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Thread: A challenge to prove me wrong.

  1. #1 A challenge to prove me wrong. 
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    About 2 days ago I wrote a small passage about a theory of mine. It is hard to believe but no one has been able to doubt it. I'm Just wanting some fresh eyes on this and see if anyone can come up with something new.

    sorry for the format, its just copied from a word document.

    What you are about to read is a theory that you won’t read anywhere else. It comes down to show without a reasonable doubt people, the universe, or even time doesn’t exist. I will reveal this to you in the same way that I discovered it. That is by first giving what is considered proof that time can not happen.
    It comes down to two simple facts, you can not create something out of nothing. And time can not go forever in the past. I think we all can agree that if you have nothing you will only continue to have nothing. Nothing is also the absence of time, but to put it in a way humans can comprehend imagine a vacuum of space with nothing in it, what would happen to that in a hundred years? What would happen to it in a million? The answer is nothing, nothing cannot make something.
    When I say time can not go forever in the past I mean what is a common argument for religion and all scientific theories that try and explain the beginning of the universe. That is just the simple question “what happened before that?” If you wanted to continue, that could keep it going infinitely, if there is something (the big band, god, ECT…) then there has to be something before that. There would be no end to the question unless you start with nothing. And we know you can’t start with nothing. Understand? There is always going to be something before that as long as we have time. So if there is always something before that moment then the present can not happen. Because those past moments hasn’t happened. The past moments haven’t happened because time before them hasn’t happened.
    There is no theory or religion that can get around this paradox, the big bang and god are both are demolished by the fact that time can not go back forever. Every explanation is debunked with these simple facts, all but one explanation. That is we don’t exist and we are only a figment of something’s imagination. We are living in a dream world.
    This may sound like nonsense but in my studies I have found great reason to believe this. The most amazing thing is how close this life or illusion is to out dreams. Not surprisingly I have also found that when you try and tell people that they do not exist they go in a state of denial and refuse to listen to anything that is said, if you say you have proof of there nonexistent they don’t bother to even ask about it. That is also one similarity to a dream. I spent close to a year practicing lucid dreams to test this, and it was well worth it. Lucid dreaming is during a dream you become aware that you are dreaming, allowing you do act as you would. During one of my lucid dreams I found myself with a small group of people, I began to explain to them what was going on. I began to tell them that they wasn’t real, that they were in my head. They acted the very same way that people act in this world. They denied every bit of it, it was frightening to see no difference what so ever.
    I hear many arguments against this entire topic, it is easy to see as long as you keep an open mind, however most people don’t. Some of there better defenses I hear include questions such as

    How can someone be dreaming for so many years?

    The answer: In a dream time is distorted, the years you think you have lived may only have been a few minutes or even seconds for the dreamer.

    Doesn’t your theory also debunk its self, wouldn’t the paradox mean there can’t be a dreamer.

    The answer: No, dreams never makes since. Because we are in the dream things will not make since. Like not being able to make since of our universe. But in the dreamers world things would make since, understanding things like how they got there would be simple.

    If I am a dream where do my memories come from?

    The answer: There illusions, you only think you have past memories.

    I would love to hear some questions or comments on this, at entehrend@yahoo.com


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  3. #2 Re: A challenge to prove me wrong. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by entehrend
    It comes down to two simple facts, you can not create something out of nothing. And time can not go forever in the past.
    Yes it comes down to those "facts". Note the quotation marks.


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  4. #3 Re: A challenge to prove me wrong. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by entehrend
    It comes down to two simple facts, you can not create something out of nothing. And time can not go forever in the past.
    Yes it comes down to those "facts". Note the quotation marks.
    Agreed, where's the evidence to prove said "facts".

    "You can not create something out of nothing."

    "Time can not go forever in the past."

    The problem here is he is failing to accept the fact that he does, exist. If you deny the fact that you exist, it's easy to make the claim that you can not create something out of nothing. Deductive reasons would argue that since I have a computer before me, there is something. Since there is something, it came from somewhere. Which would mean there has always been something. If we were to assume we started with nothing, and went with the above "fact" about creating something out of nothing, I couldn't have the computer here.

    There may be a close association between dreams and reality, and I've heard the whole dream vs. reality debate before. However, assume someone is dreaming, in their minds, but to the rest, they are still there. They are just dreaming. While asleep, you may be in a different world, yet to the rest of the world you are still here, just sleeping.

    When one refutes certain facts, and calls them assumptions, it's easy to create other facts/assumptions that now, do not have to be based on previous ones.

    Let's assume public safety does not exist. I can do whatever I want, and not get into trouble, because well, they don't exist. There is no one out there to stop me, and the idea of such is just an illusion. Now if you try to prove that, you're going to have a hard time since you will get arrested etc. However, you could then argue that since you did indeed get arrested, you on some level did believe they existed, as they are now here.

    It comes down to a similar argument I had with a friend, needless to say we were very intoxicated at this point, but he stated the human mind limits what we are capable of doing. What is stopping you from say, leaping 10 story buildings, is your mind's idea that it is not possible. Think the Matrix and Neo getting past that to do what he does. Regardless, it's almost impossible to prove the OP wrong when he ignores certain scientific principles and makes up his own facts.
    "I prefer to think of the BBT as the TV show, because let's face it, that girl is hot!"
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  5. #4  
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    Cogito, ergo sum....Thats all that i can think of posting really. Call it Denial, call it Hope...
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  6. #5  
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    Yep, I think therefore I am.

    My entire life I have sought after the answer to what ultimately created the universe....I have finally found an (possible) answer. Though....I do not want to share it yet; because 1. I still have to criticize it to no end and 2. If it is completely unique, then I would like to attempt to officially declare it to a scientific organization that I thought of the idea.

    ....I lucid dream (if thats how you put it) every day. I can't help but do it.

    One thing I noticed, and what many others have noticed, is that whenever I pick up a book while I am dreaming and try to read it, all of the pages are blank.

    I had a dream 2 weeks or so ago that was very interesting. I was doing something with someone, when I told them that something they were doing was completely wrong. Now, in real life not even a moron could get this wrong, in fact it is impossible. So they stared at me for a couple of seconds, then suddenly corrected their mistake. The thing though, is that many of these dreams deal with activities that I like very much (or would like to do if they were possible/reasonable); most of the time, whoever is with me acts accordingly, like if we are playing basketball, they will shoot the ball into the hoop; If we are racing, they will turn on the corners. This time though, the way they looked into my eyes told me something. I have the ability to tell what someone is thinking, and what kind of person they are by looking into their eyes. When I looked into this persons eyes in my dream, I could instantly see that the person was being controlled by my subconscious. Their motivation was to make my as happy as possible, and eliminated the logical fallacy due to the fact that I was becoming annoyed with them. If you observe your environment very hard, you can see that you are essentially looking at you; and most actions that result can be seen as direct actions by the 'second you', your subconsciousness. The way I see the second me, would be in the same way that you would regard an android with AI. You know that they are a real entity, yet have limited cognitive abilities and realization of cause and effect.

    Of course, you guys think that you are too 'intelligent' and 'mature' to watch anime and play video games, but you can learn some philosophy from both. If anyone is familiar with Bleach, notice Kurosaki's dreams when he gets in touch with his zanpakto. This is similar to what I just described. In fact, there is a very large amount of philosophy in bleach, you only have to look for it.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

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  7. #6 Re: A challenge to prove me wrong. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by entehrend
    About 2 days ago I wrote a small passage about a theory of mine. It is hard to believe but no one has been able to doubt it. I'm Just wanting some fresh eyes on this and see if anyone can come up with something new.

    sorry for the format, its just copied from a word document.

    What you are about to read is a theory that you won’t read anywhere else. It comes down to show without a reasonable doubt people, the universe, or even time doesn’t exist. I will reveal this to you in the same way that I discovered it. That is by first giving what is considered proof that time can not happen.
    It comes down to two simple facts, you can not create something out of nothing. And time can not go forever in the past. I think we all can agree that if you have nothing you will only continue to have nothing. Nothing is also the absence of time, but to put it in a way humans can comprehend imagine a vacuum of space with nothing in it, what would happen to that in a hundred years? What would happen to it in a million? The answer is nothing, nothing cannot make something.
    When I say time can not go forever in the past I mean what is a common argument for religion and all scientific theories that try and explain the beginning of the universe. That is just the simple question “what happened before that?” If you wanted to continue, that could keep it going infinitely, if there is something (the big band, god, ECT…) then there has to be something before that. There would be no end to the question unless you start with nothing. And we know you can’t start with nothing. Understand? There is always going to be something before that as long as we have time. So if there is always something before that moment then the present can not happen. Because those past moments hasn’t happened. The past moments haven’t happened because time before them hasn’t happened.
    There is no theory or religion that can get around this paradox, the big bang and god are both are demolished by the fact that time can not go back forever. Every explanation is debunked with these simple facts, all but one explanation. That is we don’t exist and we are only a figment of something’s imagination. We are living in a dream world.
    This may sound like nonsense but in my studies I have found great reason to believe this. The most amazing thing is how close this life or illusion is to out dreams. Not surprisingly I have also found that when you try and tell people that they do not exist they go in a state of denial and refuse to listen to anything that is said, if you say you have proof of there nonexistent they don’t bother to even ask about it. That is also one similarity to a dream. I spent close to a year practicing lucid dreams to test this, and it was well worth it. Lucid dreaming is during a dream you become aware that you are dreaming, allowing you do act as you would. During one of my lucid dreams I found myself with a small group of people, I began to explain to them what was going on. I began to tell them that they wasn’t real, that they were in my head. They acted the very same way that people act in this world. They denied every bit of it, it was frightening to see no difference what so ever.
    I hear many arguments against this entire topic, it is easy to see as long as you keep an open mind, however most people don’t. Some of there better defenses I hear include questions such as

    How can someone be dreaming for so many years?

    The answer: In a dream time is distorted, the years you think you have lived may only have been a few minutes or even seconds for the dreamer.

    Doesn’t your theory also debunk its self, wouldn’t the paradox mean there can’t be a dreamer.

    The answer: No, dreams never makes since. Because we are in the dream things will not make since. Like not being able to make since of our universe. But in the dreamers world things would make since, understanding things like how they got there would be simple.

    If I am a dream where do my memories come from?

    The answer: There illusions, you only think you have past memories.

    I would love to hear some questions or comments on this, at entehrend@yahoo.com



    Fallacy of Stolen Concept - An argument where your argument against the truth value of something implicitly demands that you accept the truth value of the thing you are trying to disprove in order to disprove it, making the argument incoherent and contradictory.

    ex.

    - "Language is meaningless" - If language is meaningless, then the statement "language is meaningless" is itself meaningless. When making the argument, you presuppose the meaningfulness of language.
    - "Truth does not exist" - If there is no such thing as truth, then it cannot possibly be true that there is no such thing as truth.
    - "I do not exist" - The speaker makes a statement about herself, and as such, presumes her own existence.
    - "Reality is an illusion" - The very concept "illusion" is derived from the concept "reality"; that is, the concept "illusion" makes absolutely no sense, unless there is indeed "reality" with which it may be contrasted"
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  8. #7  
    Forum Masters Degree SuperNatendo's Avatar
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    Nothing SHOULD exist, but it does.

    Thats the conclusion I have come to. The fact that things exist at all to even give us a sense of nothing is very remarkable to me.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Of course, you guys think that you are to 'intelligent' and 'mature' to watch anime and play video games, but you can learn some philosophy from both. If anyone is familiar with Bleach, notice Kurosaki's dreams when he gets in touch with his zanpakto. This is similar to what I just described. In fact, there is a very large amount of philosophy in bleach, you only have to look for it.
    I agree.
    In the anime series 'Naruto' there is ALOT to learn about life and how
    to be a good man, and in "DeathNote" anime/manga(comix) there are
    many VERY suffisticated ideas in it.

    It's really all very interesting...
    Good Brother
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    The truths that matter to us the most are often left half-spoken..
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  10. #9  
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    And as for the original post;
    I myself dont belive in the big bang theory. Just by saying that there was this peeble of everythingness makes it something, and by making it something it gives it an area of effect.
    And if this peebple of everythingness has an area of effect then it cant draw EVERYTHING in the universe to it as its area of effect fades as space goes further....
    Just my 2 cents...
    Good Brother
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    The truths that matter to us the most are often left half-spoken..
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  11. #10  
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    entehrend, If you +1-1 you have 0 correct? Take a look at matter and anti-matter, positive and negative charges. There are many examples of how the sum of the universe is nothing.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenacity
    entehrend, If you +1-1 you have 0 correct? Take a look at matter and anti-matter, positive and negative charges. There are many examples of how the sum of the universe is nothing.
    Actually that's incorrect.
    If I recall correctly; for every 1mil particles of anti-matter there are 1mil+1(1,000,001) patricles of matter, that's why there's all what there is todays...
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  13. #12  
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    Ha! My good man! :-D You like Death Note!
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Use your computing strength for science!
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  14. #13  
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    hehe, almost everyone that I know that knows about
    DeathNote likes the series, so I'm just one of many :P
    Good Brother
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  15. #14  
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    So long as our frame of reference is based only on those things we can know, we can measure, we can quantify and qualify, the OP is correct.

    Within the realm of that which is not known, which has not been measured, which has not been quantified, which has not been qualified, there may well be an ability to manufacture something out of nothing.

    So long as entehrand controls the horizontal and the vertical, we must remain in his twilight zone.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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  16. #15  
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    But if we are just figments of a person dream then where did the dreamer come from? If you can't create something from nothing that and Time can not go on forever in the past and everything comes from something then where did the dreamer originally come from?
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  17. #16  
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    At the propagation of matter, equal amounts of matter and antimatter were produced. Something caused an imbalance and now matter exists because of this imbalance. As to what caused the imbalance, or what caused energy, who knows? All I know is that even a dream requires a dreamer, so there is a physical universe, things do exist even though logically they really shouldn't at all.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  18. #17  
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    Think of a dream as a program, and of the dreamer as a computer.
    Now.. a computer program can't run(or exist) without a computer, can't it? :P
    Good Brother
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  19. #18  
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    What if the creator of the dream resides in the contents of the dream itself?
    You could of course say that that is impossible since the dream must first exist to create the dreamer, but there is a way around this. I believe there is a property of the universe that can allow for the creation of an entity if in the potential of it exists the power to make itself existent.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  20. #19  
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    No one I have ever drempt about has told me they were aware that they were in my dream. And wherein it may have had some erotic content relating to some person of the opposite sex whom I knew, it is probably a good thing.
    Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein

    If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005
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