# I am just a NUMBER and so ARE YOU!

• June 17th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Theoryofrelativity
I am just a NUMBER and so ARE YOU!
Is it possible that.......

The only thing that is real is maths, and that we are not real as we perceive ourselves to be, but instead we are complex mathematical equations so complex we believe (or have acheived) form, expression, growth, death. We are numbers which have evolved to make this possible. The maths can be seen in the fractal composition of all things.

http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/2005-06/v18n2/04.shtml

"One of the intriguing things about mathematics', says Professor Chapman, 'is the way in which equations that model one type of thing can often be adapted to model another. For example, it's the equations used by engineers to model the stresses and strains in buildings that are providing the springboard for some of my biological work on modelling human tissue.' Maini agrees: 'The power of mathematics is that similar mathematical equations can be applied to very, very different areas.'

http://www.math.com/students/wonders/life/life.html

The game called 'life' check the source link above and then read this:

"What is Life (the game) Good For?
Studying the patterns of Life can result in discoveries in other areas of math and science.

The behavior of cells or animals can be better understood using simple rules. Behavior that seems intelligent, such as we see in ant colonies might just be simple rules that we don't understand yet. Take a look at this simulation of termites piling up woodchips. (click here) There are only 2 rules in this system, and yet, a seemingly "intelligent" pattern emerges. What does this say about the nature of intelligence?

Traffic problems might be solved by analyzing them with the mathematical tools learned from these types of simulations. (Unjamming Traffic with Computers)

Computer viruses are also examples of cellular automata. Finding the cure for computer viruses could be hidden in the patterns of this simple game.

Human diseases might be cured if we could better understand why cells live and die.

Exploring the galaxies would be easier if machines could be invented that could build themselves. Imagine sending a probe to Mars that could build a copy of itself. Although this is theoretically possible, it hasn't been invented yet!"

http://www.primidi.com/2005/02/21.html

"In "Life on the Scales," Science News recently wrote that some simple mathematical equations, known as quarter-power scaling laws, can explain the metabolic rates of living organisms. For example, "an animal's metabolic rate appears to be proportional to mass to the 3/4 power." And this "3/4-power law appears to hold sway from microbes to whales, creatures of sizes ranging over a mind-boggling 21 orders of magnitude." The ecologists, physicists and chemists behind this research are now successfully applying this equation to plants, fish, full ecosystems and even biology and genetics, by adding a new key parameter: temperature."
• June 17th, 2008, 07:28 PM
Cold Fusion
I believe that philosophy is nothing but discrete math; the same goes for us.

I argued for this a while ago and was attacked because of it; though more and more proof is coming forth proving that we are purely mathematical in every way. I just watched a show on The Science Channel called "equations for a perfect life"; and of course, they showed that you can use math for every facet of you life. They even had 5 "nerds" use math to determine the chances of getting a certain girl's number....and it turned out that the math held true in the end.
• June 18th, 2008, 01:21 AM
marnixR
on the other hand, can the universe be explained in purely mathematical terms ? or we just perceiving the issues that we can treat in a mathematical fashion ?

in short, the old "to someone with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" conundrum
• June 18th, 2008, 03:55 AM
Pong
Navigator beware! Here there be Kabbalists.

Meh... one can run with an insight, seeing "it" in everything. Finally, there is some truth but not The Truth.

• June 18th, 2008, 06:26 AM
dejawolf
the pythagoreans certainly seemed to think something along those lines.
or wait, they worshipped geometry.
• June 18th, 2008, 12:41 PM
Theoryofrelativity
Very interesting replies chaps, meanwhile

a long time ago I had a particular experience

I was able to read the future in everything

wall paper, carpet, leaves (tree leaves not tea leaves) and so on, I could see a pattern that was readable and I understood it.

It was not something that lasted, and not something I can explain now, but I do recall at the time thinking it perfectly logical and sensible. I could see it and it all made sense.

Is it possible for some reason my brain chemistry altered (no drugs were involved) so that I saw the mathematical properties of things and in doing so could see (via those properties) what the likely outcome was in any given circumstance.

The way math evolves predictably so perhaps do we and circumstance?

Is it possible that through maths we can indeed predict the future, if we can find out what the 'math' is for every identifiable thing.

I wrote something similar on this before 'fractal memory'.

Common chaps, get those out of the box thinking caps on.

Meanwhile if we are just 'numbers'

what would happen if we altered something basic, like the numerical equation that determines our 'vibration'. What if we were to raise it...would we appear to disappear?
• June 20th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Pikkhaud
I just wanna say that if i were a number I`d be 69
• June 27th, 2008, 06:36 PM
SolomonGrundy
Divide yourshelf to 0 and then you will see the future agian .
We are more the numbers , yes all is done mathematicaly even our body ,but not by the math that you all know.
• June 28th, 2008, 06:03 PM
Misonix
• June 28th, 2008, 06:47 PM
organic god
Quote:

Is it possible that through maths we can indeed predict the future, if we can find out what the 'math' is for every identifiable thing.
I would say possible, but not feasible. there would be an infinite number of identifiable things to work out and when you involve infinity things can get a bit naughty.

also quantum physics would shove its nose in and screw everything up.
• July 5th, 2008, 03:32 AM
Dlrow
Even if one did find out the mathamatical structure for every identifiable thing in this moment we would not be able to identify it as correct until it actually exists anyway.. All we would have is a number before the thing in question has actually come into being so what use is this?

Besides how can we know the absolute 'math' to every aspect of anything?

Somethings are changing so rapidly no machine or interlect could figure every possible calculation and answer to it... To calculate every angle of the wind's motion, all its contents and its effects on the earth and earths matter is a stupidly large and pointless task using numbers.. These numbers mean nothing to the average being even if you did manage to write them all down or store them in anyway.

We are all numbers yes. But this should be more specifically put as - We could all be looked at as numbers.

The matrix is cool an all, but geeze, i hope there is more to life than a bunch of digits flying around in front of my face.
• July 5th, 2008, 11:28 AM
Theoryofrelativity
I believe that the human brain is capable of (subconsciously) having an awareness of the maths of all things, which might explain why some people can indeed 'see' the future.

The vision they have may merely be the end result of lots of complex comuputations by the brain.

Afterall, walking is immensley complex and it takes a super computer several thousand attempts to figure out how any living thing moves effectively and calculate what it needs to do in order to move without falling etc, yet we do it without much conscious effort and yet there is a great deal of behind the scenes computation taking place.
• July 5th, 2008, 04:50 PM
Pong
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
walking ...takes a super computer

I've thought the same. Pour a glassfull of water and carry it across a room - frickin' incredible. Yet our "idiots" learn it and master it.

So why can't that computational power drive abstract cognitions? It seems the brain's a dedicated physics engine that only handles other functions in a roundabout, cludgy sort of way. What we call intelligence is how succinctly that engine applies to tasks unsuited it. Intelligence is a translator.
• July 5th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Theoryofrelativity
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
walking ...takes a super computer

I've thought the same. Pour a glassfull of water and carry it across a room - frickin' incredible. Yet our "idiots" learn it and master it.

So why can't that computational power drive abstract cognitions? It seems the brain's a dedicated physics engine that only handles other functions in a roundabout, cludgy sort of way. What we call intelligence is how succinctly that engine applies to tasks unsuited it. Intelligence is a translator.

May be we can do it, but we have not yet tried.

We see people walking, so we mirror it.

We don't see people trying to read the fabric of the universe, and predict it's next composition.
• July 5th, 2008, 10:34 PM
Pong
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
May be we can do it, but we have not yet tried.

We see people walking, so we mirror it.

We don't see people trying to read the fabric of the universe, and predict it's next composition.

Ooh. Stopped me dumb a minute. Gotta simmer this. :)
• July 6th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Theoryofrelativity
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
May be we can do it, but we have not yet tried.

We see people walking, so we mirror it.

We don't see people trying to read the fabric of the universe, and predict it's next composition.

Ooh. Stopped me dumb a minute. Gotta simmer this. :)

cool :)

I shall have a go at staring at the wall, see if I can learn something about it that isn't immediately obvious.

Meanwhile as a kid I got all my comic sketch inspiration from blank pieces of paper. I would stare at the paper until I saw little cartoon characters appear out of the shadows, then I would trace them. It was very weird as clearly my imagination created the images but for some reason I was only aware of the images when I looked at the paper as oppose to first being aware of the images inside my head.

So it was like seeing something 'extra' as oppose to me dreaming up these characters myself.

I think kids do see the world in very different ways to adults, maybe we lose something ( an ability of sorts) the more tuned in we become to what we are required to observe and what to neglect re survival etc?
• July 6th, 2008, 05:14 AM
Dlrow
And how exactly do you want to see the fabric of the universe?

A little reminder.. We only have 5 senses which are quite limited to our survival needs - not to perceiving the true fabrics of the universe (whatever that is)..

Everything our brain encounters is an interpretation of the 5 senses and physical body as a whole.

Where do you plan on starting this insight into the fabric of the universe?

• July 6th, 2008, 05:22 AM
Theoryofrelativity
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dlrow
And how exactly do you want to see the fabric of the universe?

A little reminder.. We only have 5 senses which are quite limited to our survival needs - not to perceiving the true fabrics of the universe (whatever that is)..

Everything our brain encounters is an interpretation of the 5 senses and physical body as a whole.

Where do you plan on starting this insight into the fabric of the universe?

I know this

Did you read the post about how a super computer cannot do what the brain can do in terms of figuring out how we should walk?

The brain is a master mathematician and maths is within us all, even bee's can do maths! Check out their very perfect hexagon honey combs, maths in action. This type of maths happens subconciously, so the trick will be to somehow make it conscious.
• July 6th, 2008, 05:38 AM
Dlrow
Defination of Mathematics - ''A science (or group of related sciences) dealing with the logic of quantity and shape and arrangement''

Hmm.

It appears that this is correct. I was refeering to mathematics as a lanuage of numbers to understand the structure of things. They never actually defined the word mathematics the whole time i was in school.

So it is as above..

Bees do use maths in this defination. So we are always using this word 'maths', i am constantly in reality - making new structures and changing old ones..

But it is the process we use to understand.. According to this defination of mathematics we are always doing math.

But still, its great to understand things in numbers but for the average human being this is pointless, people want to live their lives in love, experiencing the great pleasures of the senses as they are, to dream of achieving enlightenment through great experience of reality.

Not through numbers, which are the way we go about recording maths and expressing math.
• July 6th, 2008, 05:47 AM
Theoryofrelativity
Yes but this the philo forum, so this type of discussion is valid and of course interesting to those who are interested.

I am not recommending a way of life, just exploring this fascinating aspect of it.

And if somehow we can use this knowledge to make our lives better, by accurately predicting the outcome of events based on the maths the events have followed thus far then great!
• July 6th, 2008, 06:30 AM
GrowlingDog
If we look at computers, they run on a 0 and 1 principle and i dont think we are any different. In the end, it all comes down to yes or no. Should i turn left yes or no. Should i eat this, yes or no.

What sets us apart from any other species and PC program is that the smart ones amongst us ask why. Why do i believe in God? Why do i want to have sex? Why do i feel angry/excited/jealous and so on. No computer or any other species but man asks WHY. When we work out why it is just us that ask why, maybe we will understand a lot more about ourselves.
• July 6th, 2008, 07:05 AM
Theoryofrelativity
Hmmmmmmmmm

'why'

Maybe 'why' is the God factor?

We are designed to ask 'why' in order to 'KNOW' our designer who otherwise would never be known to us?
• July 6th, 2008, 02:55 PM
Pong
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
The brain is a master mathematician and maths is within us all, even bee's can do maths! Check out their very perfect hexagon honey combs, maths in action. This type of maths happens subconciously, so the trick will be to somehow make it conscious.

It is nice to grasp a thing consciously, but perhaps we'd just as well unconsciously. Math or "fabric" as music for example. Sometimes the bee just has a clumsy time on the honeycomb. The bee isn't groovin' with the hive. Wouldn't it be sweet if all bees shared a kind of synchronicity so they'd "just happen to" find themselves in the right places at the right times? I think it probable.

Time is not generally regarded a sense, I don't know why. We act on it, yet we're locked to it. And we manifest it, voluntarily or not, so we're also part of the ...cosmic groove. :)

Mojo is more than coincidence. Gears don't mesh by coincidence.
• July 6th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Theoryofrelativity
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pong
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
The brain is a master mathematician and maths is within us all, even bee's can do maths! Check out their very perfect hexagon honey combs, maths in action. This type of maths happens subconciously, so the trick will be to somehow make it conscious.

It is nice to grasp a thing consciously, but perhaps we'd just as well unconsciously. Math or "fabric" as music for example. Sometimes the bee just has a clumsy time on the honeycomb. The bee isn't groovin' with the hive. Wouldn't it be sweet if all bees shared a kind of synchronicity so they'd "just happen to" find themselves in the right places at the right times? I think it probable.

Time is not generally regarded a sense, I don't know why. We act on it, yet we're locked to it. And we manifest it, voluntarily or not, so we're also part of the ...cosmic groove. :)

Mojo is more than coincidence. Gears don't mesh by coincidence.

Bees do work to music, they HUM incessantly!
• July 15th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Steiner101
Philip Ball - Critical mass

read it, its a great book about how maths/physics can be applied to society and human behaviour.
• July 15th, 2008, 09:42 AM
Quantime
I'm a number; 1/0.
• July 16th, 2008, 07:18 AM
Theoryofrelativity
Quote:

Originally Posted by harvestein
Philip Ball - Critical mass

read it, its a great book about how maths/physics can be applied to society and human behaviour.

I shall look that up thanks