Notices
Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: The apogee of entropy

  1. #1 The apogee of entropy 
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the circuitous haze of my mind
    Posts
    1,028
    Is there a limit to how much entropy can occur in a closed system?

    We know that heat is turned into infrared radiation constantly, which prevents the earth form overheating. The question though is, how cool could entropy bring an object if nothing interfered?

    If you took a piece of metal at room temperature, suspended it in a vacuum, and used a one way light shield that would only allow light out, but not in, would the object eventually reach absolute zero, or only the temperature of its nearest surroundings?

    I believe this would defy the laws of thermodynamics for a reason if it would reach absolute zero, but if that would not happen, I do not see why this experiment could not be done eventually.


    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Junior Zitterbewegung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    217
    If you took a piece of metal at room temperature, suspended it in a vacuum, and used a one way light shield that would only allow light out, but not in, would the object eventually reach absolute zero, or only the temperature of its nearest surroundings?
    Sounds like a modified Maxwell's Demon to me. Eventually you reach equilibrium as for practical reasons there is no such thing as an isolated system, let alone a "one-way-gate" for thermal radiation that in the end does not in one way or the other will interact with the "hotter" side of the isolated system.


    I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the circuitous haze of my mind
    Posts
    1,028
    They did in fact make a one way gate for massive particles, but not for electromagnetic radiation. This is only under the assumption that it is possible to do the same for EMR. Essentially the particle version somewhat reverses entropy and allows the particles to condense rather than to spread out. This creates a vacuum on one end.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Junior Zitterbewegung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    They did in fact make a one way gate for massive particles, but not for electromagnetic radiation. This is only under the assumption that it is possible to do the same for EMR. Essentially the particle version somewhat reverses entropy and allows the particles to condense rather than to spread out. This creates a vacuum on one end.
    Yes, for parts of systems the entropy can in fact decrease, otherwise there would be no crystals. And if you decrease the entropy in a system you have to expend energy (=heat) someplace else thus in fact increasing the entropy of the universe by that. There is no such thing as a free lunch, remember.
    And if you block the EMR one way there is interaction between the shield and the EMR and then the shild itself gets hotter so the system will heat up. No matter how you slice and dice it, Maxwell's Demon was based in fact on several assumptions that do not hold.
    I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •