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Thread: Technology: The Modern Pied Piper

  1. #1 Technology: The Modern Pied Piper 
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    Technology: The Modern Pied Piper

    The Pied Piper of Hamelin is a story by Robert Browning detailing a legend regarding the abduction of children from the village of Hamelin in 1284.

    The town of Hamelin was rat infested and the citizens hired a man, who described himself as a rat catcher, to rid them of their rats. The man accepted their offer and used a musical pipe to lure the rats into following him. He led them into the river where they drowned. Despite his success the town reneged and refused to pay him.

    The man later returned to town one Sunday morning; while the citizens were in church he used the musical pipe to lure the town’s children into following him out of town. The children were never seen again.

    Technology is our modern day version of the Pied Piper of Hamelin. Technology has enchanted the Global village, especially the young, with hand-held gadgets and various kinds of digital technology to the extent that reading and intellectual growth has become seriously hindered.

    Sapiens seek titillation and seem to find it foremost in trivial pursuits; technology facilitates those pursuits while simultaneously facilitating a more comfortable standard of living.

    Our lives are filled with clusters of goals to be achieved and means devised to reach those goals. We have proximate goals and ultimate goals that we try to make coherent throughout our lives.

    When we focus our mental prowess on goals and the means for achieving those goals we come face to face with the fact that we spend great quantities of our intellectual energy on means and very little intellectual energy on long range ultimate goals.

    Economics dominates our thought processes in matters of defining goals. We give insufficient intellectual energy toward moral values that will help us set useful long range goals.

    When we examine the matter of means and ends we discover that we have become enchanted with technology as our Idol, it becomes the means to achieve whatever goals we might decide in the future. Technology, however, provides little help in establishing goals that can alleviate our most stressful problems.


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    Interesting analogy Coberst

    I'm always interested in myth and fairy stories, especially different interpretations of.


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    There is a level of technology that becomes very dangerous for the species. It is that level when we humans have the power to easily destroy our self without the intellectual sophistication to prevent that from happening. We have long ago passed that point.

    We do not allow children to drive because they lack the intellectual sophistication to handle such a dangerous situation. We are adolescents with far too much power for our level of sophistication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    There is a level of technology that becomes very dangerous for the species. It is that level when we humans have the power to easily destroy our self without the intellectual sophistication to prevent that from happening. We have long ago passed that point.

    We do not allow children to drive because they lack the intellectual sophistication to handle such a dangerous situation. We are adolescents with far too much power for our level of sophistication.
    Well yeah

    I kind of agree with that

    I think mankind has neglected other elements to his nature in the pursuit for technology
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    The analogy does not completely work unless the first part of the story is fulfilled. How would you account for the original deceit of the superiors? Just the luring of the children part is not enough to declare a post based off of this analogy. Nevertheless, this is true. The idiots I see day today are too entangled with their "IPods" to actually think. Modern technology is a means to mental laziness. A philosopher once said that one can only achieve great thoughts whilst no one but yourself. Many years ago, people with great minds had nothing to do but think and think, until works like Moby Dick appeared. Now, those with great potential end up being nothing but another human due to all of these distractions; this to me is the reason why there seems to have been a great decline in great writers over the past few centuries.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    There is a level of technology that becomes very dangerous for the species. It is that level when we humans have the power to easily destroy our self without the intellectual sophistication to prevent that from happening. We have long ago passed that point.

    We do not allow children to drive because they lack the intellectual sophistication to handle such a dangerous situation. We are adolescents with far too much power for our level of sophistication.
    Well yeah

    I kind of agree with that

    I think mankind has neglected other elements to his nature in the pursuit for technology
    In the natural sciences new ideas are given quick evaluation by many because there is often money-in-it. In the human sciences new ideas must wait generations before many evaluate them because there is little money in it. Therein lay the reason that or technology far out paces our ability in the human sciences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    The analogy does not completely work unless the first part of the story is fulfilled. How would you account for the original deceit of the superiors? Just the luring of the children part is not enough to declare a post based off of this analogy. Nevertheless, this is true. The idiots I see day to day are too entangled with their "IPods" to actually think. Modern technology is a means to mental laziness. A philosopher once said that one can only achieve great thoughts whilst no one but yourself. Many years ago, people with great minds had nothing to do but think and think, until works like Moby Dick appeared. Now, those with great potential end up being nothing but another human due to all of these distractions; this to me is the reason why there seems to have been a great decline in great writers over the past few centuries.
    There is a solution however. I suggest that adults become self-actualizing self-learners. We can no longer afford the luxury of storing our intellects in the attic with our year-book when our school daze are over.
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    We can no longer afford the luxury of storing our intellects in the attic with our year-book when our school daze are over.
    Definitely true. People only initially study hard in school so that they can go to their prestigious schools, hence allowing them to acquire a large amount of money in the future. Once they graduate from college, they go into their job and specialize in it, only using what they learned previously in the form of a diploma to get the job they want. This specialization tends to neglect everything in life that is actually important; really, how many professional philosophers are there? The only intellectual field that you can go into that can make you some money is physics. I have a friend who used to work as a coordinator for physicist "think tanks", where a council would choose the most brilliant and appropriate people for the job, and give them a large space on a compound to work for a couple of months to a couple of years on a problem. Apparently, if you are hired as one of these people you receive a salary of over $150,000 a year, just to think. Now this, would be a great job of sorts, but I am no where near intelligent enough in physics to do this. I think my theoretical skills are very high, but without insane math abilities no one seems to take you seriously.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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    I think that our very serious problem is one of morality. In my view morality is about the relationship between humans. We have in the last century spent very little intellectual energy toward moral problems; at least it is minor compared to the energy expended in pursuing technology.

    Because we have not learned to live together and because we have developed the technical means to easily destroy both our species and perhaps even our planet we cannot any longer enjoy the luxury of apathy regarding morality.

    The only solution I see is that we must develop a much greater degree of intellectual sophistication so that we can comprehend our problem and perhaps also find solutions.

    This requires that adults quickly become learners. We have little time to waste. We adults must become self-actualizing self-learners. We must develop a hobby that might be called ‘getting an intellectual life’. Adults can no longer store their intellects, with their year book, in the attic when their formal education ends.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by coberst
    The only solution I see is that we must develop a much greater degree of intellectual sophistication so that we can comprehend our problem and perhaps also find solutions.
    We could do better, I agree. But I don't believe "living together" can ever be perfected. This is one of life's laws. Rats riot, ants wage war, sticklebacks speciate. And your programme Coberst cultivates differences, which I think contradicts "living together" if it doesn't legitimize militancy! So the ultimate solution is to get each other out of range. The New World did it for a while... thanks to technology. Next step, is off the planet and out of interests, which I guess will take a few centuries... again that's technology buying time, if we can make the leap.

    Personally, I don't mind suspending what I believe true, for the greater cause of harmony (e.g. conformity). I wouldn't kill or die for mere personal beliefs, least of all the "intellectually sophisticated" ones. But I'll bet even those arguing we must co-operate to survive, cannot "stoop" to sheepdom. They may kill and die.
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    We will never gain a higher level of intellectual sophistication until religion is eliminated, which will never happen. Theists usually tend to think in a way that neglects the need to achieve greatness "in this world". Most think that greatness will come to them after being admitted to this heaven of theirs. They seem to think that they need to do nothing but submit to stupidity in order to get to a higher level; they believe that they will be enlightened upon reaching heaven and must do nothing else. While, atheists know that only you are capable of allowing yourself to reach enlightenment and understanding. Because of this, people like me have a great will to get as far as we can before we die, because if we do nothing, nothing will even happen; you only have 90 (or so....depends on how much fish you eat) years, you should use it well before time runs out.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    We will never gain a higher level of intellectual sophistication until religion is eliminated, which will never happen. Theists usually tend to think in a way that neglects the need to achieve greatness "in this world".
    Where is your evidence for this statement? Keep in mind that most of the great scientist throughout history were theists.
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    Where is your evidence for this statement? Keep in mind that most of the great scientist throughout history were theists.
    throughout history is the key point, back in the day the idea of god held some power. but it is has often been a hindrance to science.
    for example investigating the vacuum was forbidden as the existence of nothing was impossible.
    or on the discovery of the light spectrum an imaginary colour indigo was added to make seven colours even though it has never been detected.

    modern scientists have theories that mean god is no longer necessary. throughout history there have been great scientists but there ideas are often now disproved
    everything is mathematical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    Where is your evidence for this statement? Keep in mind that most of the great scientist throughout history were theists.
    throughout history is the key point, back in the day the idea of god held some power. but it is has often been a hindrance to science.
    for example investigating the vacuum was forbidden as the existence of nothing was impossible.
    And yet somehow the vacuum got investigated.
    or on the discovery of the light spectrum an imaginary colour indigo was added to make seven colours even though it has never been detected.
    What does that have to do with theists? You can split the spectrum up into as many colors as you want. It's continuous.

    modern scientists have theories that mean god is no longer necessary. throughout history there have been great scientists but there ideas are often now disproved
    And you believe that atheist scientists will discover theories that will never be disproven?
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    Religion is not all bad. It can tell us e.g. how to behave morally towards each other. Ethics is not within the scope of science. Science can enable us to build atomic and nuclear weapons, but it cannot tell us how to use them responsibly – that is the job of religion.
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    Haha, do you know why? Because 95% of the people in America, not the world are theists. In the world, its more like 99%, due to the sheer number of uneducated people. So....there is a pretty obvious reason why the majority of great scientists were theists. And, I said usually, italicized intentionally; I never said scientists, what I said targeted the general populace.

    Yes, the vacuum was eventually investigated because either the theists in command were overthrown, or the theists scientists began to use their brains. No matter what, religion once again showed its ugly face and how detrimental it is to everything around us.

    It has to do with theists because 7 is considered a "special" number by theists. Originally we reasonably deduced that there are 6 main colors in the spectrum....but then a bunch of theists came along with their bibles and therefore without their brains, and declared that there must be 7 only because its a divine number in their little book of stories.

    Are you sure JaneBennet? How to behave morally.......one of the main arguments of theists. Lets just say that you were paralyzed a couple of months ago, and now want to show your determination to the world by competing in a form of the special Olympics. You get to the racetrack in your wheel chair but do not feel well. You know (due to circumstances) that this is your only chance to do this....so you call up your engineer friend and have him put a silent electric motor on your wheel chair. The gun fires, and 25 seconds later you win the race, seemingly by yourself, by a long shot. Everyone comes up to you, congratulates you, and tells you that you are an inspiration to the disabled worldwide. Now, how would you feel? Would you actually accept their praise and feel like you have accomplished something?; or would you feel sad that you did not really win the race?

    When a theists accomplishes something through their laws, it is through fear. Fear that they will not go to heaven and will go to hell. "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself"-FDR. Fear causes infinitely more problems than it resolves.

    And also, do you realize that the writers of the bible were philosophers? What they wrote is not all bad; many of the morals that you speak of are good. BUT, they are NOT the word of god. They are the word of men...men that wanted to make a better world but could not see what detriments would entail through their methods of doing so. Think about it, how far can reading a book of morals and laws get you? First, compare yourself to an atheists with the same or higher level morals. Do you realize how drastically, dare to say superior, an atheists is to a theist with the same morals? One was, like a little kid, threated to have their candy taken away should they not follow the rules, and the other in a void was able to create from nothing all morals and laws that they know today through logic alone. Who do you want to be? The little kid whose mommy threatens to take away their candy?; or a big boy who can deduce self efficiently how to be a good person?

    Look at president Bush's speech concerning going to Iraq. He mentioned......rotfl, that GOD, his little buddy and safety blanket, told him that we need to invade Iraq to bring democracy. Any one here that actually believes that god told him that is a dumb f*k. And look, people believed him and now we are in Iraq killing off their population. While that may not directly pertain to the discussion at hand, my point is that even if you naively regard these morals in the bible, the negative consequences of religion heavily outweigh the positive ones.

    If every citizen was a self made atheist, then we would multiply our scientific and philosophical progression by 1000X. Theists just want to waste their lives away and die so that they can do whatever in heaven, and because of this most of the population just does not care. In an environment of atheists though, the majority of people would want to progress the world as far as possible, and would do so efficiently since they only have so much time to live.

    Yes JaneBennet, science can easily describe how think ethically. Philosophy has a large section called metaphysics. That word means, physics of the mind. Note the word physics, and therefore science. Philosophy is mathematical..unfortunately most people cannot see that. Every aspect of the way we think is based on math. Science is the study of applied math and yes, can create morals and ethics. My morals and ethics have only arisen from my parents and through discrete math. Only 5% of what I know today came from my parents, leaving 95% to myself. And, since I am not based on a set book of fairy tales, my morals are evolving and improving themselves every day. A book is limited, but logic is limitless.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Are you sure JaneBennet? How to behave morally.......one of the main arguments of theists. Lets just say that you were paralyzed a couple of months ago, and now want to show your determination to the world by competing in a form of the special Olympics. You get to the racetrack in your wheel chair but do not feel well. You know (due to circumstances) that this is your only chance to do this....so you call up your engineer friend and have him put a silent electric motor on your wheel chair. The gun fires, and 25 seconds later you win the race, seemingly by yourself, by a long shot. Everyone comes up to you, congratulates you, and tells you that you are an inspiration to the disabled worldwide. Now, how would you feel? Would you actually accept their praise and feel like you have accomplished something?; or would you feel sad that you did not really win the race?
    Huh??

    What has that got to do with what I said?

    Quote Originally Posted by I
    Religion is not all bad. It can tell us e.g. how to behave morally towards each other. Ethics is not within the scope of science. Science can enable us to build atomic and nuclear weapons, but it cannot tell us how to use them responsibly – that is the job of religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Haha, do you know why? Because 95% of the people in America, not the world are theists. In the world, its more like 99%, due to the sheer number of uneducated people. So....there is a pretty obvious reason why the majority of great scientists were theists. And, I said usually, italicized intentionally; I never said scientists, what I said targeted the general populace.
    I asked you for evidence, not ignorant supposition. You said theists are not motivated to achieve greatness in this world, because they are too focused on the hereafter. I could just as well put forth the equally ignorant supposition that atheists would be too focused on sinful, hedonistic pleasures to ever accomplish anything. Now you prove your ignorant supposition is better than my ignorant supposition.
    Yes, the vacuum was eventually investigated because either the theists in command were overthrown, or the theists scientists began to use their brains. No matter what, religion once again showed its ugly face and how detrimental it is to everything around us.
    Prove it. I could just as well say that Kepler made his discoveries about the planets because he was motivated to discover God's plan. Therefore religion greatly enhanced scientific discovery. Now, prove your version and disprove mine.

    It has to do with theists because 7 is considered a "special" number by theists. Originally we reasonably deduced that there are 6 main colors in the spectrum....but then a bunch of theists came along with their bibles and therefore without their brains, and declared that there must be 7 only because its a divine number in their little book of stories.
    Newton named it because he thought he perceived a color between blue and violet. The only controversy about it is whether it matches the color of the dye indigo. How are you saying it impeded science? Where are you getting these wacky stories from?
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    Wow! Well, after what I've read, I'd rather be a theist now - which I'm not. At the end of the day, it is all a matter of respect. And what "Cold Fusion" here demonstrates is totally absent of it. Hey, you morally superior being, what is your justification of insulting people so harshly? I agree that logic should always prevail over belief and dogmatics. But it is also dogmatic to claim that non-believers are always superior to believers. In my view, this is not true. Maybe you've read too much Nietzsche? Tried it, didn't like it. The other thing is: math - at least the kind that we know of - has only little to do with nature. In my opinion, it only exists in our minds; it is only an idealisation of reality and a good tool to investigate it. Not more.

    Back to the original topic: I agree that generally little effort is currently made to think about real values in life. Everything seems to be governed by materialism and usefulness. I don't like to be judged because of my "usefulness". Well, I have studied Physics, but only in order to learn how Nature works; not how to use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Wow! Well, after what I've read, I'd rather be a theist now - which I'm not. At the end of the day, it is all a matter of respect. And what "Cold Fusion" here demonstrates is totally absent of it. Hey, you morally superior being, what is your justification of insulting people so harshly? I agree that logic should always prevail over belief and dogmatics. But it is also dogmatic to claim that non-believers are always superior to believers.
    I totally agree! Just because Cold Fusion does not approve of other people’s way of thinking, what gives him the right to claim to be morally superior to them?

    That was the point I was making in my post – just because you don’t like religion does not imply everything to do religion is black and evil. Take the Bible, for example. I, for one, am no great fan of it. But there are passages in the Bible that tell us to love and respect one another as human being – and surely I can’t have anything against these morally uplifting passages?
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    -It is a direct metaphor for how you take certain situations.

    -Ignorant supposition? How is that ignorant? What I said is a fact. A national pole was taken to determine the number of theists and atheists in America. How could there be any bias? There is no reason to lie about that statistic.

    -And why would atheists be focused on "sinful, hedonistic pleasures"? You once again say it is ignorant to say that; I obtained that information through conversing with my theists friends and parents. I have over 120 theist acquaintances, most if not all of which either directly implied or told me that. Besides the empirical evidence, any one with at least marginal ability in psychology should be able to determine that.

    -I am only going by what organic god said (about the vacuum); if you have a problem with that statement, go to him, not me.

    -To discover gods plan? Even if that is true, an atheist would still have at least slightly more motivation.

    -I learned from multiple sources, including 3 of my high school teacher that indigo was added only because it would make the number of colors 7. You cannot deny that 7 is considered a divine number.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo

    In religion
    God rested on and sanctified the seventh day (Sabbath).
    God rested on and sanctified the seventh day (Sabbath).

    * In Judaism:
    o A highly symbolic number in the Torah, alluding to the infusion of spirituality and Godliness into the Creation. For example:
    1. God rested on and sanctified the seventh day (Shabbat).
    2. A seven-day purification period is required for one who has become tamei to become tahor.
    3. The Shmita (Sabbatical) year arrives every seventh year.
    4. The Jubilee (Yovel) year comes after 7 times 7 years.
    5. The Counting of the Omer leading up to the Giving of the Torah is expressed as "7 times 7 weeks."
    6. Shiv`a (another pronunciation of the Hebrew word for 7 -- (Hebrew: שבעה ; "seven")), is the number of days of mourning. Hence, one sits Shiva. As in Shiva (Judaism)
    o The weekly Torah portion is divided into seven aliyahs, and seven men or boys over the age of 13 are called up for the reading of these aliyahs during Shabbat morning services.
    o Seven blessings are recited under the chuppah during a Jewish wedding ceremony.
    o A Jewish bride and groom are feted with seven days of festive meals after their wedding, known as Sheva Berachot ("Seven Blessings").
    o The number of Ushpizzin (also known as the "Seven Shepherds") who visit the sukkah during the holiday of Sukkot: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, and David.
    o The number of nations God told the Israelites they would displace when they entered the land of Israel (Deut. 7:1): the Hittite, the Girgashite, the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
    o In Breslov tradition, the seven orifices of the face (2 eyes, 2 nostrils, 2 ears, and the mouth) are called "The Seven Candles."
    o The menorah (Hebrew: מנורה), is a seven branched candelabrum lit by olive oil in the Tabernacle and the Temple in Jerusalem. The menorah is one of the oldest symbols of the Jewish people. It is said to symbolize the burning bush as seen by Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 25).
    o The number of times Cain will be avenged by God if he is murdered (Gen 4:15).
    o The Israelites circled Jericho for 7 days and then the wall tumbled down.
    o Yahweh or Jehovah is the divine name, whose letters' placed alphabetically equal 70, a product of the divine number 7.

    * In Christianity:
    o The Seven Sacraments in the Christian faith (though some traditions assign a different number).
    o The Seven churches of Asia to which the "Book of Revelation" is addressed.
    o The Seven Joys of the Virgin Mary, of Roman Catholic, Anglican, and other traditions.
    o The Seven Sorrows of the Virgin Mary, of Roman Catholic, Anglican, and other traditions.
    o The Seven Corporal Acts of Mercy of Roman Catholic, Anglican, and other traditions.
    o The Seven Spiritual Acts of Mercy of Roman Catholic, Anglican, and other traditions.
    o The Seven last words (or seven last sayings) of Jesus on the cross.
    o The Seven Virtues: chastity, moderation, liberality, charity, meekness, zeal, and humility.
    o The Seven deadly sins: lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride.
    o The seven terraces of Mount Purgatory (one per deadly sin).
    o In the genealogy in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus is 77th in a direct line.
    o The number of heads of the three beasts 7*10*7+7*10*10+7*10=1260 of the Book of Revelation, and of some other monsters, like the hydra and the number of seals.
    o In the New Testament, the Gospel of Matthew 18:21, Jesus says to Peter to forgive seventy times seven times.[2]

    * In Islam:
    o The number of ayat in surat al-Fatiha.
    o The number of heavens in Islamic tradition.
    o The number of Earths in Islamic tradition.
    o The number of circumambulations (Tawaf) that are made around the Kaaba
    o The number of walks {Al-Safa and Al-Marwah) that is travelling back and forth seven times during the ritual pilgrimages of Hajj and Umrah.
    o The number of fires in hell. i.e the 7 fires of hell.
    o The number of doors to heaven and hell is also seven.
    o The total number of Prophets sent by God are 124000. The sum of 1+2+4=7.
    o The number of followers to fight along side Jesus Christ and Imam Mehdi against the anti-Christ/dajjal is 313. the sum 0f 3+1+3=7.
    o The number 786 which in Islam is also used to denote "in the Name of Allah" sums 7+8+6=21 divisible by 7.
    * Others:
    o The number of Archangels according to some systems.
    o The minor symbol number of yang from the Taoist yin-yang.
    o The number of palms in an Egyptian Sacred Cubit.
    o The number of ranks in Mithraism.
    o The number seven is of particular significance within Cherokee cosmology.
    o In Buddhism, Buddha walked 7 steps at his birth.

    * In Hinduism:
    o The Sanskrit word 'sapta' refers to number seven.
    o The Indian Music has 'sapta swaras', means seven octats (sa re ga ma pa dha ni), which are basics of music, using which hundreds of Ragas are composed.
    o Celestial group of seven stars are named as 'Sapta Rishi' based on the seven great saints.
    o Seven Promises, Seven Rounds in Hindu Wedding and Seven Reincarnation
    o As per Hindu mythology, there are seven worlds in the universe, seven seas in the world and seven Rishies (seven gurus) called sapta rishis.
    o seven hills at tirumala also known as ezhu malaiyan means Sevenhills god



    Deny that seven is a divine number by religious views!!!!!!

    There were originally six colors accepted by science, but then they made it seven in order to "complete" the color spectrum.

    Dishmaster; I am not one to hold back on a little kids wrongdoings only because of their age. I say it the way it is regardless of how the other person will feel about it. We should all learn to accept our shortcomings. When I am insulted, I usually do not immediately disregard it; I evaluate it and see if they are correct, and whether or not I need to correct myself.

    I never outright said that I am morally superior, I only presented it as an idea to think about.

    Nietzsche was a great writer.

    The universe in a sense, would not exist without entities to perceive it. This perception, is always ultimately mathematical. Everything can be broken down to math, most people just cannot see it.

    Yes! I READ the entire bible as a work a literature. As a story, I think it is very good; the problems arise when people take it literally. As I said, it was written by philosophers under their own free will. If you were to call it, "The book of philosophical understanding" then I would not have much against it. Sure, most of it I do not agree with (If you could call it agreeing), but there are sections that do have some very good values. I am only saying that it is considerably better if you arrive at these values yourself; if you do so, then you are infinitely adaptable to your environment.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Woah. Go easy with that numerology evidence magic-man!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Deny that seven is a divine number by religious views!!!!!!
    I thought it was 3. :? Say! Isn't the colour wheel a kind of trini-- - oh never mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Woah. Go easy with that numerology evidence magic-man!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Deny that seven is a divine number by religious views!!!!!!
    I thought it was 3. :? Say! Isn't the colour wheel a kind of trini-- - oh never mind.
    Number MAGIC is a human invention in order to allocate ideas to numbers and their combinations.

    The numbers and their combinations become symbolic of more than what is initially evident and are used alone as representations and together as formula.

    Three can symbolize the trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Which is very patriarchal, old fashioned and unbalanced.
    What it really symbolizes is the formula 1+2=3

    That is the relationship of two things produces a third e.g
    Mother+Father=son/daughter

    Or the relationship between any two things even a material object produces an essence or a something between them which is neither the one or the other and so could be called the nature of the relationship.

    seven is simply this formula applied to earth.

    three is the relationship between things which produces the 'spirit' of that relationship.

    Four is the number of the square with it's four corners as well as being symbolic of earth and the four elements.

    Four and seven together combined = bringing the spirit to earth
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    Cold Fusion,

    You still have not offered any evidence. You said atheists would accomplish more than theists because the theists are worrying more about the afterlife. Yet we know that many theists have accomplished great things during their time on earth. That is why your statement was a supposition. It is ignorant because you have no facts to support it.

    Just exactly why is 6 colors objectively more logical or rational than 7 colors?
    Six has its numerological significance too. Is this why you are arguing in favor of six colors?

    Six represents equilibrium; harmony - balance. It is the perfect number within the decad: 1+2+3=6. It is the most productive of all numbers.

    It symbolizes union of polarity, the hermaphrodite being represented by the two interlaced triangles, the upward- pointing as male, fire and the heavens, and the downward-pointing as female, the waters and the earth.

    Six is the symbol of luck; love; health; beauty; chance. It is a winning number at the throw of the dice in the West.

    There are six rays of the solar wheel and there are six interlaced triangles. There are six pointed stars or Seal of Solomon - and Star of David
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    There are allot of these divine numbers. As you can see though, 7 is a particular one.

    Because it was unnecessary to make it 7. It was only added for religious significance. The similarities between indigo and violet are too great.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color

    Notice that they do not include indigo on their main color chart.

    Yes, many theists! Thats because science allows for both to participate. There are allot of great theist scientists, because what they studied did not disprove the existence of god, or they did not believe that it did. Take 100 theists. Because of not caring about "this life" only 5 become scientists in order to study this world. Then take 100 atheists; because of their knowledge that they will only live once, 50 decide to become scientists in order to study the universe. I am saying that a far greater number of people would be scientists, or like me and you, if the entire population was composed of atheists. I have a couple of atheist friends (only because there are very few here......unfortunately); they are all very advanced in philosophy and science. My theist friends on the other hand could care less about anything significant. I mean, not one cares about science or philosophy; they are only waiting to die so that they can reside in some world forever.

    (Truth edited out...so that I do not make too many enemies too quickly here)
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    There are allot of these divine numbers. As you can see though, 7 is a particular one.

    Because it was unnecessary to make it 7. It was only added for religious significance. The similarities between indigo and violet are too great.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color

    Notice that they do not include indigo on their main color chart.
    The article also says "The color table should not be interpreted as a definitive list – the pure spectral colors form a continuous spectrum, and how it is divided into distinct colors is a matter of culture, taste, and language." so that doesn't exactly make your case that religion impeded science, does it?
    I am saying that a far greater number of people would be scientists, or like me and you, if the entire population was composed of atheists. I have a couple of atheist friends (only because there are very few here......unfortunately); they are all very advanced in philosophy and science. My theist friends on the other hand could care less about anything significant. I mean, not one cares about science or philosophy; they are only waiting to die so that they can reside in some world forever.
    But, you see, that is only an anecdote. You cannot draw any scientific conclusion from an anecdote. I happen to know some religious people who are very good scientists. What does that prove? Even if you proved a statistical correlation, you would still be a long way from proving causation.
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    Its not as much that it impeded science, only that it altered it without necessity. Violet and indigo are just too similar; small things lead to big things. Even small stupidities of religion are inexcusable.

    It is only a logical fact! We cannot prove it because such a situation could never come into play. I can't say EXACTLY how many more scientists we would have, but i know it would be quite a few more. If you disagree, then there is nothing else to say.

    And I'm glad that you know theists that are very good scientists; if you didn't, then we would still be in the dark ages! But luckily, brave people came forth and ended that through great sacrifice. These people, OPPOSED RELIGION, not the idea of an after life as much, but the people who believed in all these nonsensical scripts. And then, they were killed brutally by the theists. Nails through their tongs, hands, knees, skulls.....being skinned alive...you know, all of the great things that religion has brought to this world. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE RELIGION FOR WHAT IT DID!!! My heart gores out to all those great people who opposed religion throughout the ages. And remember, there are only so many recorded events; considerably more exist that we do not know about.

    Remember those who died in the fight for freedom, the fight against religion.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    You do know that Copernicus was actively religious? Even dedicated his book to the Pope... no contradiction there either. What is this myth of scientific progress vs. the church you're painting Cold Fusion?

    I can just imagine Galileo in a Che Guevara shirt. Sure.
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    It is true.

    I know there were many scientists that were theists, and may have worked on physics and philosophy 'in the name of god' , but, if they were atheists they would have had even more motivation. Thats not to say that they switch from theism to atheism in the middle of their lives; I am talking about being brought up in a world where religion is non-existent, where the idea of a heaven is considered an obscene thought.

    The dark ages you know, were caused by religion. The burning of the library of Alexandria, caused by religion (History channel, not Wikipedia). There were countless times throughout history where the ignorant church said no, such as with Galileo.

    EVEN IF, I was wrong about religion hindering science, then you still have to consider it in of itself. It is ridiculously stupid!!! Done! Nothing else to say! 99% believe complete nonsensical crap! Its sad really. BUT, my fight is mostly with the theists, not the agnostics. I do not like either because of their views, but at least agnostics do not declare anything but the possibility of a god and afterlife. I have heard theists say the damn stupidest things you could ever imagine! Like one time, when I heard one of them say, "Oh look at the beautiful sky tonight....god must have had fun painting in the sky". AND THIS FUC**NG MORON WAS SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF THEISTS YOU GUYS DEAL WITH, BUT THE ONES HERE ARE.....ARE.......(Insert everything bad and beyond). Thats why I hate them so damn much! The shear idiocy!!!! Its hard to comprehend! I'm glad it seems like no one here has met people like this...I could never wish that on someone! It HURTS to hear them talk!
    At least I have never heard an agnostic make a dumb**** statement like that! Only dumb statements, without the ****. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    It is true.

    I know there were many scientists that were theists, and may have worked on physics and philosophy 'in the name of god' , but, if they were atheists they would have had even more motivation.
    I thought it was only the theists who believed things without any evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A flaky theist
    Oh look at the beautiful sky tonight....god must have had fun painting in the sky.
    That is pretty goofy. Or maybe you could hear it as a sort of secret agent codephrase, like "Do you know of one good barber?" and then you answer, "In Geneva there are three." What for? To feel you out? These agents must be wary of enemy agents. So I think they'd do well to employ harsh tests like that quoted above. How did you react?
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    I told them that it is actually due to Raleigh scattering, and the angle of incidence of the light. They stared at me....so I offered to teach them about the effect. They immediately changed the subject as to avoid enlightenment.


    Harold; the dark ages, around 1000 years of oppression by the church, a scar to our history and the human race. There were other factors, but most of it was caused by religion and the church. In this context, I am not saying that each individual directly led to the it; I am saying that the existence of religion means that a church (After 5,000 BC....maybe even 10,000) exists, if a church exists then there will inevitably be people who are in power such as the "high priests". Power corrupts-this corruption leads to greed and enough selfish resolve, that you will not let one circumstance hinder your path to unlimited wealth and control. These people were those who said things like, "If they do not have bread, then let them eat cake". People without any compassion for their people, people who used religion to suppress the populace. They would have said things like, "Well, god put me in power; if you defy me, then you defy god, hence preventing you form going to heaven", or, "God wants you people to be poor. It proves to him that you are worthy of going to heaven", and, "You know if get killed during this crusade, you are guaranteed a spot in heaven". Don't you see how easy it is for these people to mold peoples minds? Almost undoubtedly, all theists here want to go to heaven...and possibly (understatement) are only theists so that they can go to heaven.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    I told them that it is actually due to Raleigh scattering, and the angle of incidence of the light... They immediately changed the subject
    Um, no. You changed the subject. The subject was not God, or atmospheric phenomena. Read between the lines.

    :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Harold; the dark ages, around 1000 years of oppression by the church, a scar to our history and the human race. There were other factors, but most of it was caused by religion and the church.
    You keep stating your opinion as if it were fact.
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    How is that my opinion? Not only is there allot of individual evidence that you can put together to get that, but there have also been countless documentaries stating religion as one of the main causes. You just deny it.

    About my lack of evidence. Everyone needs to realize something; sometimes you can say nothing but, "It is only logical". Many times I have to say this due to the circumstances. Lets just say that you see a helicopter hovering 100ft above you, and you tell a friend. Everyone else agrees that it is also there, yet your friends denies it. What else is there to say? Every sense that you possess informs you of its existence, and so does every logical conclusion that you can come to. You hear it, see it, a large amount of air pressure is hailing down upon you, and you therefore conclude that it is there! If he denies it, then all you can do is let him believe what he wants to believe. The same goes for some of my statements. Sure, everyone can say this just as I am, but I have proof in my life that my logic works! The list is countless, but part of it is knowing that Bush would destroy America, predicting dozens of inventions and innovations, knowing the true nature behind many people I have met in my life, and running mental simulations of future events that proved out to be correct. To add to that, I only started to actually read philosophy around 2 years ago. During my reading, I found that I had already said most of the things that the great philosophers had said! In that sense, I am on the level of Plato, Kant, and Thoreau combined! Though of course their method of articulation is superior to mine, our ideas are very similar.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    You are going to deny it, and likely discredit all of wikipedia just to get yourself out of this, but here is the evidence you want so badly.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_ages


    "Classical Antiquity, so long considered the "dark" age for its lack of Christianity, was now seen by Petrarch as the age of "light" because of its cultural achievements, while Petrarch's time, lacking such cultural achievements, was seen as the age of darkness."

    "It was a drive to restore what Protestants saw as a "purer" Christianity. In response to these attacks, Roman Catholic reformers developed a counter image, depicting the age as a period of social and religious harmony, and not "dark" at all." -Ha! The bastards thought that it was a good time period! NO ATHEISTS THINKS THAT; IT TAKES A THEIST.

    "During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, religion "was seen as antithetical to reason. Because the Middle Ages were seen as the "Age of Faith", it was seen as a period contrary to reason, and thus contrary to the Age of Reason. Immanuel Kant and Voltaire were two Enlightenment writers who were vocal in attacking the religiously dominated Middle Ages as a period of social decline." Yes, destroy more of your sources! Discredit so many great thinkers so that in the future, you are instantly burned away during your arguments!

    Do you realize how many ties Kant has to other great thinkers? THE TREMENDOUS CHAIN OF PEOPLE THE HE REPRESENTS. If you discredit him, then you discredit hundreds of other intelligent people. Can you do it?

    "The Middle Ages were seen with romantic nostalgia as a period of social and environmental harmony and spiritual inspiration." Obviously the people who thought this were morons, but note the part, 'spiritual inspiration'.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    Okay, so your evidence is "countless documentaries" and a Wikipedia article about the dark ages. Except when you find an opinion that disagrees with yours, then the wikipedia article is not evidence, it is just a ridiculous opinion.

    Has it ever occurred to you that the people making the documentaries might have a viewpoint of their own? Has it occurred to you that the age of enlightenment was not an age of atheism?

    If you think that religion is the cause of all the problems you cite, you should be able to show how much better life has been whenever atheists are running things. Like, say, the Soviet Union, Mao's China, and Pol Pot's regime. No, stop, I already know what you are going to say about them. They weren't true atheists, right?
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    Atheists do not as much attack the idea of a god existing, but rather attack the stupidity behind believing something that so obviously does not exist. If Jesus appeared right in front of me right now, and told me that he is the son of god, god exists, and heaven exists, then, well, I guess I would believe him (I do not hallucinate or take drugs, so it would most likely be real). If he gave me unquestionable evidence, then I would accept those things. I would not be angry in any way, nor would I deceive myself into thinking that his objective evidence is subjective. IF GOD EXISTED, THEN I WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIM. This is a point that theists do not understand. Theists dislike if not often hate atheists because they do not believe in their s***. The idea of people not going along with it, and actually disproving what they base their lives on could not infuriate them more. Atheists only hate what these unproven beliefs have done for the world. If they are true, what are you going to do about it? If we all knew that god is real, then we would not continue to be atheists just for the sake of being an atheist! I am an atheists because I am logical; I saw long ago that absolutely no logic resides in religion, which is why I stopped pursuing it after I turned five and gained a consciousness.

    Wikipedia alone does not convince me on topics like this. I do not want either idea about the dark ages to be correct or false! I only piece together what I learn and draw proper conclusions. Then to add to that, I read and watch things that agree with my deductions.

    I know it was not an age of atheism. It was an age where the grasp of the church loosened, and great artists, philosophers, and inventors came forth to make the world a better place (as a general goal). Though, I believe that many more atheists did exist during the enlightenment than the dark ages.

    Huh? True atheists? I'm not sure how to define your proposition of a true atheist.

    Noooo, saying that if I knew what you meant by 'true atheist', would be a weak argument. When have I ever created a weak argument against religion? At least 10 times on this forum have I annihilated the opposition on religion. E-V-E-R-Y S-I-N-G-L-E T-I-M-E no one as responded to my post. NO ONE. Come on! Do you think that your religion can survive to see another day just because you did not respond? Because you could not respond? I tell you what, you could have responded by saying, "I'm sorry for my ignorance CF, I will stop believing in religion now". But you people would never say that! None of you will admit to your mistakes! You are all like bad politicians!

    Your argument does not work Harold. Either you are getting desperate, or did not examine what you intended to say enough. The Soviet union; they believed in communism, which did not work. It is not because it is a bad political philosophy, or because it intrinsic of itself does not work, but because HUMAN NATURE DOES NOT ALLOW IT TO WORK. Power corrupts. That alone set their government up for destruction. Following that, people need motivation to make money. Making money means that people like your product and are buying it. When people buy your product, the country flourishes; even further when international trade is involved. With communism, you cannot gain certain things no matter how hard you try. This is how their government works; due to this, the motivation to try hard and do great things disappears. It would be nice if most people would do great things without requiring money to do so, but this is not the case. These are some of the things that brought the Soviet Union down. Even if atheism was truly linked with communism, so what? You could say that the Soviet Union was the first large scale experiment to see whether communism works. Going into it they did not know that their plans would end in failure. The intentions of communism are not bad at all; equality and peace. What is wrong with that? Even if you did directly relate communism to atheism, you really do not have a strong argument. If anything you are saying good things about the intentions of atheism; although because they are not directly tied, you cannot say these nice things. (See, I'm not biased. I will not go for the affirmative of something false only because it benefits my beliefs) The founders of communism just happened to have atheistic ideals! If a Hindu comes into a store ans shoots someone, would you say that Hinduism is bad? Communism was not formed from atheism; they only happened to reside in the minds of the same people.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

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    CF, I wish you could stick to one subject. You are all over the map. You started by saying how religion impedes science. Then you went on about the evils of religion and started talking about the Crusades and the Inquisition. Now you are onto the topic of whether or not God exists. That is a fruitless topic of discussion, which leads nowhere. There are dozens of topics like that on the religion forum, none of which produced anything of value. In between, you even somehow dragged Marie Antoinette and hovering helicopters into the discussion.

    Here is the trouble. Human behavior and the interaction of society are complex. They cannot be explained by mathematical formulas and they cannot be boiled down to one or two historical incidents, which is what you are trying to do.

    If you are willing to give Hinduism a pass in the case of the the Hindu armed robber, and if you are willing to overlook the atheism of those atheistic dictators, why not do the same for Christianity? Where is all this hate coming from?
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    Don't worry, people complain about that all the time. I would say 75% of what I said, at least, was directly related to the discussion. Sometimes though I cannot help but insert more ideas.

    Everything can be explained by some sort of math or another. It is only a matter of whether or not you are capable of using math during certain situations. I, while am not very good at math, am open minded to its uses and have applied it to more than most people can imagine.

    No, the Hinduism scenario was meant to emulate what I was conveying through the atheist argument. He was not committing his actions in the name of his beliefs; he merely believed in both. Christianity on the other hand....well, you cannot deny how many people they killed 'in the name of christ'.

    When you burn, skin, tear apart, torture thousands of people for no other reason than their religious views, then you should expect...at least a few people to hate you. I do not believe in time in the way that you can say, "that happened in the past". To me, everything that has ever happened memorable to me has occurred only a minute ago. Every person killed by the Christians, Muslims, Jews, I feel pain for. Regardless of time, any actions as evil as those committed by religion are inexcusable.

    One of the main issues that I have with Christianity is not as much the basic stupidity of it, but rather how easy it is for powerful people to use it as a mind control weapon. A recent example would be president Bush's speech a few years ago during which he claimed that god had told him to send America's soldiers to Iraq. I know allot of theists who thought that what he said was bs, but there are numerous others out there who did in fact believe what this psychopath professed to be true.

    Religion is the perfect mental virus. Unless you completely exterminate it, it will multiply once again until it has reached its previous state. Russia destroyed enough churches to make the population of them go from 55,000 to around 5000 in a short period of time. Once they let up their suppression of stupidity, the population quickly went back to 55,000. What they did was pointless because they let the grand virus of humanity survive to destroy more minds, and populate the earth even further.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
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  42. #41  
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    CF, I won't attempt to change your opinion - only try to make you realize you are expressing an opinion, not objective fact.

    You seem to have gotten away from the original points about atheists being more productive through their lives than theist, or how religion impedes science. Have you now realized those were only opinions?

    Now you are onto religion being a force for evil through history. I'd like to see you prove that as an objective fact. First you have to define good and evil. It can't be done. Then you have to prove religion has caused more evil than good. What if some king decided not to massacre some defeated foes, because of his religious beliefs. That wouldn't necessarily make the history books, would it? How are you going to figure that into the equation? How will you account for any crimes that might have been prevented by someone's religious beliefs? You don't think that happens? Prove it.
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  43. #42  
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    Fine, if you are that stubborn, then at least call this a draw from your perspective. In actuality, those who carried on many of the historical records were religious monks (just reiterating the religious part). How could you think they were biased towards "what atheists would want history to be". If anything they did not record many of the crimes committed by religion.

    You can only take my word, which comes from the word of my sources, that as I have previously explained, have no motivation to slander religion. They only record the truths.

    As long as humans live, we will likely never get a population of real atheists who decided to be so through logic alone, like I have. (There is one way...but it is unlikely to ever happen) Due to this, I will never have solid evidence for you; you can only take my word. If you do not believe that a population of atheists would be more productive, then do not believe me. At least though, there is a chance that I have swayed the views at least a little bit of those who have read my posts.

    What you are doing, is that you are neglecting basic logic behind various groups incentives. You are trying to force me to play your game; you want me to slap a piece of evidence right in front of your face, but you know I cannot do that. You are trying to equate the lack of evidence in religion, with that of atheism. UNFORTUNATELY NO ONE READS MY POSTS THAT UTTERLY DEFEAT RELIGION. I month ago I wrote a large piece, that I care not to write again, explaining why two things without evidence can have a decisive winner. To put it simply, I cannot put evidence against a purely fictitious entity; because the only way to do that, would be to find/make fictitious evidence! Which of course you would retort by saying that it is fictitious and therefore lacking proof.

    Come on guys (all of you), this is pathetic. I expect better. Listen to my arguments; each time you see objective evidence, REMEMBER IT. Then when the time comes, put all of my pieces of logic together and realize finally, THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST.

    Common logic in its most obvious from! I feel like a 10 million dollar lawyer attempting to prove guilt, put up against George Bush as the defense.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
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  44. #43  
    Time Lord
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    Cold Fusion, if you think your beliefs are forged only by "truths" and "logic" and you act on those, we may have to lock you up.

    There's more.
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  45. #44  
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    Ha, Pong. This is why I only express my feelings on this forum. Because you guys cannot, "Lock me up" for being right. I feel like Galileo right now.

    I give up; I guess I am a unique case in the way that logic let me see the grand illusion that all religions truly are.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

    -Einstein

    http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

    Use your computing strength for science!
    Reply With Quote  
     

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