Thread: The Illusion that is Astrology

The Illusion that is Astrology



The logic behind the naming of constellations of stars is in itself understandable, after all the ancients needed something to navigate by at night, and the familiarisation of random stars into groups helped facilitate that navigation.

However to imply that the characters created to merely facilitate that familiarisation, are somehow able to shape the character of human beings is nought but a heresy founded on one of the most regressive of all human traits.


The single redeeming feature that is referred to by those who believe in these made-up characters is the fact that some people do show the traits associated with their particular star sign. However a more detailed analysis reveals the reality behind this, one, so-called redeeming feature…

A person has to believe they can be hypnotised, before they can be, and so with this in mind, what is really happening is that a person believes they were born with the particular traits of their star-sign, whereby they proceed to funnel and filter all the information they receive into a structure that vindicates their belief.

So in my example, been born in the star sign of Virgo would have the effect of deluding me into manipulating the information I received, in order to fit that information into my world-view, and hence resulting in my creating a delusional notion of reality. Been a Virgo, maybe I would try and view events from the perspective of a woman, and because I am not a woman, this could only ever have the effect of my creating a false reality.

Another way of viewing this is like what happens with the warping of space-time around an object such as a star, if we view the incoming information as a comet for example, and a reliable interpretation of events as the comet passing the star without any disturbance/warping of its path, then we can view the false manipulation of reality that is the funnelling and filtering of information, as a warping of the comets path by the star.

Eventually, this view of reality will become so ingrained, and the mass of the star so massive, that all the matter that enters into the stars locality, will not only be warped by the star/world-view, but will spiral downward and be swallowed up by the star/world-view, having the effect of forever strengthening the deluded opinion already held, or in astronomical terms, forever increasing the mass of the star, which has by now probably become a black-hole, or in religious terms, the creation of a bottomless pit, where no matter how much pleasure one indulges in, one is never satisfied, because satisfaction in this context is the recognition of reality, and hence the abstention from delusion that forms bottomless pits.



I fear for, and care for all the people caught up in this train of thought, which by the way is not just restricted to astrology, as there are numerous perpetuations of which I have named only one simple example. If you do not care for the love I am trying to offer you, I forgive you, and will await a time you might need my help, and at that time, I will gladly help you.

Not that I wish to insult the intelligence of the people here, I wrote it for those that require an explanation

The horoscopes remind people to think about their psyches and offer terms to work with... it's a start.

Yes, a psyche based upon a character determined by what a group of stars appeared to look like to some ancient.

Can't think of many worse foundations upon which to build a personality/character!

We learn language through baby-talk don't we?

I'm not saying it's the best way in. But for many people that's the only way to get them started. Direct approach would baffle and perhaps frighten them.

Anyway, mythology is good exercise.

The best approach in where?

Get them started on what?

Mythology is a good exercise in what?

an allusion i guess

"as there are numerous perpetuations of which I have named only one simple example"

Is one, religion? In a similar way that you described, theists start off the same way, and eventually get so caught up with their own bullshit, that regardless of how much evidence you show them, they can never emerge from the black hole which they have sunk themselves into.

Regardless of how obscenely logical and objective your evidence is, there are still very many people here that will instantly discredit you and/or all of your sources just so that they can continue to follow their path of ignorance.

If you are trying to ameliorate the minds of fools, then look elsewhere.

(A little irrelevant to your post, but since you are new here, I thought I might add that)

an allusion i guess

Yeah, the next woman that smiles at me, is apparently my future luuuve, haa haa.

If you are trying to ameliorate the minds of fools, then look elsewhere.

Ameloiorate - nice word, not come across that one before.

O Messenger (Muhammed SAW)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allâh will protect you from mankind. Verily, Allâh guides not the people who disbelieve. {Noble Qur'an 5:67}

Guess no one here is gonna listen to me anymore after quoting that!

Ahh well.

Originally Posted by kremdelakrem

The best approach in where?

Get them started on what?

Mythology is a good exercise in what?

Do you reject novels because they're made up and don't address who you really are? I think not! Perhaps you've read some fictional works that really touched you and got you reflecting about some things. Things you wouldn't just find on your own. See, the story prompts you to think outside your everyday reality, or try a fresh perspective.

OK, here's something for Pisces to reflect on, this May 17th, 2008:

Communications look a little strained today; beware getting the wrong end of the stick; missed messages or straying emails may add to the confusion. On a practical note, journeys and trips may be subject to delays and holdups. Allow extra time, if you’re planning on going anywhere!

Now how can that apply to me? Can I possibly find it wrong without first considering some elements of my day in greater depth than I normally would? See, even if the horoscope is wrong, it does me good. It made me think.

You seem to be missing the point.

Namely that you are wasting your time buliding a structure upon boggy ground, if you are satisfied with a bungalow, you might be able to get away with it, however most wish to have larger buildings and bigger families.

There's a difference between what astrology pretends to do, and what it does. I'm arguing that what it does is not all bad.

Same goes for religion. One may be right for the wrong reasons. Let's be real: oftentimes that's good enough.

We aren't omniscient. Sometimes we've just gotta throw the dice. So, all things being equal, two Japanese execs will sometimes resolve a crucial juncture by "rock, paper, scissors". Or the blood type (sign) listed on a resume. Rather than delude ourselves to thinking we have all the info.

I prefer the unpretentious penny. But astrology serves as well.

There's a difference between what astrology pretends to do, and what it does. I'm arguing that what it does is not all bad.

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion, but thats all it is as far as I am concerned, an opinion, not a fact.


If you approached a scientific problem with the same logic (i.e. it doesn't matter that the foundation of what you believe is flawed, often times its good enough), you get a scenario like what we see in modern theoretical physics, where problems are not resolved, and the truth is not found, because most are content with patching up the infinite in their sums, as a pose to addressing the flaws in the foundation of their logic.

So go ahead, roll your dice... meanwhile, I will be seeking the soundest of foundations on which to build my house, and will gladly reap the rewards, that will be denied you.

All the planets have different qualities

Do you think that is just a fluke?

To use those qualities to describe human personalities is probably vain and far fetched

But do you think it is a ridiculous idea to wonder if these planets might in some way affect what's going on on this planet albeit in a subtle way?

We are all existing within the same solar system and the moon and sun has a definite effect on us.

The sun's activity has been shown to have strange affects on human activities and moods and the same for the moon.

http://lifetechnologynews.blogspot.c...uman-mind.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...fe-433071.html

So do you think it is quite possible the other spheres orbiting our solar system might also affect us in some way?

Originally Posted by Pong

Do you reject novels because they're made up and don't address who you really are? I think not! Perhaps you've read some fictional works that really touched you and got you reflecting about some things. Things you wouldn't just find on your own. See, the story prompts you to think outside your everyday reality, or try a fresh perspective.

The problem with this reasoning is that novels don't acclaim to be true. Astrology, despite numerous debunkings is still puttering around under the guise of 'truth.'

OK, here's something for Pisces to reflect on, this May 17th, 2008:

Communications look a little strained today; beware getting the wrong end of the stick; missed messages or straying emails may add to the confusion. On a practical note, journeys and trips may be subject to delays and holdups. Allow extra time, if you’re planning on going anywhere!

Now how can that apply to me? Can I possibly find it wrong without first considering some elements of my day in greater depth than I normally would? See, even if the horoscope is wrong, it does me good. It made me think.

A lot of things can make you think. Does that mean we should embrace it all as harmless?

Originally Posted by Selene

All the planets have different qualities

Do you think that is just a fluke?

To use those qualities to describe human personalities is probably vain and far fetched

But do you think it is a ridiculous idea to wonder if these planets might in some way affect what's going on on this planet albeit in a subtle way?

We are all existing within the same solar system and the moon and sun has a definite effect on us.

The sun's activity has been shown to have strange affects on human activities and moods and the same for the moon.

http://lifetechnologynews.blogspot.c...uman-mind.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...fe-433071.html

So do you think it is quite possible the other spheres orbiting our solar system might also affect us in some way?

I suggest you read the following: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/astrology.html

Originally Posted by pollutantofbeliefs

Originally Posted by Selene

All the planets have different qualities

Do you think that is just a fluke?

To use those qualities to describe human personalities is probably vain and far fetched

But do you think it is a ridiculous idea to wonder if these planets might in some way affect what's going on on this planet albeit in a subtle way?

We are all existing within the same solar system and the moon and sun has a definite effect on us.

The sun's activity has been shown to have strange affects on human activities and moods and the same for the moon.

http://lifetechnologynews.blogspot.c...uman-mind.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...fe-433071.html

So do you think it is quite possible the other spheres orbiting our solar system might also affect us in some way?

I suggest you read the following: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/astrology.html

I have already read this before.

I am not talking about Russell Grant Astrology where people are compartmented into types depending on when they were born.

I am talking about a type of Cosmo Psychology whereby particular planets and stars and their particular qualities together with their movements and positions affect humans mentally and physically.

Our nearest star and satellite influence us in this way.

Show me any real evidence that proves other celestial bodies do not have an influence on humans and other living things on our planet.

Originally Posted by Selene

Originally Posted by pollutantofbeliefs

Originally Posted by Selene

All the planets have different qualities

Do you think that is just a fluke?

To use those qualities to describe human personalities is probably vain and far fetched

But do you think it is a ridiculous idea to wonder if these planets might in some way affect what's going on on this planet albeit in a subtle way?

We are all existing within the same solar system and the moon and sun has a definite effect on us.

The sun's activity has been shown to have strange affects on human activities and moods and the same for the moon.

http://lifetechnologynews.blogspot.c...uman-mind.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...fe-433071.html

So do you think it is quite possible the other spheres orbiting our solar system might also affect us in some way?

I suggest you read the following: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/astrology.html

I have already read this before.

I am not talking about Russell Grant Astrology where people are compartmented into types depending on when they were born.

I am talking about a type of Cosmo Psychology whereby particular planets and stars and their particular qualities together with their movements and positions affect humans mentally and physically.

Our nearest star and satellite influence us in this way.

Show me any real evidence that proves other celestial bodies do not have an influence on humans and other living things on our planet.

Show me evidence that supports this "cosmo psychology."

Originally Posted by pollutantofbeliefs

A lot of things can make you think. Does that mean we should embrace it all as harmless?

I find much of life is just "something to do" or "something to talk about" ... some game to play, or cheer for, etc. Yes, it's harmless unless it begins to rule one's life.

I have to get some new silverware to match the plates. This will not be cheap...

I used the term Cosmic Psychology because I couldn't think of a better term to describe it, but now see that this term has already been used in the context of religion and spirituality, so I will have to think of something else.

Having read back at the past comments on astrology i am amazed at the level of ignorance based an a rigid rationalism.

You seem to regard others as not being able to grasp psychology and self reflection, that they might need 'baby-talk' in order to introduce these ideas.

One of the worst forms of egotism is this self elevation through regarding everyone else as stupid or inferior bar your self which only serves to alienate you from the very self you seek to know.

Do you not see the illusion in this?

There is no real evidence whatsoever to prove or disprove the idea that celestial bodies in our solar system exert an influence on human psychology.

Yet there is real evidence that the sun's activities affect our weather patterns and our moods.
There is also real evidence that the movements of the moon affect oceans and living matter on this planet.
The police and the hospital emergency wards will tell you the evidence of what a full moon can bring.
Plant growth reacts to the moon. The tides react to the moon. Our bodies, especially womens reacts to the moon.

Do you not think all these have an effect on the human psyche?

Do you not think that the evidence we have to go on so far about our two nearest solar bodies might then be in favour of the possibility that other bodies in the universe might also exert some kind of influence.

It is not such a ridiculous idea as you might think. Forget Russell Grant and astrological signs. This is just mythology based upon this possibility.
I am talking about the real effects the celestial bodies might exert that has nothing to do with crabs, bull or fish etc!

With this in mind it is then foolish to poo-pooh the remote possibility that this might be the case.

The overly rational mind is terrified to consider that which science has yet to prove.
Science is the new religion?

Then you are the victims of science if you shut the door on particular ideas which are yet to be proven and upon analysis there might be a possibility that it could be true.

Pure science is that which keeps an open mind, yet constantly seeks to disprove the possibilities through experiment.
It doesn't deny the possibility just because there have been no methods as yet to disprove this theory or the mind struggles to conceive it.

This only makes for a narrow mind which runs the unfortunate risk of missing the point entirely when new discoveries are made.

http://www.nasca.org.uk/Astrology/astrology.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1218090305.htm

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/glo...de_forces.html

http://www.livingcosmos.com/solar.htm

This one is just a bit of fun, but also explains Keplers Law

http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/age/index.html

Originally Posted by Selene

You seem to regard others as not being able to grasp psychology and self reflection, that they might need 'baby-talk' in order to introduce these ideas.

One of the worst forms of egotism is this self elevation through regarding everyone else as stupid or inferior bar your self which only serves to alienate you from the very self you seek to know.

Do you not see the illusion in this?

And when did I do any of this? This seems like a straw man argument.

There is no real evidence whatsoever to prove or disprove the idea that celestial bodies in our solar system exert an influence on human psychology.

Ok, you make this claim, but then don't provide anything to support it.

Yet there is real evidence that the sun's activities affect our weather patterns and our moods.
There is also real evidence that the movements of the moon affect oceans and living matter on this planet.
The police and the hospital emergency wards will tell you the evidence of what a full moon can bring.
Plant growth reacts to the moon. The tides react to the moon. Our bodies, especially womens reacts to the moon.

Oh no! Not this "full moon makes you crazy!' garbage. Now I know you just want to believe in pseudoscience.

I think I'm going to stop right there.

Originally Posted by Selene

http://www.nasca.org.uk/Astrology/astrology.html

New age website. Just look at the ads on top. "The New Age Begins, 666!"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1218090305.htm

All this article talks about is how other planets may influence Earth's climate. Now how do you use this information to extrapolate that this means it affects your personality?

Originally Posted by pollutantofbeliefs

Oh no! Not this "full moon makes you crazy!' garbage. Now I know you just want to believe in pseudoscience.

Ever heard of PMS?

Originally Posted by Cold Fusion

Is one, religion? In a similar way that you described, theists start off the same way, and eventually get so caught up with their own bullshit, that regardless of how much evidence you show them, they can never emerge from the black hole which they have sunk themselves into.

Indeed. Astrology doesn't really seem any more or less wacky than most of the stuff that you find in most religions. Heck, at least other planets can be demonstrated to exist.

Originally Posted by Pong

We learn language through baby-talk don't we?

I'm not saying it's the best way in. But for many people that's the only way to get them started. Direct approach would baffle and perhaps frighten them.

Anyway, mythology is good exercise.

Baby talk?

People are stupid aint they? Bar your self of course! How ignorance flaunts itself as arrogance.

Pollutantofbeliefs what makes you think i am referring to you?

Ego?

Is that all you can offer is a fear of full moon??

Do you have real evidence that this isn't so?

I'm beginning to think you are a fool and not a delightful fool that shows promise.

Would you like to take a look at the other links?

Are you people really this ignorant and narrow minded or are you just pulling my leg here?

Those pages, Selene, are flaky. Which is too bad, 'cause I do believe a person's time, day, and season of birth may correlate somewhat with adult personality, and do believe cycles of Earth, Moon, Sun affect us hugely... like oh I will probably go to bed after dark, for starters. Why mystify?


I was born on the 1st of March, in Vancouver, Canada. Going from that - without invoking astrology - one can guess plenty about me, and it's all true.

Originally Posted by Pong

Those pages, Selene, are flaky. Which is too bad, 'cause I do believe a person's time, day, and season of birth may correlate somewhat with adult personality, and do believe cycles of Earth, Moon, Sun affect us hugely... like oh I will probably go to bed after dark, for starters. Why mystify?


I was born on the 1st of March, in Vancouver, Canada. Going from that - without invoking astrology - one can guess plenty about me, and it's all true.

I am beginning to think some of the members on this forum are flakes


Who cares when and where you were born

Nobody can tell much about you with that information

I'm afraid I don't go in for the type of astrology that assigns us all an animal and thinks it knows everything there is to know about us or what's going to happen on a particular day just because of the position of the planets.

Nevertheless I don't think we can quite rule out the possibility that cosmic activity might have some sort of affect on our planet and therefore it might affect us.

It's called null hypothesis, it's called keeping an open mind until a theory is positively disproved.

It's called scientific thinking and inquiry.

Something which some of the narrow minds on here appear to find it difficult to do.

So how exactly does the moon, the sun and other planets affect us?

Well, the moon gives off a nice glow when it's full, so we may be affected by the reflected photons.

The sun affects us plenty, can't live without it.

The other planets may affect us similar to the moon when viewed through a telescope.

Aside from that, nada. To make claims that they have any affect over us in regards to our births, personality traits or anything else astrology claims is clearly delusional.

Originally Posted by Selene

Who cares when and where you were born

Nobody can tell much about you with that information

Originally Posted by Selene

Nevertheless I don't think we can quite rule out the possibility that cosmic activity might have some sort of affect on our planet and therefore it might affect us.

So, it makes no difference being, say, the oldest kid in your grade, or the youngest. Or being Norwegian born into the dark half of the year, or Sicilian born in springtime. But the position of Neptune does make a difference to adults?

Originally Posted by Pong

Originally Posted by Selene

Who cares when and where you were born

Nobody can tell much about you with that information

Originally Posted by Selene

Nevertheless I don't think we can quite rule out the possibility that cosmic activity might have some sort of affect on our planet and therefore it might affect us.

So, it makes no difference being, say, the oldest kid in your grade, or the youngest. Or being Norwegian born into the dark half of the year, or Sicilian born in springtime. But the position of Neptune does make a difference to adults?

Nope.

None of it makes any difference whatsoever

Originally Posted by Selene

None of it makes any difference whatsoever

I can't argue with that. But could I ever mock it if you slip souls or reincarnation into this discussion. Go on...

Originally Posted by Pong

Originally Posted by Selene

None of it makes any difference whatsoever

I can't argue with that. But could I ever mock it if you slip souls or reincarnation into this discussion. Go on...

You're weird

Originally Posted by Selene

You're weird

You're off topic.

Originally Posted by Pong

Originally Posted by Selene

You're weird

You're off topic.

Who gives a shit

Originally Posted by Pong

I was born in Vancouver, Canada.

That explains it.

Vancouver is rather cloistered and doesn't really exist in reality

lol

"I was born on the 1st of March, in Vancouver, Canada. Going from that - without invoking astrology - one can guess plenty about me, and it's all true."

-I love Vancouver!

Selene, Vancouver doesn't exist? Not that cloistered......there are many towns around it, and Seattle is only 2 hours away.

Originally Posted by Cold Fusion

Selene, Vancouver doesn't exist? Not that cloistered......there are many towns around it, and Seattle is only 2 hours away.

I said it doesn't exist in reality.

I didn't say who's reality, maybe it exists in your reality because maybe you've been there, if there is such a place, and you love it as you say.

But I've never been there. So how do i know I can really trust anyone else to say that it really exists?

Anyway, you just made that up.

There's no such place as Seattle, except in films.

WA?????????????

Originally Posted by Cold Fusion

WA?????????????

She is making a statement about personal reality dude.
She is not that crazy!

Originally Posted by KALSTER

She is not that crazy!

Thanks Kalster

I'd really like to trust you....

But how do you know that I'm not that crazy?

I haven't seen convincing evidence of it. 8)

Originally Posted by KALSTER

I haven't seen convincing evidence of it. 8)

Mmmm........must try harder

On a serious note, I need to ask a favour...

If you were to make a judgement upon what I have stated in this thread alone, why would you think that someone would deem me only capable of doing a 'picker & packer' job?

Where picker and packer refers to been given barcodes etc wherewith one would select items off a shelf and pack them to be sent from the warehouse to .....

Originally Posted by kremdelakrem

On a serious note, I need to ask a favour...

If you were to make a judgement upon what I have stated in this thread alone, why would you think that someone would deem me only capable of doing a 'picker & packer' job?

Where picker and packer refers to been given barcodes etc wherewith one would select items off a shelf and pack them to be sent from the warehouse to .....

You need to be able to speak Polish or Czechoslovakian for a job like that......

Greetings Selene,

Thanks for putting a light hearted spin on this (not that I wish to demean any Pole's or Czech's).

I would still though appreciate the opinions of everyone else.

Originally Posted by kremdelakrem

Greetings Selene,

Thanks for putting a light hearted spin on this (not that I wish to demean any Pole's or Czech's).

I would still though appreciate the opinions of everyone else.

Greetings Kreamy Krem

I don't really know what you are going on about. I've looked back but can't find anything that refers to you doing a picking & packing job, and perhaps everyone else will wonder what you mean also.

Why don't you quote the bit that says it?

Anyway maybe someone was just being spiteful, if that's the case tell them to sling their hook and don't take things to heart.

What the hell do they know anyway?

Selene, if I may address some of your comments regarding the initial topic of this thread.

If I asked you to imagine a tree, it is likely that you will picture either a tree from the locality in which you live, or a tree that exists in poignant memory you have. With this in mind, if I were then to ask you to explain the effect the moon might have on your inner-self, that effect would differ drastically depending on the concept of the moon you have formed within yourself.

It is this concept I would like you to contemplate.


I do not know everything there is to know about the moon, if I knew everything there is to know I could be sure that the moon exists outside myself and is not merely a concept I have created.

I believe the moon you have hinted at previously exists within yourself, or in other words, at this moment in time you are able to choose whether or not the moon has an effect on you, as can be observed by the fact that some in this thread have chosen for it not to have an effect on their inner-selves, whereas you are open to the fact that it might well have an effect.


The best advice I can offer you relates to the following verse from the Qur’an: And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who - ascribe partners to Allâh (and do not believe in Resurrection - Magians, pagans, and idolaters, etc.). Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such life will not save him even a little from (due) punishment. And Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (2:96)

I think your openness is a good thing, but hope that you might be careful concerning the following:

If the moon was your god and there were no rivals thereto, that false god would hold dominion over your thoughts & actions, hence the above statement concerning those who believe in one god (where, in the above context, that god represents the luxuries of the world) been the greediest of mankind, whereas those whom have several gods (ie in this context - the sun, the moon, the stars etc) have their various trains of thought/greed constantly ’checked’ as it were, by the rivalry between their various gods.

However, bringing this back to my original post, I do not believe this type of checking is a good thing as can be observed in the way the Sun’s gravitational effect competes with the gravitational effect of Jupiter upon the asteroid belt, rendering what might have formed into a beautiful planet, obsolete.

And indeed We bestowed aforetime on Ibrâhim (Abraham) his (portion of) guidance, and We were Well-Acquainted with him (as to his Belief in the Oneness of Allâh, etc.). When he said to his father and his people: "What are these images, to which you are devoted?" They said: "We found our fathers worshipping them." He said: "Indeed you and your fathers have been in manifest error." They said: "Have you brought us the truth, or are you one of those who play about?" He said: "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who created them and of that I am one of the witnesses. "And by Allâh, I shall plot a plan (to destroy) your idols after you have gone away and turned your backs." So he broke them to pieces, (all) except the biggest of them, that they might turn to it. They said: "Who has done this to our âliha (gods)? He must indeed be one of the wrong-doers." They said: "We heard a young man talking (against) them who is called Ibrâhim (Abraham)." They said: "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may testify." They said: "Are you the one who has done this to our gods, O Ibrâhim?" [Ibrâhim] said: "Nay, this one, the biggest of them (idols) did it. Ask them, if they can speak!" So they turned to themselves and said: "Verily, you are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers)." Then they turned to themselves (their first thought and said): "Indeed you [Ibrâhim (Abraham)] know well that these (idols) speak not!" [Ibrâhim] said: "Do you then worship besides Allâh, things that can neither profit you, nor harm you? "Fie upon you, and upon that which you worship besides Allâh! Have you then no sense?" They said: "Burn him and help your âliha (gods), if you will be doing." We (Allâh) said: "O fire! Be you coolness and safety for Ibrâhim!" And they wanted to harm him, but We made them the worst losers. (Quran 21: 51-70)

Greetings Kreamy Krem

I don't really know what you are going on about. I've looked back but can't find anything that refers to you doing a picking & packing job, and perhaps everyone else will wonder what you mean also.

Why don't you quote the bit that says it?

Anyway maybe someone was just being spiteful, if that's the case tell them to sling their hook and don't take things to heart.

What the hell do they know anyway?

Yeah sorry about that - The people at my jobcentre have stopped my Job Seekers Allowance because my jobsearch is apperantly unreasonable, and they are refusing to start it again unless I agree to search for a picker & packer job. As far as they are concerned, this is all I am capable of doing.

I am facing been thrown out onto the street as I have no money coming in, so unfortunatley I have no choice but to 'take it to heart'.

Originally Posted by kremdelakrem

Selene, if I may address some of your comments regarding the initial topic of this thread.

If I asked you to imagine a tree, it is likely that you will picture either a tree from the locality in which you live, or a tree that exists in poignant memory you have. With this in mind, if I were then to ask you to explain the effect the moon might have on your inner-self, that effect would differ drastically depending on the concept of the moon you have formed within yourself.

It is this concept I would like you to contemplate.


I do not know everything there is to know about the moon, if I knew everything there is to know I could be sure that the moon exists outside myself and is not merely a concept I have created.

I believe the moon you have hinted at previously exists within yourself, or in other words, at this moment in time you are able to choose whether or not the moon has an effect on you, as can be observed by the fact that some in this thread have chosen for it not to have an effect on their inner-selves, whereas you are open to the fact that it might well have an effect.


The best advice I can offer you relates to the following verse from the Qur’an: And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who - ascribe partners to Allâh (and do not believe in Resurrection - Magians, pagans, and idolaters, etc.). Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such life will not save him even a little from (due) punishment. And Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (2:96)

I think your openness is a good thing, but hope that you might be careful concerning the following:

If the moon was your god and there were no rivals thereto, that false god would hold dominion over your thoughts & actions, hence the above statement concerning those who believe in one god (where, in the above context, that god represents the luxuries of the world) been the greediest of mankind, whereas those whom have several gods (ie in this context - the sun, the moon, the stars etc) have their various trains of thought/greed constantly ’checked’ as it were, by the rivalry between their various gods.

However, bringing this back to my original post, I do not believe this type of checking is a good thing as can be observed in the way the Sun’s gravitational effect competes with the gravitational effect of Jupiter upon the asteroid belt, rendering what might have formed into a beautiful planet, obsolete.

And indeed We bestowed aforetime on Ibrâhim (Abraham) his (portion of) guidance, and We were Well-Acquainted with him (as to his Belief in the Oneness of Allâh, etc.). When he said to his father and his people: "What are these images, to which you are devoted?" They said: "We found our fathers worshipping them." He said: "Indeed you and your fathers have been in manifest error." They said: "Have you brought us the truth, or are you one of those who play about?" He said: "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who created them and of that I am one of the witnesses. "And by Allâh, I shall plot a plan (to destroy) your idols after you have gone away and turned your backs." So he broke them to pieces, (all) except the biggest of them, that they might turn to it. They said: "Who has done this to our âliha (gods)? He must indeed be one of the wrong-doers." They said: "We heard a young man talking (against) them who is called Ibrâhim (Abraham)." They said: "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may testify." They said: "Are you the one who has done this to our gods, O Ibrâhim?" [Ibrâhim] said: "Nay, this one, the biggest of them (idols) did it. Ask them, if they can speak!" So they turned to themselves and said: "Verily, you are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers)." Then they turned to themselves (their first thought and said): "Indeed you [Ibrâhim (Abraham)] know well that these (idols) speak not!" [Ibrâhim] said: "Do you then worship besides Allâh, things that can neither profit you, nor harm you? "Fie upon you, and upon that which you worship besides Allâh! Have you then no sense?" They said: "Burn him and help your âliha (gods), if you will be doing." We (Allâh) said: "O fire! Be you coolness and safety for Ibrâhim!" And they wanted to harm him, but We made them the worst losers. (Quran 21: 51-70)

Right Kreamy

Apart from thinking that there is an element to you that is quite loony and perhaps your looniness could be attributed to the moon (it's not an impossibility therefore it could be a possibility- never rule anything out until it has ruled you out) or it could be due to the stress of your predicament in having your dole withdrawn and the prospect of having to work in a warehouse picking & packing and learning Polish and Czechoslovakian.

There is a possibility that you might have more money with this option, but obviously less time to waste on forums reciting the Koran.

Ask them to send you on a training course instead, tell them you need help with writing a cv, interviews etc. Not only will the course last just a couple of weeks, but you will retain your dole and they will probably throw you an extra tenner a week on top. After the course they will leave you alone for another year, whilst they think you are pursuing a job. When they come round to your name again next year, tell them you have gotten rusty and despondent at not having found a job yet and could you please go on another course.....etc etc.......if you want to waste your life away subsisting on fifty quid a week doing bugger all except reciting Koranic verse on forums!

Yet amidst the looniness a little of what you say does make sense, but then everything boils down to concept, as you have emphasized, and concept is a root of conception which is the unification of opposites which gives birth to a third. This third between the two opposites gives a middle path which is the route to equilibrium, and i think this is what you mean by the two Gods keeping everything in check and balanced.

If I had to imagine a tree then it would be the Tree of Life of the Kabbalah.
This is a fantastic symbolic diagram which describes perfectly the balance between the opposites, the middle path, or the route to equilibrium and the relationship between each God, Planet or whatever you want to call the spheres.

Equilibrium is always maintained by the same amount of force from two opposites. The middle where those two forces meet is where equilibrium and balance exists

This is why extremity of anything is never a good thing.

Originally Posted by kremdelakrem

If you were to make a judgement upon what I have stated in this thread alone, why would you think that someone would deem me only capable of doing a 'picker & packer' job?

You said you're Virgo right? The scales. :?



Seriously, I addressed that already:

Originally Posted by Pong

We aren't omniscient. Sometimes we've just gotta throw the dice. So, all things being equal, two Japanese execs will sometimes resolve a crucial juncture by "rock, paper, scissors". Or the blood type (sign) listed on a resume. Rather than delude ourselves to thinking we have all the info.

Somebody has to fill the position. Bad luck for you.

Indeed, I wonder why I share things with people.

Thanks for fuck all.

Originally Posted by kremdelakrem

Indeed, I wonder why I share things with people.

Thanks for fuck all.

I understand your frustration, anger and confusion at finding yourself in your current predicament. I have been there too. That said, Selene gave a thoughful and detailed response and Pong, though curt, gave an honest one. Between the lines he was saying "It is not your fault you cannot currently get a decent job. That's just the way things sometimes pan out."

Both responses seem to me considerate and considered and undeserving of your reply.

Good luck with the job hunt.

Originally Posted by kremdelakrem

The Illusion that is Astrology
blah blah blah blah

Clearly you know nothing about the alleged 'science' behind astrology, nothing you have written here refers to it.

Ignorance is bliss is it not.

Meanwhile


I am a believer in the 'science' behind astrology, that is until.....

I am reminded of two twin brothers I knew who were nothing alike and did not experience the same highs and lows. Sure there was a few mins difference between their birth times but they were conceived at the same time.