period. The proof is in the number of fools that have been sold garbage as science. Do you ever read this forum? Or other forums or watch current shows on TV and education channels. Do you ever read science books.
    My proof is in the conflicting data given on different channels by different renowned scientists. And in different books from different scientists.

    You are the one with the pseudo science. You are the one with conspiracy theories. If no one believes what I say, it is their choice. However I am sure it is true. By actually living it.

    The government came out and openly said you would be educated like a fool. There is no conspiracy just the horrid results.



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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Thanks dejawolf, but in his case it is not a good thing if everyone just puts him on ignore. He really damages this site and has caused a lot of needless confusion, especially with new members. He'll just run amuck behind the scenes. Look at the physics forum and see how many times he was the last to post on a thread. He always finds it necessary to somehow twist the topic of a thread into (in his mind) having something to do with his delusions and then makes long posts full of irrelevant, conspiracist nonsense, often with photos and all.
    I am almost horrified by your deep understanding of the very sick mind. Could you tell me some more about your, I mean, my future deeds?

    You state I have delusions. How have you come to those conclusions. I have done my own very real testing. What have you yourself actually done? Other then quote obviously conflicting scientists?


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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    I am almost horrified by your deep understanding of the very sick mind.
    I agree. You have a very sick mind.
    They say 'it takes one to know one'
    I agree with that too. You must have an equally sick mind to know William McCormick’s sick mind.
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  26. #25  
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    The government came out and openly said you would be educated like a fool. There is no conspiracy just the horrid results.
    What does that have to do with me for goodness sake. I am a SOUTH AFRICAN. I am not subservient to your government. In fact, the entire world is not subservient to your government. Why do they then also not follow your nonsense brand of science? What possible reason could anyone have for not exploiting all the wonders you are advocating if it existed?

    You are the one with the pseudo science. You are the one with conspiracy theories.
    Right then William. How then is it possible that all the technology of the world is WORKING? Technology built on non-"universal" science? Why can I read about real experiments by these scientists? How can they send a space probe through the solar system while not using your brand of science?

    If no one believes what I say, it is their choice. However I am sure it is true. By actually living it.
    And that is further proof of your delusion. Why don't you invent a wondrous machine and show us all just how clever you really are? You have NEVER been able to prove or back up your wild accusations. NEVER. Not one proper citation. You don't even know who these "Universal scientists" are!

    Do you ever read science books.
    Do you? Can you even make sense of them? I seriously doubt it. Being able to build things and witnessing things does not mean you are qualified or capable of interpreting them. Just because you can blow something up does not mean you have the faintest idea of how or why it happened.

    I too am almost horrified by KALSTER’s deep understanding of William McCormick’s very sick mind.
    What do you mean?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    The government came out and openly said you would be educated like a fool. There is no conspiracy just the horrid results.
    What does that have to do with me for goodness sake. I am a SOUTH AFRICAN. I am not subservient to your government. In fact, the entire world is not subservient to your government. Why do they then also not follow your nonsense brand of science? What possible reason could anyone have for not exploiting all the wonders you are advocating if it existed?

    You are the one with the pseudo science. You are the one with conspiracy theories.
    Right then William. How then is it possible that all the technology of the world is WORKING? Technology built on non-"universal" science? Why can I read about real experiments by these scientists? How can they send a space probe through the solar system while not using your brand of science?

    If no one believes what I say, it is their choice. However I am sure it is true. By actually living it.
    And that is further proof of your delusion. Why don't you invent a wondrous machine and show us all just how clever you really are? You have NEVER been able to prove or back up your wild accusations. NEVER. Not one proper citation. You don't even know who these "Universal scientists" are!

    Do you ever read science books.
    Do you? Can you even make sense of them? I seriously doubt it. Being able to build things and witnessing things does not mean you are qualified or capable of interpreting them. Just because you can blow something up does not mean you have the faintest idea of how or why it happened.

    I too am almost horrified by KALSTER’s deep understanding of William McCormick’s very sick mind.
    What do you mean?
    You are a South African. What does that mean to the world? Really what does that mean to the average fellow?

    I know I talk to real Americans everyday. They are mean and nasty and dumb as wood.
    It means to most that you are probably stupider then dumb Americans. Or so they hope. Because if not, what I am saying to them is true.

    It does not mean that to me though. Truthfully. Because I know that those that say that you are stupid are themselves totally stupid about real science.

    Believe it or not the fact that you come from a place like South Africa might actually give you some strengths, that I can use to highlight to others what they cannot see.
    In other words you might not know much real science because you were never given the opportunity. But I bet the things you do know by actually witnessing, you know well, and will not let go of.
    Like our farmers and workers here in America. They work with real things everyday. They will put you on your butt if you try to force nonsense down their throats. They do not know much but what they know you better not mess with.

    But lets be real, if the Marines were sent to South Africa tomorrow they could tell you that the world was flat and you would have to say how flat, or take them out. Africa is a pawn for England and American interests. A slave state. Much like most of America.

    Joseph Mandello sat in a prison for how many years? And they elected him president? We have a blind governor, that got to be governor because the governor was caught in a sex scandal. And we have a senator that gets her period at least once a month.
    I am not battling you or belittling you in any way shape or form. Our respective governments have done a great job on all of us.

    I am just stating in fast procession horrid facts that may just add up to what I am trying to put across. We have no leaders. We have no science.

    You cannot have war and science in the same time period. It is a scientific impossibility. This is so true that most will not respond to this total proof. It is just too sad for them to face. So science slips another notch and then another. Until you have a field of science that is impossible. The science of warfare. There is no such thing. You might have the wheel of warfare. The horse track of warfare. The casino of warfare. But never the science of warfare.

    In actuality whether it seems that I am losing this debate or wining it. What I just stated about warfare is an absolute. The English told George Washington and Benjamin Franklin they could not have science. So they went to war.

    Joseph Mandello sided with America after he was elected. He would not have been in prison if England and America were not running a counterintelligence scam against science in the first place. America and England are playing good country bad country on Africa.

    On a positive note South Africa does have those cool wooden masks and carvings. We have Burger King and heart attacks.

    South Africa does not need more multi subatomic particle, science, they need courage and real Benjamin Franklin science. Then they could send the Marines packing if the Marines break American doctrine and leave American soil. Or send the English packing if they break every rule of their history.

    Americans also need more Benjamin Franklin science.

    The technology of the world has been working since the basics were taught exactly as I have expressed them to you. Over one hundred years we have had awesome technology. There was just no place to get it produced for the masses. It was attacked and destroyed. It almost always causes a power struggle. As individuals see the truly intelligent are not in leadership roles.

    GM's technology for early cars and electrical systems come from Benjamin Franklin's technology. ARC rods were created by Benjamin Franklin hundreds of years ago. Most do not understand them today.


    I have posted hundreds of proofs. However you need guts to really put yourself into that time period and figure out what it meant at that time. In many cases it is like watching your own death, as a first world citizen take place, a hundred years ago.




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    William McCormick
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    I am almost horrified by your deep understanding of the very sick mind.
    I agree. You have a very sick mind.

    I was being a bit facetious. I was attempting to state that he had intertwined a bit to deeply into the sick mind.

    I was going to say something facetious to you too. But after writing that last post.

    I realized that another ten years have slipped away. And a very real message is still little understood. About science and warfare never existing at the same time.

    War is the dark ages.

    Often scientists distance themselves from warfare. So they do not really think about its mechanisms. A really good scientist should have warfare all categorized and understood. So that he is not stymied by it, or questions or confrontations about it.

    If there was such a thing as the science of warfare. Then A General like Norman Shwartzkuph would have to figure out how many American Marines would die in the coming battle. Then look at what we were getting for those dead Americans. For some country called Kweatey or something. A country getting in on the oil shortage scam.

    Then Norman would have to calculate all that could go wrong, and that could be the total destruction of the earth. And then decide if sending Americans to die is worth helping a country that could careless about us.

    There is no science in warfare.




    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    I am almost horrified by your deep understanding of the very sick mind.
    I agree. You have a very sick mind.
    They say 'it takes one to know one'
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    I know I talk to real Americans everyday. They are mean and nasty and dumb as wood.
    It means to most that you are probably stupider then dumb Americans. Or so they hope. Because if not, what I am saying to them is true.
    And what are you saying to them William?
    It does not mean that to me though. Truthfully. Because I know that those that say that you are stupid are themselves totally stupid about real science.
    How does that follow? You are not making sense.
    Believe it or not the fact that you come from a place like South Africa might actually give you some strengths, that I can use to highlight to others what they cannot see.
    Explain please.
    In other words you might not know much real science because you were never given the opportunity.
    We have pretty good schools over here William.
    But I bet the things you do know by actually witnessing, you know well, and will not let go of.
    Like our farmers and workers here in America. They work with real things everyday. They will put you on your butt if you try to force nonsense down their throats. They do not know much but what they know you better not mess with.
    Are you belittling your own farmers and then equating me to your erected strawmen?
    But lets be real, if the Marines were sent to South Africa tomorrow they could tell you that the world was flat and you would have to say how flat, or take them out. Africa is a pawn for England and American interests. A slave state. Much like most of America.
    Says who? You have no idea what you are talking about.
    Joseph Mandello sat in a prison for how many years?
    Who is Joseph Mandello? At least get the name right! His name is Nelson Mandela and he was in prison for 27 years.
    And they elected him president?
    Yes, and thank goodness for that! He is the very definition of a hero and is revered the world over. Our corrupt racist government had oppressed his people for many generations and are the very people that put him in prison. This country could VERY easily have descended into civil war and he, most of all, stopped that from happening by being the remarkable man he is. Are you implying he deserved to be sent to prison? You have really shown your true colours here my friend. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
    We have a blind governor, that got to be governor because the governor was caught in a sex scandal. And we have a senator that gets her period at least once a month.
    So? What is wrong with a blind or a female senator? Are you sexist too?
    I am not battling you or belittling you in any way shape or form. Our respective governments have done a great job on all of us.
    Have they now. I decide what I want to believe, not my government.
    I am just stating in fast procession horrid facts that may just add up to what I am trying to put across. We have no leaders. We have no science.
    Again, no idea what you are talking about. By the way, science includes disciplines like Biology, Anthropology, Geology, etc. Are you saying the cure for Polio is a lie? The geological record? Fossils?
    You cannot have war and science in the same time period. It is a scientific impossibility.
    A very large proportion of current technology was first developed for or by the military. Didn't you know this?
    This is so true that most will not respond to this total proof.
    WHAT PROOF?
    It is just too sad for them to face. So science slips another notch and then another. Until you have a field of science that is impossible. The science of warfare. There is no such thing. You might have the wheel of warfare. The horse track of warfare. The casino of warfare. But never the science of warfare.
    Utter bollocks.
    In actuality whether it seems that I am losing this debate or wining it.
    Believe me, nobody reading this thinks you are winning…
    What I just stated about warfare is an absolute. The English told George Washington and Benjamin Franklin they could not have science. So they went to war.
    CITATION?
    Joseph Mandello sided with America after he was elected. He would not have been in prison if England and America were not running a counterintelligence scam against science in the first place. America and England are playing good country bad country on Africa.
    You really don't have the faintest idea do you!? Have you ever heard of APARTHEID?
    On a positive note South Africa does have those cool wooden masks and carvings. We have Burger King and heart attacks.
    What do you think South Africa is? You think about South Africa and you see masks and carvings? We are the largest economy in Africa. Take a look please: South Africa
    South Africa does not need more multi subatomic particle, science, they need courage and real Benjamin Franklin science. Then they could send the Marines packing if the Marines break American doctrine and leave American soil. Or send the English packing if they break every rule of their history.
    Why would they come here? We built a Nuclear Bomb back in the '80s with multi-subatomic particle science. I'm afraid it is too late for us....
    Americans also need more Benjamin Franklin science.
    Really? 200 year old science?
    The technology of the world has been working since the basics were taught exactly as I have expressed them to you. Over one hundred years we have had awesome technology. There was just no place to get it produced for the masses. It was attacked and destroyed.
    Nothing but hot air. Normal people want proof, William.
    It almost always causes a power struggle. As individuals see the truly intelligent are not in leadership roles.
    People like you, you mean?
    GM's technology for early cars and electrical systems come from Benjamin Franklin's technology. ARC rods were created by Benjamin Franklin hundreds of years ago. Most do not understand them today.
    What about Ford and Mercedes Benz?
    I have posted hundreds of proofs.
    You have posted nothing but empty conjecture and fantasy.
    However you need guts to really put yourself into that time period and figure out what it meant at that time. In many cases it is like watching your own death, as a first world citizen take place, a hundred years ago.
    Ok then.
    Sincerely,
    William McCormick
    If you really are sincere, you are quite mad.

    Seriously William, you have shown without a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of the nonsense that you come up with are either made-up on the spot or based on your limited preconceptions. You have evidently not bothered to try and learn about South Africa before you posted this garbage. Did you really think it would go unnoticed? Or worse, do you really believe all of this? Please, make an effort and THINK for a second. What has happened to you that makes you shelter yourself inside this make-believe world? I am pretty sure that I’ve typed all of this for nothing and that you will reply with another longwinded retort about the Universal Scientists, Benjamin Franklin, Roy Grumman, Ambient Radiation, Perpetual motion, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    I know I talk to real Americans everyday. They are mean and nasty and dumb as wood.
    It means to most that you are probably stupider then dumb Americans. Or so they hope. Because if not, what I am saying to them is true.
    And what are you saying to them William?
    It does not mean that to me though. Truthfully. Because I know that those that say that you are stupid are themselves totally stupid about real science.
    How does that follow? You are not making sense.
    Believe it or not the fact that you come from a place like South Africa might actually give you some strengths, that I can use to highlight to others what they cannot see.
    Explain please.
    In other words you might not know much real science because you were never given the opportunity.
    We have pretty good schools over here William.
    But I bet the things you do know by actually witnessing, you know well, and will not let go of.
    Like our farmers and workers here in America. They work with real things everyday. They will put you on your butt if you try to force nonsense down their throats. They do not know much but what they know you better not mess with.
    Are you belittling your own farmers and then equating me to your erected strawmen?
    But lets be real, if the Marines were sent to South Africa tomorrow they could tell you that the world was flat and you would have to say how flat, or take them out. Africa is a pawn for England and American interests. A slave state. Much like most of America.
    Says who? You have no idea what you are talking about.
    Joseph Mandello sat in a prison for how many years?
    Who is Joseph Mandello? At least get the name right! His name is Nelson Mandela and he was in prison for 27 years.
    And they elected him president?
    Yes, and thank goodness for that! He is the very definition of a hero and is revered the world over. Our corrupt racist government had oppressed his people for many generations and are the very people that put him in prison. This country could VERY easily have descended into civil war and he, most of all, stopped that from happening by being the remarkable man he is. Are you implying he deserved to be sent to prison? You have really shown your true colours here my friend. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
    We have a blind governor, that got to be governor because the governor was caught in a sex scandal. And we have a senator that gets her period at least once a month.
    So? What is wrong with a blind or a female senator? Are you sexist too?
    I am not battling you or belittling you in any way shape or form. Our respective governments have done a great job on all of us.
    Have they now. I decide what I want to believe, not my government.
    I am just stating in fast procession horrid facts that may just add up to what I am trying to put across. We have no leaders. We have no science.
    Again, no idea what you are talking about. By the way, science includes disciplines like Biology, Anthropology, Geology, etc. Are you saying the cure for Polio is a lie? The geological record? Fossils?
    You cannot have war and science in the same time period. It is a scientific impossibility.
    A very large proportion of current technology was first developed for or by the military. Didn't you know this?
    This is so true that most will not respond to this total proof.
    WHAT PROOF?
    It is just too sad for them to face. So science slips another notch and then another. Until you have a field of science that is impossible. The science of warfare. There is no such thing. You might have the wheel of warfare. The horse track of warfare. The casino of warfare. But never the science of warfare.
    Utter bollocks.
    In actuality whether it seems that I am losing this debate or wining it.
    Believe me, nobody reading this thinks you are winning…
    What I just stated about warfare is an absolute. The English told George Washington and Benjamin Franklin they could not have science. So they went to war.
    CITATION?
    Joseph Mandello sided with America after he was elected. He would not have been in prison if England and America were not running a counterintelligence scam against science in the first place. America and England are playing good country bad country on Africa.
    You really don't have the faintest idea do you!? Have you ever heard of APARTHEID?
    On a positive note South Africa does have those cool wooden masks and carvings. We have Burger King and heart attacks.
    What do you think South Africa is? You think about South Africa and you see masks and carvings? We are the largest economy in Africa. Take a look please: South Africa
    South Africa does not need more multi subatomic particle, science, they need courage and real Benjamin Franklin science. Then they could send the Marines packing if the Marines break American doctrine and leave American soil. Or send the English packing if they break every rule of their history.
    Why would they come here? We built a Nuclear Bomb back in the '80s with multi-subatomic particle science. I'm afraid it is too late for us....
    Americans also need more Benjamin Franklin science.
    Really? 200 year old science?
    The technology of the world has been working since the basics were taught exactly as I have expressed them to you. Over one hundred years we have had awesome technology. There was just no place to get it produced for the masses. It was attacked and destroyed.
    Nothing but hot air. Normal people want proof, William.
    It almost always causes a power struggle. As individuals see the truly intelligent are not in leadership roles.
    People like you, you mean?
    GM's technology for early cars and electrical systems come from Benjamin Franklin's technology. ARC rods were created by Benjamin Franklin hundreds of years ago. Most do not understand them today.
    What about Ford and Mercedes Benz?
    I have posted hundreds of proofs.
    You have posted nothing but empty conjecture and fantasy.
    However you need guts to really put yourself into that time period and figure out what it meant at that time. In many cases it is like watching your own death, as a first world citizen take place, a hundred years ago.
    Ok then.
    Sincerely,
    William McCormick
    If you really are sincere, you are quite mad.

    Seriously William, you have shown without a shadow of a doubt that the vast majority of the nonsense that you come up with are either made-up on the spot or based on your limited preconceptions. You have evidently not bothered to try and learn about South Africa before you posted this garbage. Did you really think it would go unnoticed? Or worse, do you really believe all of this? Please, make an effort and THINK for a second. What has happened to you that makes you shelter yourself inside this make-believe world? I am pretty sure that I’ve typed all of this for nothing and that you will reply with another longwinded retort about the Universal Scientists, Benjamin Franklin, Roy Grumman, Ambient Radiation, Perpetual motion, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

    Kalaster we got off on a bad foot. That is an American saying meaning that something was misunderstood when we met.

    I did not know you were from South Africa.

    America is doing something very, very wrong with their responsibility to education, and George Washington.

    I do not believe that you would be so pessimistic as to doubt nations like America and England. Known as heads in education and technology dissemination. Often setting standards for the world. Without at least a group of experts that highlighted many problems.

    Why would you be? I mean really why would you doubt them. You may have heard some things about current science, chemistry and biology that perhaps you felt were not totally accurate.

    But I am sure, you being a sound and sincere fellow you could not have attacked American education on a whole. Heck you figured if there was something wrong they were trying harder to fix it then anyone else.

    Then I come along. And I just blurt out some things that to me are total proof of a total collapse of science in America and subsequently earth. We argue we trade a few low blows.

    Now we can as friends either prove or disprove my beliefs delusions if you must, or uncover a world wide epidemic of ignorance, or pay respect to a world with perfect science.

    I am very sincere when I say that as a young fellow I sat in horror as Senators and Congressmen each got up and stated that education of the atom would be withheld from minorities, because of their violent aggression in inner cities. The only way to do it was to keep it a secret from all.

    I watched in horror as they awarded the magnetic donut people big bucks to accelerate matter in a circle rather then in a straight line. In what they claimed would be a perfect vacuum inside the donut. Yet in outer space there is not a perfect vacuum.

    So although I feel that you have been subjected to counterintelligence, I do not feel that you are now a controlled zombie or a fool in anyway. As long as you are strong enough to at least examine what I am saying. And offer sound explanations, of current science, to denounce what I am saying.

    I will be honest no one has offered a reasonable explanation yet.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  32. #31  
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    Moderator WarningWilliam, shut up, or be shut up.
    You have a choice.
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick
    I am almost horrified by your deep understanding of the very sick mind.
    I agree. You have a very sick mind.
    They say 'it takes one to know one'
    I agree with that too. You must have an equally sick mind to know William McCormick’s sick mind.
    'Clutching at straws' again Jane?

    Sorry Kalster - off topic!

    I found this, is this any use to your question?

    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15033922
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  34. #33  
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    Thanks Absum. :wink:
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Satanic scholars?

    William, you won't listen to this I know. But really, can you possibly ever keep to the topic? EVER? Believe me when I say this;

    NOBODY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT YOUR CONSPIRACY, PSEUDO NONSENSE! NOBODY BELIEVES YOU!!

    So why keep bringing up all this every chance you get? I can't believe you are still active over here. I can't remember anywhere where you meaningfully contributed to a discussion, while not poisoning a thread with your delusions. I am seriously starting to think that you are severely disturbed and I shudder at the thought of you doing your "experiments". You are going to get people killed.
    I was trying to highlight that Newton never said there was not perpetual motion.

    However others tried to misuse or misplace his rather awesome and hard won understanding of the universe. Newton was pretty cool. Considering the time he lived, he was amazing.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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