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Thread: The Secret (Documentary)

  1. #1 The Secret (Documentary) 
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    I watched this documentary and was fuming in short order. How can we allow such drivel to permeate our society? I have seen representatives of The Secret on South African television having the interviewers' undivided attention. If I am not mistaken, it was featured on an episode of Oprah as well! Imagine the following it generated just by appearing on Oprah. People are eating it up. While I would definitely agree that a positive attitude and healthy personal belief mostly influences one's life for the better, this is not the message being perpetuated by this documentary. It puts forth the idea that we as humans can influence the UNIVERSE with our thoughts. They even employed two quantum physicists in their line-up. One of them, Fred Alan Wolf, seems to be quite accomplished. But he believes that human perception changes what is observed and has derived his endorsement of "The Secret" from that.

    They also (dishonestly) site prominent historical figures as believers in The Secret, including Newton, Einstein, and more.

    Anyone seen it?


    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    There are physicists and philosophers who argue that conscious observation is necessary to collapse waveforms, as in the case of Schroedinger's Cat.

    For my view on this see my tag line below.


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    You know, maybe there's something to this "like attracts like" thing. Just think about this as an example:

    Stupid attracts stupid

    The movie is a testimony to that, amazing!



    Ok, enough jokes. I found this extremely paradoxial and typical (putting man in the center, portraying man as god). People want different things, just there the whole concept collapsed.

    Let's take out an example from the movie itself (I watched a 20min version or something, but still):

    The Secret.

    There's a gay man being bothered by others all the time and the conclusion is that he's obsessing about this and that's why he's getting bullied all the time. The minute he tried focusing positively, the people who bothered him at work supposedly quit or was transferred etc. This of course could be just a coincidence, but that's not my point. My point lies in the possibility that these people who bothered him perhaps WANTED to bother him, thus according to the principle of "The Law of Attraction" they would get what they want, they didn't.

    What about people who suffers psychological obsessions thinking their God, will they become God? No, of course not. The whole idea is stupid, in my humble objective opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    There are physicists and philosophers who argue that conscious observation is necessary to collapse waveforms, as in the case of Schroedinger's Cat.
    According to experiments it appers to be so when measuring at a quantum level (if I'm not mistaking). Though I doubt our frequency/thought-waves/perception, can affect the radiation coming from the sun or decide if someone else lives or dies. What about animals perception of the world and their positive and negative feelings? Why are we humans so special with superpowers of perception? What about all the conflicting desires and ideas bursting out continuesly from everywhere, supposedly affecting everything at the same time?

    There's a lot of things that just don't fit at all with the concept of "like attracts like."

    There's a lot of things we don't yet understand, and I think "The Secret" is just taking things out of proportions...
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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    I have always thought of the waveform collapse thing as resulting from the need of detection equipment to be indirectly affected by the thing being observed, be it a photon or gravitation waves. If you were to make a video recording of the results, would the video tape become part of the system and would the waveform only collapse upon viewing of the tape? I do not personally think so, but I might be wrong.

    In any case, I happen to hold the view that animals certainly also qualify as being conscious. So from this (widely accepted) view, I cannot even entertain the possibility that the premise of The Secret is valid.

    PS: Ophiolite, I came across this in the Wiki article on Haldane:
    Often quoted for saying, "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."[4] Haldane is sometimes misquoted as saying, "Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine" which should be attributed to Arthur Stanley Eddington.[5]
    :wink:
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    PS: Ophiolite, I came across this in the Wiki article on Haldane:
    Often quoted for saying, "My own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."[4] Haldane is sometimes misquoted as saying, "Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine" which should be attributed to Arthur Stanley Eddington.[5]
    :wink:
    I have run across all three versions: queerer, weirder, stranger. Since they all say much the same thing and it mirrors my own thoughts, I opted for one of them. I don't think I had seen the attribution of 'stranger' to Eddington before, so thanks for that titbit.
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    Everything starts with a thought

    shoot me down in flames and anyone else that believes the same

    I haven't seen the documentary

    but this secret has been known for millennium by many wise and intelligent beings.

    The creative impetus forms into a thought which then progresses to emotion. If a thought or desire is backed with a strong emotion then yes it is possible that it will manifest in the physical.

    That is the formula of creation

    Enflame thyself in prayer is a magical formula

    Deny all you want, say those that know this are loony, nuts and need locking up but it won't change it, and if you deny then you have missed the opportunity to utilize this powerful natural ability
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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    If a thought or desire is backed with a strong emotion then yes it is possible that it will manifest in the physical.
    But what exactly does this mean? That our thoughts directly influence events outside of our direct senses? How is this even possible? Like I said, I fully agree that strong self belief and a positive attitude will greatly enhance your chances of success, but that is because of the positive motivational effects of these emotions on yourself and others. I would even go so far as to suggest that a group of people that really take The Secret to heart would statistically be more successful than a control group left to their own devices (all things being equal), but that does NOT mean the premise is correct.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  9. #8  
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    I agree with Selene on this one, if you dont want to use it, dont. I much preferred What the Bleep and Down the Rabbit Hole but the Secret was fine. I find it wild that you get so fumed about this when there is more so much crap being preached to people around the world.
    Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.
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    It means exactly what it states

    A thought persistently held in the mind and backed up with enough emotion will manifest in the physical world.

    I know some of you will cringe at the term 'magician' but i am going to use it anyway, but by the term magician i mean anyone, including past and present sages seers, prophets, wise people, freemasons, even Jesus himself was a proficient magician, the list of people who know and have utilized this 'trick' is enormous, but it's not really a trick, it's a natural law and it will work for anyone.

    But the reason i use the term 'magician' is because to be able to hold a strong enough thought about something in particular to the exclusion of all other thoughts, fueled with the right amount of emotion which is controlled by the will or intention usually requires a lot of practice and training.

    Try holding a particular conscious thought in your mind and exclude every other thought
    Not easy is it, you might be able to manage it for a minute at the most if you are lucky, but soon your mind will become invaded by many other thoughts, you will notice how chaotic the mind really is (no wonder then our lives often appear chaotic)

    Once you've managed to learn to hold one thought in your mind, now try to invoke an emotion behind it, such as a strong intense desire for that particular thing.
    That's not easy either is it? Because it's not easy to consciously switch on an emotion.

    It's not easy to control our thoughts and emotions, but it's not impossible.
    The reason it's so difficult is because we haven't practiced controlling our thoughts and emotions.

    Normally our thoughts and emotions control us! Thoughts pop into our minds seemingly out of the blue and emotions grip us often uncontrollably.

    Often the case is that we will worry about something, often an irrational fear, and this worry becomes backed up by the emotion of a fearful stomach churning, and the irony here is that i am creating a situation where my fear and worry will come true.
    In fact my obsession with this fearful idea fueled with the feeling of fear and dread will most certainly make that fearful idea come true!

    We attract what we fear!

    Like most definitely attracts like! (I will explain this theory in a bit)

    Most people are experts at doing that, and it feels uncontrollable.

    The secret is to turn the tables on this technique and control our thoughts and feelings.

    Controlling thoughts requires training by using meditation techniques, which most of us are familiar with in theory. All i can suggest is try it and keep on trying, often with these techniques you will feel for some time you are getting nowhere, and then oddly all of a sudden you will begin to get results. The knack here is perseverance.

    Now to get an emotion once you have mastered thought is easy if you are of a religious nature and used to praying, praying automatically focuses on a love for god, but if you are not then here is a technique i do.

    The feeling of love is the necessary emotion required to attract things to you. To get into the groove of love and familiarize yourself with the feeling with the aim of being able to control this feeling and invoke it whenever you wish one of the methods i use is this:

    Think of all the people in your life you love, put an image of them in your mind and focus on how you feel about them, before long you will begin to feel those pangs of love, can you feel it in your body? Where? Usually it is in the stomach or solar plexus. Immerse yourself in this feeling of love and become familiar with it as a feeling.

    Do this often and you will be able to invoke the feeling of love whenever you choose.

    Now imagination is one of the keys to strengthen a thought.

    So for example if you can think of a thought and imagine a visual image connected with that thought and then invoke the feeling of love
    what you are doing is switching on all the necessary components of creation, thought is a subtle vibration or frequency, emotion is a more grosser or solid form of vibration or frequency. The next step in this process is the lowest vibration or frequency into matter on the physical plane.

    This isn't magical or spiritual clap-trap. This is real. This is science and physics.
    Physics is only just becoming aware of the nature of these things that past wise people have known and used for aeons.

    All i can suggest to you is try it?
    The proof is in the pudding so to speak.
    The best scientist and experimenter in regard to this is you.

    If you try to control these irrational fears and worries in order to stop attracting them to you. If you try to control the chaos of mind and thought. If you learn how to invoke love at will.
    What have you got to lose anyway? Nothing!

    In fact you will gain a lot more, and you might be surprised by the results, in fact i KNOW you will be.

    But don't take my word for it, try it for yourself.

    P.s I'd be interested to know about any interesting results you've had if you do!

    P.p.s The like attracts like theory

    We know that atoms which resonate will affect nearby atoms to resonate at the same frequency, yes?

    We know that in many atomic structures, atoms will form themselves into a pattern or order, sometimes all of a sudden and what might appear spontaneous

    Life is dynamic, it seeks out order in chaos and life itself is a dynamic vibration which creates by increase and duplication

    This life force is indifferent to whether a thought is fear or love. It is indifferent to whether you really want it or not, or whether it is good or bad for you or not. Life has no knowledge of good or bad. It just is.

    So if you emit fearful vibrations from a worried thought which obsesses you. Life will resonate a response to these frequencies you're thought is emitting and you will naturally attract this very thing to you, because what occurs is the duplicity and increase of creation.

    Scientists are starting to realize that our thoughts are not just contained within our brains.

    Our thoughts and feelings extend much further than our bodies and interact with everything around us, including the air we breathe, other peoples thoughts and emotions, and this unseen energy field that some have called 'the zero point energy field' or the 'Orgone' which Wilhelm Reich called it.

    Physicists know that all atoms have an indeterminate nature and therefore a potential to become any thing. We also know that when we view an atom it will become a determined thing.

    Atoms communicate to one another via frequencies.

    The brain emits frequencies through it's activities.

    It's not so weird now to wonder that maybe we can affect surrounding atoms via our particular brain activities is it?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    If a thought or desire is backed with a strong emotion then yes it is possible that it will manifest in the physical.
    But what exactly does this mean? That our thoughts directly influence events outside of our direct senses? How is this even possible? Like I said, I fully agree that strong self belief and a positive attitude will greatly enhance your chances of success, but that is because of the positive motivational effects of these emotions on yourself and others. I would even go so far as to suggest that a group of people that really take The Secret to heart would statistically be more successful than a control group left to their own devices (all things being equal), but that does NOT mean the premise is correct.
    I find myself in much agreement with what you said. Motivation creates results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    It means exactly what it states

    A thought persistently held in the mind and backed up with enough emotion will manifest in the physical world.

    I know some of you will cringe at the term 'magician' but i am going to use it anyway, but by the term magician i mean anyone, including past and present sages seers, prophets, wise people, freemasons, even Jesus himself was a proficient magician, the list of people who know and have utilized this 'trick' is enormous, but it's not really a trick, it's a natural law and it will work for anyone.

    But the reason i use the term 'magician' is because to be able to hold a strong enough thought about something in particular to the exclusion of all other thoughts, fueled with the right amount of emotion which is controlled by the will or intention usually requires a lot of practice and training.

    Try holding a particular conscious thought in your mind and exclude every other thought
    Not easy is it, you might be able to manage it for a minute at the most if you are lucky, but soon your mind will become invaded by many other thoughts, you will notice how chaotic the mind really is (no wonder then our lives often appear chaotic)

    Once you've managed to learn to hold one thought in your mind, now try to invoke an emotion behind it, such as a strong intense desire for that particular thing.
    That's not easy either is it? Because it's not easy to consciously switch on an emotion.

    It's not easy to control our thoughts and emotions, but it's not impossible.
    The reason it's so difficult is because we haven't practiced controlling our thoughts and emotions.

    Normally our thoughts and emotions control us! Thoughts pop into our minds seemingly out of the blue and emotions grip us often uncontrollably.

    Often the case is that we will worry about something, often an irrational fear, and this worry becomes backed up by the emotion of a fearful stomach churning, and the irony here is that i am creating a situation where my fear and worry will come true.
    In fact my obsession with this fearful idea fueled with the feeling of fear and dread will most certainly make that fearful idea come true!

    We attract what we fear!

    Like most definitely attracts like! (I will explain this theory in a bit)

    Most people are experts at doing that, and it feels uncontrollable.

    The secret is to turn the tables on this technique and control our thoughts and feelings.

    Controlling thoughts requires training by using meditation techniques, which most of us are familiar with in theory. All i can suggest is try it and keep on trying, often with these techniques you will feel for some time you are getting nowhere, and then oddly all of a sudden you will begin to get results. The knack here is perseverance.

    Now to get an emotion once you have mastered thought is easy if you are of a religious nature and used to praying, praying automatically focuses on a love for god, but if you are not then here is a technique i do.

    The feeling of love is the necessary emotion required to attract things to you. To get into the groove of love and familiarize yourself with the feeling with the aim of being able to control this feeling and invoke it whenever you wish one of the methods i use is this:

    Think of all the people in your life you love, put an image of them in your mind and focus on how you feel about them, before long you will begin to feel those pangs of love, can you feel it in your body? Where? Usually it is in the stomach or solar plexus. Immerse yourself in this feeling of love and become familiar with it as a feeling.

    Do this often and you will be able to invoke the feeling of love whenever you choose.

    Now imagination is one of the keys to strengthen a thought.

    So for example if you can think of a thought and imagine a visual image connected with that thought and then invoke the feeling of love
    what you are doing is switching on all the necessary components of creation, thought is a subtle vibration or frequency, emotion is a more grosser or solid form of vibration or frequency. The next step in this process is the lowest vibration or frequency into matter on the physical plane.

    This isn't magical or spiritual clap-trap. This is real. This is science and physics.
    Physics is only just becoming aware of the nature of these things that past wise people have known and used for aeons.

    All i can suggest to you is try it?
    The proof is in the pudding so to speak.
    The best scientist and experimenter in regard to this is you.

    If you try to control these irrational fears and worries in order to stop attracting them to you. If you try to control the chaos of mind and thought. If you learn how to invoke love at will.
    What have you got to lose anyway? Nothing!

    In fact you will gain a lot more, and you might be surprised by the results, in fact i KNOW you will be.

    But don't take my word for it, try it for yourself.

    P.s I'd be interested to know about any interesting results you've had if you do!

    P.p.s The like attracts like theory

    We know that atoms which resonate will affect nearby atoms to resonate at the same frequency, yes?

    We know that in many atomic structures, atoms will form themselves into a pattern or order, sometimes all of a sudden and what might appear spontaneous

    Life is dynamic, it seeks out order in chaos and life itself is a dynamic vibration which creates by increase and duplication

    This life force is indifferent to whether a thought is fear or love. It is indifferent to whether you really want it or not, or whether it is good or bad for you or not. Life has no knowledge of good or bad. It just is.

    So if you emit fearful vibrations from a worried thought which obsesses you. Life will resonate a response to these frequencies you're thought is emitting and you will naturally attract this very thing to you, because what occurs is the duplicity and increase of creation.

    Scientists are starting to realize that our thoughts are not just contained within our brains.

    Our thoughts and feelings extend much further than our bodies and interact with everything around us, including the air we breathe, other peoples thoughts and emotions, and this unseen energy field that some have called 'the zero point energy field' or the 'Orgone' which Wilhelm Reich called it.

    Physicists know that all atoms have an indeterminate nature and therefore a potential to become any thing. We also know that when we view an atom it will become a determined thing.

    Atoms communicate to one another via frequencies.

    The brain emits frequencies through it's activities.

    It's not so weird now to wonder that maybe we can affect surrounding atoms via our particular brain activities is it?
    Selene, for me this is disproportionate and psuedoscientific. Consider my first post and points together with some new points:

    * Before life, what was it that percieved things to existence, God? Then what percieved God into existence?

    * What would reality be like if every thought and desire of all animals (including humans, which are animals) sprung out into existence? I suspect very different.

    * How is this natural? Does the brain have some sort of "fate" and "create" mechanism which controls the outcome of others as well as yourself with brainwaves?

    * If everyone in the world sat down and "willed" their hunger away, would it go away?

    * In what way does "old = good"?

    I could make more points, but some of these are pretty similar to my previous post. I myself have meditated many times before going through my karate techniques and such and if I control a certain emotion I will start to feel stronger, almost unstoppable, but truth is that will isn't everything. You actually have to do something to achieve something. Everything has its price. I've tried deep meditation many times where I remove every thought in my mind so I would consider myself pretty experienced with meditation. I am capable to control my emotions and thoughts very good. I remember as a child trying to "will" myself to do things like fly and walk through walls. Even if my concentration was falwless I could never do it. And this all boils down to wishful thinking.

    If two cars drive head to head at a leathal speed and there was a monk on the sideline trying to "will" away the accident, or suppose the accident already happened and the monk tried to "will" the people involved to be allright, do you really think that would be the case? What if the people in the car, unable to prevent a head to head collision calmed down before the crash and tried to think positive and concentrate on getting out of the situation, would they somehow be miraculously saved?

    This theory is actually easily falsifiable. All you need is someone with a lot of experience through meditation who's convinced he/she can bend spoons with his/her mind to prevent something by "willing" it. I'm positive the result would always be a failiure to prevent the situation.

    You can argue all you want about frequency, soundwaves or whatever. There are things at the quantum level which seems fantastic, but at a larger scale things seem to differ. There's a lot we don't understand.

    "Like attracks like" sounds plausible, sounds scientific when elaborated, but is nothing more than wishful thinking, IMHO.

    P.S. I suppose all failiures in my example experiments will be fallaciously assumed to be "inconclusive" because of the nature of experimentation or something. I suppose people who don't get what they want, even if they are really good at meditating and controlling thoughts and emotions will be falsly accused for "not trying hard enough." Even if it's simple to test this theory, the people will probably not accept the results of the experiment and the evidence.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously

    Selene, for me this is disproportionate and psuedoscientific. Consider my first post and points together with some new points:

    * Before life, what was it that percieved things to existence, God? Then what percieved God into existence?
    I don't know any answers to that, this has been a mystery which has puzzled many thinkers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * What would reality be like if every thought and desire of all animals (including humans, which are animals) sprung out into existence? I suspect very different.
    Well you know things don't actually just spring out into existence it doesn't quite work like that because actually everything is already in existence. What happens is that we attract these things already in existence as well as repel
    Thoughts and desires do come into being and are attracted to us through thought.
    Why do you think the world appears chaotic and human behavior often irrational? It's because of this lack of control of thought and people will keep changing their minds!

    Wouldn't it be great if people realise they could influence their lives to such an amazing degree by actually controlling their thoughts and emotions?
    But in the same vein, because life is indifferent to good and bad, people could use this energy to be able to do bad things.
    And it's for this very reason this so called secret has been shrouded in secrecy for such a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * How is this natural? Does the brain have some sort of "fate" and "create" mechanism which controls the outcome of others as well as yourself with brainwaves?
    No it isn't just the brain that does this. The whole body partakes in creation.
    Imagine it as a scale at the top we have the creative impetus, such as when a random thought pops into our minds. Where did this thought come from? Some might say God. This creative mysterious impetus has the highest frequency, a thought has a lower frequency, and emotion an even lower frequency and matter has the lowest.
    By frequency i mean vibration.

    By consciously manifesting this process we are controlling the creative process.

    Matter exists by vibrations or frequencies which resonate between each of the atoms and holds the thing together.
    We know that everything consists of atoms. When we look at matter atomically we see there is little difference apart from the spaces between these atoms and the frequencies these atoms emit depending on the formula of protons and neutrons which constitute the chemical basis of all matter.

    Now a neurologist will tell you that the brain emits various frequencies depending on its activities, which is how electro scanning of the brain is achieved.

    It is my hope that one day they will analyse the way brain activity frequencies correlate with emotional responses. Perhaps they are, i will take a look...

    Emotions emit their own frequencies and when they are attached to a thought, combined, the power of the frequency emitted is magnified.

    What this then becomes is a potent force, but this energy will dissipate unless it is directed or focused externally.

    All these parts are important to the whole operation. In fact it's a delicate operation which requires skill.

    Most thoughts combined with emotion are wasted, like sperm that never quite make it and just dissipate or degenerate.

    Here's an analogy which describes the process well..............

    Imagine a thought as a space rocket. A space rocket is just a sitting duck without some other kind of energy to fire it up and blast it off. This other energy or force necessary behind it is akin to the emotion required behind a thought to make it potent.
    Now the thing that is often neglected in this formula is a lack of direction of will needed for the force of the thought and emotion to hit the desired target.
    Most of the time in human behavior thought and emotion combined acts like one of those crappy garden rockets that fizz out after a few meters or don't even light!

    Without direction your rocket isn't going anywhere! In fact you are more likely to feel pent up or physically exhausted and that's about all!

    It's crucial to propel the thought, fired up by the will into space (outside your self) in a given direction. This direction is re-enforced by the original thought with the emotive intention and is held in a concentrated form within the body, excluding all other thoughts and feelings, whilst expelling this energy from the body.

    Most people do not do this expelling from the body which is why they often feel stressed, frazzled and burnt out, because the energy is dissipating itself inside them. It's got to go somewhere!

    Be careful throwing hate or fear, because, yes, it will probably come back in a bigger dose once life has duplicated it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * If everyone in the world sat down and "willed" their hunger away, would it go away?
    If they follow the correct procedure in order to raise the right kind of energy, then yes, that is very likely.

    Alas most people, such as your good self, think this is all pseudo-scientific crap and therefore won't even bother trying. So be it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * In what way does "old = good"?
    Not quite sure what you mean, but i think you mean perhaps that just because something is old or ancient means its good?

    Well i think we have lost some of the understandings and knowledge from the past due to our obsessions with hard facts and evidence.
    There are some things difficult to prove but still work.
    I think science can have too much of a tendency to dismiss or ignore things which are difficult to test as scientific experiments.
    Old or not, if something works then it deserves at least a look as to why.
    All i can suggest is just to try it for your self before you deny it as poppycook!
    This knowledge is only 'old' because it has been forgotten for so long.
    It's a natural law that has always been there and has never changed, it's just people don't believe it to be so and therefore it has become dis-used, and not only that it was kept a secret because those that knew about it realised it could be used for ill as well as good.
    So now it is becoming common-knowledge one can only hope people will attempt to use it for good.
    But a word of warning, like attracts like, and what we wish for even for another we get ourselves, so if we use it to do bad things then we are ultimately bringing bad and misfortune to ourselves in a much more concentrated dose than we might give another, plus we have to live with what we have done, if the bad-doer has a conscience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I myself have meditated many times before going through my karate techniques and such and if I control a certain emotion I will start to feel stronger, almost unstoppable,
    Excellent, and so you have experienced first hand the power of thought combined with emotion.
    As for the 'unstoppable' be careful you don't create a force bigger than you can control. This force is as real and as powerful as any other natural force.
    A little at a time is good practice, and when you have built up a force make sure you actually do something with it, if you don't make sure you consciously expel it from your body, or else it will build up inside and could do you more harm than good.
    This is how people have nervous-breakdowns and stress related illnesses or even can go mad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    but truth is that will isn't everything. You actually have to do something to achieve something.
    Will is an important ingredient in anything we attempt to do in our lives. Without it we would never be able to achieve anything.
    Of course you have to do 'something'
    The doing is the interaction in the physical plane. Nothing will happen if all we have is a mental wish, we have to draw that thought down through our body, through the emotional and out into the physical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I've tried deep meditation many times where I remove every thought in my mind so I would consider myself pretty experienced with meditation. I am capable to control my emotions and thoughts very good. I remember as a child trying to "will" myself to do things like fly and walk through walls. Even if my concentration was falwless I could never do it. And this all boils down to wishful thinking.
    Well now this is where people fall down with this idea.
    It is excellent that you can meditate and have one thought, because this takes a lot of effort and training to achieve and you are well on your way to achieving your desires if you can combine this thought with emotion.
    But the problem here is that you are trying to do the possible impossible.

    People poopooh this kind of thing because they expect the miraculous to occur. I'm afraid we still exist in a world of many other natural laws such as gravity and mass weight.
    When the miraculous doesn't occur they say it is all rubbish and nonsense.

    Knowing the nature of atoms perhaps there is a possibility we could raise our vibrations and decrease our mass and fly. Some people have claimed to be able to levitate.
    But i should think this capability would take a lifetimes of intense training or maybe more than one life time if you believe such a thing.

    People get disappointed when they ask me about magic and think that i am capable of changing people into frogs or fly to the moon.

    I'm afraid magic is much more ordinary than that!

    Let's stick with the real world and it's possibilities instead. We have to work with what's already available.




    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    If two cars drive head to head at a leathal speed and there was a monk on the sideline trying to "will" away the accident, or suppose the accident already happened and the monk tried to "will" the people involved to be allright, do you really think that would be the case? What if the people in the car, unable to prevent a head to head collision calmed down before the crash and tried to think positive and concentrate on getting out of the situation would somehow be miraculously saved?
    Let's try it!??
    No really, in this situation we have many other natural laws at work.
    This law of being able to affect and attract things is really only one of many and it is not a superior law. It is just another amidst all the others.
    So there are three wills at work here as well as the law of speed and mass. So it is highly likely that once such a thing as this has begun, one or three wills are not going to stop it in its tracks.
    The inevitable will occur!


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    You can argue all you want about frequency, soundwaves or whatever. There are things at the quantum level which seems fantastic, but at a larger scale things seem to differ. There's a lot we don't understand.
    I'm just trying to explain a phenomena and natural law i know to exist.
    I know from experience.
    It's a difficult phenomena to explain, but i'm sure science can reach an explanation if it studied it, because it's real. It's not a figment of the mind or an illusion.

    You of course, as a free-thinking human are at liberty to think and believe what you want, but whether you choose to deny it or not. It isn't going to change it as a fact, it just means you won't be using it to the best of your conscious ability.
    In fact it will still be used by you but unknowingly and unwittingly and there in is great danger to be honest.
    If your life is crap and you keep getting things you wish you didn't, then i can only hope you will re-consider this possibility and at the very least give it a try


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    "Like attracks like" sounds plausible, sounds scientific when elaborated, but is nothing more than wishful thinking, IMHO.
    No, it is a real and observable phenomena which works.
    It is working now in your life, but you are not aware of it. Therefore it operates behind the scenes unconsciously.

    I think you would be surprised if you applied this knowledge consciously how much your life would change.
    But don't expect miracles, just expect ordinary things to take a turn for the better and life not to appear as such a struggle or hard work anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    P.S. I suppose all failiures in my example experiments will be fallaciously assumed to be "inconclusive" because of the nature of experimentation or something. I suppose people who don't get what they want, even if they are really good at meditating and controlling thoughts and emotions will be falsly accused for "not trying hard enough." Even if it's simple to test this theory, the people will probably not accept the results of the experiment and the evidence.
    Just give it a try for a week?

    Some of the successes i've had are

    A book i was seeking for months which was out of print and to no avail suddenly turned up in a charity shop for 25pence after i practiced three rituals to acquire it.

    I have drawn friends and lovers i consciously wanted which i requested

    I have succeeded in securing jobs in the past through applying the technique.

    I have been able to change the weather which was predicted as rain and storms into glorious sunny days when needed.

    I have acquired money and prizes in competitions. My friends always ask me to go to Bingo with them when they go, because i am considered 'lucky' because we always have a win when i have taken time beforehand to request a win.

    There are lots of incidents too many to list, and yes of course this is all difficult to prove because there is always the idea that it could have happened without trying, maybe i was just lucky?

    But i think when luck starts to tip the scales and you achieve so many successful results every time you try, then the probability factor gets a little blurry.
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    Well last night i watched the documentary

    I had never heard of it until Kalster pointed it out.

    And i can say yes, it is the same technique that i am familiar through lots of various work of occultists, mystics and philosophers i have studied.

    I would be v interested if anyone else has watched it or come across these ideas and what they thought.

    P.s I am going to Bingo with my friends tonight and already we have won the top prize and i am wondering now what i will spend it on
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    I'm to lazy to brake up this post so I'm going to use my traditional red colour response

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously

    Selene, for me this is disproportionate and psuedoscientific. Consider my first post and points together with some new points:

    * Before life, what was it that percieved things to existence, God? Then what percieved God into existence?
    I don't know any answers to that, this has been a mystery which has puzzled many thinkers.

    Yes, but the purpose of that question is to point out the obvious flaw in the concept. In my opinion, it is enough to bring the whole concept down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * What would reality be like if every thought and desire of all animals (including humans, which are animals) sprung out into existence? I suspect very different.
    Well you know things don't actually just spring out into existence it doesn't quite work like that because actually everything is already in existence. What happens is that we attract these things already in existence as well as repel
    Thoughts and desires do come into being and are attracted to us through thought.
    Why do you think the world appears chaotic and human behavior often irrational? It's because of this lack of control of thought and people will keep changing their minds!

    Wouldn't it be great if people realise they could influence their lives to such an amazing degree by actually controlling their thoughts and emotions?
    But in the same vein, because life is indifferent to good and bad, people could use this energy to be able to do bad things.
    And it's for this very reason this so called secret has been shrouded in secrecy for such a long time.

    Well, I didn't hear anything about being able to repel. But if that was true, somebody could just "repel" people from not using the secret for bad things.

    Anyhow, the paradox here is conflicting desires or ideas. On the one side, someone want this, on the other someone want something else which contradicts the other idea. For example, someone wants to supress the secret, and someone wants to share the secret. There are four possible outcomes: #1 the one side get's what they want, #2 the other side get's what they want, #3 nothing happens, #4 both get what they want.


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * How is this natural? Does the brain have some sort of "fate" and "create" mechanism which controls the outcome of others as well as yourself with brainwaves?
    No it isn't just the brain that does this. The whole body partakes in creation.
    Imagine it as a scale at the top we have the creative impetus, such as when a random thought pops into our minds. Where did this thought come from? Some might say God. This creative mysterious impetus has the highest frequency, a thought has a lower frequency, and emotion an even lower frequency and matter has the lowest.
    By frequency i mean vibration.

    By consciously manifesting this process we are controlling the creative process.

    Matter exists by vibrations or frequencies which resonate between each of the atoms and holds the thing together.
    We know that everything consists of atoms. When we look at matter atomically we see there is little difference apart from the spaces between these atoms and the frequencies these atoms emit depending on the formula of protons and neutrons which constitute the chemical basis of all matter.

    Now a neurologist will tell you that the brain emits various frequencies depending on its activities, which is how electro scanning of the brain is achieved.

    It is my hope that one day they will analyse the way brain activity frequencies correlate with emotional responses. Perhaps they are, i will take a look...

    Emotions emit their own frequencies and when they are attached to a thought, combined, the power of the frequency emitted is magnified.

    What this then becomes is a potent force, but this energy will dissipate unless it is directed or focused externally.

    All these parts are important to the whole operation. In fact it's a delicate operation which requires skill.

    Most thoughts combined with emotion are wasted, like sperm that never quite make it and just dissipate or degenerate.

    Here's an analogy which describes the process well..............

    Imagine a thought as a space rocket. A space rocket is just a sitting duck without some other kind of energy to fire it up and blast it off. This other energy or force necessary behind it is akin to the emotion required behind a thought to make it potent.
    Now the thing that is often neglected in this formula is a lack of direction of will needed for the force of the thought and emotion to hit the desired target.
    Most of the time in human behavior thought and emotion combined acts like one of those crappy garden rockets that fizz out after a few meters or don't even light!

    Without direction your rocket isn't going anywhere! In fact you are more likely to feel pent up or physically exhausted and that's about all!

    It's crucial to propel the thought, fired up by the will into space (outside your self) in a given direction. This direction is re-enforced by the original thought with the emotive intention and is held in a concentrated form within the body, excluding all other thoughts and feelings, whilst expelling this energy from the body.

    Most people do not do this expelling from the body which is why they often feel stressed, frazzled and burnt out, because the energy is dissipating itself inside them. It's got to go somewhere!

    Be careful throwing hate or fear, because, yes, it will probably come back in a bigger dose once life has duplicated it!

    This all sounds like psuedoscience to me. Things only resonate at the same frequency from what I understand. Say someone wants something, some money, would they get it? No, the only thing that would happen is that their "frequency of thought" resonates with someone who want the same thing. Their frequency might not at all have any impact on them getting money or not, their frequency doesn't attract, it only resonates. Resonation doesn't mean attraction, it just means resonation, and that's why this is sounding psuedoscientific to me. You have some scientific ideas built as a backbone to support another idea which vaguely sounds related which says what this all means, but you're missing the intermediate stage between those two which by now only says "then a miracle occurs."



    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * If everyone in the world sat down and "willed" their hunger away, would it go away?
    If they follow the correct procedure in order to raise the right kind of energy, then yes, that is very likely.

    Alas most people, such as your good self, think this is all pseudo-scientific crap and therefore won't even bother trying. So be it!

    I've even tried to accept Jesus into my heart, as an experiment. I removed all negative feelings I had about christianity and all that it's about and tried honestly and faithfully to accept Jesus into my heart. And as expected when finished with my praying, nothing happened.

    Similarily, trying to sit down convincing myself I'm not hungry by imaginating myself being full and backing that up by a positive emotion wasn't enough to make my hunger go away. There are physical laws in this universe.

    You might argue that I expected the outcomes that were, but at the moment of experimentation I did of course remove any biased feelings or thoughts that could affect the experiment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    * In what way does "old = good"?
    Not quite sure what you mean, but i think you mean perhaps that just because something is old or ancient means its good?

    Well i think we have lost some of the understandings and knowledge from the past due to our obsessions with hard facts and evidence.
    There are some things difficult to prove but still work.
    I think science can have too much of a tendency to dismiss or ignore things which are difficult to test as scientific experiments.
    Old or not, if something works then it deserves at least a look as to why.
    All i can suggest is just to try it for your self before you deny it as poppycook!
    This knowledge is only 'old' because it has been forgotten for so long.
    It's a natural law that has always been there and has never changed, it's just people don't believe it to be so and therefore it has become dis-used, and not only that it was kept a secret because those that knew about it realised it could be used for ill as well as good.
    So now it is becoming common-knowledge one can only hope people will attempt to use it for good.
    But a word of warning, like attracts like, and what we wish for even for another we get ourselves, so if we use it to do bad things then we are ultimately bringing bad and misfortune to ourselves in a much more concentrated dose than we might give another, plus we have to live with what we have done, if the bad-doer has a conscience.

    I can see you don't have a scientific perspective on this, with all do respect. You're actually sounds 100% positive that this not only is a natural law, but that it works as well. Faith is required for such a feat. The only thing I'm doing so far is trying to review all the flaws in this concept. So far, this concept seems to be quite flawed in its base.

    The ancients could only base their conclusions on what they knew at the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I myself have meditated many times before going through my karate techniques and such and if I control a certain emotion I will start to feel stronger, almost unstoppable,
    Excellent, and so you have experienced first hand the power of thought combined with emotion.
    As for the 'unstoppable' be careful you don't create a force bigger than you can control. This force is as real and as powerful as any other natural force.
    A little at a time is good practice, and when you have built up a force make sure you actually do something with it, if you don't make sure you consciously expel it from your body, or else it will build up inside and could do you more harm than good.
    This is how people have nervous-breakdowns and stress related illnesses or even can go mad!

    Yes, supressing feelings is harmful psychologically.

    But the unstoppable thing, it's just a feeling and a motivator. I do reach a limit no matter how "unstoppable" I am.


    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    but truth is that will isn't everything. You actually have to do something to achieve something.
    Will is an important ingredient in anything we attempt to do in our lives. Without it we would never be able to achieve anything.
    Of course you have to do 'something'
    The doing is the interaction in the physical plane. Nothing will happen if all we have is a mental wish, we have to draw that thought down through our body, through the emotional and out into the physical.

    This also, I think, is missing the intermediate stage which I mentioned earlier. But also, an emotion or thought is a part of a physical process. Our consciousness can be explained physically, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    I've tried deep meditation many times where I remove every thought in my mind so I would consider myself pretty experienced with meditation. I am capable to control my emotions and thoughts very good. I remember as a child trying to "will" myself to do things like fly and walk through walls. Even if my concentration was falwless I could never do it. And this all boils down to wishful thinking.
    Well now this is where people fall down with this idea.
    It is excellent that you can meditate and have one thought, because this takes a lot of effort and training to achieve and you are well on your way to achieving your desires if you can combine this thought with emotion.
    But the problem here is that you are trying to do the possible impossible.

    People poopooh this kind of thing because they expect the miraculous to occur. I'm afraid we still exist in a world of many other natural laws such as gravity and mass weight.
    When the miraculous doesn't occur they say it is all rubbish and nonsense.

    Knowing the nature of atoms perhaps there is a possibility we could raise our vibrations and decrease our mass and fly. Some people have claimed to be able to levitate.
    But i should think this capability would take a lifetimes of intense training or maybe more than one life time if you believe such a thing.

    People get disappointed when they ask me about magic and think that i am capable of changing people into frogs or fly to the moon.

    I'm afraid magic is much more ordinary than that!

    Let's stick with the real world and it's possibilities instead. We have to work with what's already available.

    Yes, my example was from when I was younger though. But the talk about how to "raise our vibration" and "decrease our mass and fly", how does this make any sense in a scientific context? Again there's an important intermediate stage missing which explains how you can raise "the vibration" by mere thought and emotion and how this increase in vibration in matter can cause a decrease in mass!

    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    P.S. I suppose all failiures in my example experiments will be fallaciously assumed to be "inconclusive" because of the nature of experimentation or something. I suppose people who don't get what they want, even if they are really good at meditating and controlling thoughts and emotions will be falsly accused for "not trying hard enough." Even if it's simple to test this theory, the people will probably not accept the results of the experiment and the evidence.
    Just give it a try for a week?

    Some of the successes i've had are

    A book i was seeking for months which was out of print and to no avail suddenly turned up in a charity shop for 25pence after i practiced three rituals to acquire it.

    I have drawn friends and lovers i consciously wanted which i requested

    I have succeeded in securing jobs in the past through applying the technique.

    I have been able to change the weather which was predicted as rain and storms into glorious sunny days when needed.

    I thought there was limitations to this law when considering other laws...

    I have acquired money and prizes in competitions. My friends always ask me to go to Bingo with them when they go, because i am considered 'lucky' because we always have a win when i have taken time beforehand to request a win.

    There are lots of incidents too many to list, and yes of course this is all difficult to prove because there is always the idea that it could have happened without trying, maybe i was just lucky?

    But i think when luck starts to tip the scales and you achieve so many successful results every time you try, then the probability factor gets a little blurry.

    There is a common fallacy which goes like this:

    Pray for it (or meditate)
    Wait for it

    Eventually it will or might happen, and you can easily just credit your prayer or meditation for the happening. But what would've happen if you didn't meditate or pray?

    Things are determined by several factors, and the only reason the probability gets blurry is that you consider things that do happen to you, and perhaps ignore some factors involved. What about all the things that could happen, but didn't? This is life, and anything can happen at any given moment.
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