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Thread: What is a soul?

  1. #1 What is a soul? 
    Forum Sophomore buffstuff's Avatar
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    I know it's not much of a question, but what is a soul?


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    That is a pretty hard to answer question. The soul from my understanding is the actual part of a person that will live after death. The soul can't be examined to seen by any form of science that we currently possess. Some would say the soul influences the decisions of the mind, others would not. The soul is basically something one would have to believe in out of faith, as you can not prove it's existence or lack of existence with science alone.

    One could almost think of the soul as a supernatural parasite that inhabits the body. Some religions even believe the soul can leave or be bumped out of the body and be forced to find another home. One could use this to try and explain drastic behavior changes in a person where no medical reason exists.

    These are all just theories that nobody can prove or disprove beyond doubt.


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    There is something so eerie about how when someone dies, if you can't bring their heartbeat back after something like 20-45 minutes, you will never bring them back. I always thought it was because the soul has been completely severed from the body and can't reattach itself.
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    Thats a good point. I would think the soul is what goes on fter the body dies. But to answer if the soul determines personality, there should be a good definition of what a soul is. Do you think a person could live without a soul?
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffstuff
    Do you think a person could live without a soul?
    Seeing as how we really can't prove or disprove the existence of a soul to begin with, I would have to say yes one could live without a soul. Some religious leaders would have you believe those without a soul are often the ax murders and other such evil villeins in the world. I for one don't know how much basis there is to that. The same people also say animals have no souls, and I don't see them committing the kind of crimes people do.
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    If you assume animals have souls, then you'd have to assume that all living organisms have them, even bugs and plants.

    Something funny happened yesterday. I had this onion in a sandwich bag and out of the onion grew a plant, but it was still in the bag. My husband said he felt sorry for it, I said to just throw it away, but he said he couldn't because it was trying so hard to survive. And then I realized that I've felt sorry for plants before. Like the ones I gave to my father and then a month later went over to his house and they were dead. And here I had helped them live for over a year and he just let them die. It's sad really. But I don't know that they feel pain, I don't think they do. Could plants have a soul or is that just impossible?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112
    There is something so eerie about how when someone dies, if you can't bring their heartbeat back after something like 20-45 minutes, you will never bring them back. I always thought it was because the soul has been completely severed from the body and can't reattach itself.
    6 minutes until a person can not be revived, at least not by shooting joules through their heart. Personally, I blame the brain cells dying due to lack of oxygen, but the sould being disattached is creative too....

    I might be cruel when it comes to this, but when I feel sorry for a plant when it dies, it's because I spend good money on it, not because it's life essence has now joined with the Great Beyond.

    If the soul is that which makes something either alive or dead, I would say that plants have them too. I still don't buy it though. Although death may be very mystifying as no one ever seems to come back, I find a 'soul' to be somewhat too... far-fetched.

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    I can't say if animals have a soul, but plants I would say not. As for feeling pain, animals can because they have nerves and flesh just like us. Plants just have stuff, no nerves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffstuff
    I can't say if animals have a soul, but plants I would say not. As for feeling pain, animals can because they have nerves and flesh just like us. Plants just have stuff, no nerves.
    Well that's a good thing, can you imagine what PETA would say about lawn mowers

    Then again that occasional frog does get in the yard
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    A soul is something that was made up to make the prospect of death a bit more bearable.
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    So your saying that souls are just make belive, like fairies?
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffstuff
    So your saying that souls are just make believe, like fairies?
    Yeah
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    I don't know about that, but I don't know why not either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffstuff
    I don't know about that, but I don't know why not either.
    I don't see why there should be a soul. There is no scientific proof it exists. The soul isn't even a model that would explain stuff we couldn't explain otherwise. As far as I'm concerned things like consciousness and personality are nothing more than just a bunch of chemicals and electrical currents running around in the brain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEChengst
    Quote Originally Posted by buffstuff
    I don't know about that, but I don't know why not either.
    I don't see why there should be a soul. There is no scientific proof it exists. The soul isn't even a model that would explain stuff we couldn't explain otherwise. As far as I'm concerned things like consciousness and personality are nothing more than just a bunch of chemicals and electrical currents running around in the brain.
    Having had experience with the supernatural, I find it hard to explain my experiences without first excepting something beyond the human body has to exist. Science can't prove or disprove it, so in theory it has a chance of existence. Life without an afterlife, what's the point in even trying?
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Having had experience with the supernatural, I find it hard to explain my experiences without first excepting something beyond the human body has to exist.
    Being a true atheist I wouldn't trust my own experience with supernatural stuff. If you zap someone's brain with the right kind of magnetic waves that person will experience supernatural things. Taking a good dose of LSD is another way of experiencing supernatural things. It looks like the abillity to experience supernatural things is hard wired in the human brain and thus supernatural experiences can be explained by natural processes in the brain.

    Life without an afterlife, what's the point in even trying?
    There is even less sense in making stuff up because one can't handle reality. Or make up a God because you can't explain certains aspects of life and nature. I need to see some very convincing proof before I'll accept the existence of an afterlife. Believing there is no afterlife, I'm only more determined to make the best out of my life while it lasts.
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    Being a true atheist I wouldn't trust my own experience with supernatural stuff. If you zap someone's brain with the right kind of magnetic waves that person will experience supernatural things. Taking a good dose of LSD is another way of experiencing supernatural things. It looks like the abillity to experience supernatural things is hard wired in the human brain and thus supernatural experiences can be explained by natural processes in the brain.
    We are not talking hallucinations here It's something impossible to explain or convince others of. I'll not try.

    There is even less sense in making stuff up because one can't handle reality. Or make up a God because you can't explain certain aspects of life and nature. I need to see some very convincing proof before I'll accept the existence of an afterlife. Believing there is no afterlife, I'm only more determined to make the best out of my life while it lasts.
    Reality itself can't be explained, the origins of existence can not be explained with science alone, no matter how much we understand we still will be left with the question of origin. The big bang theory has that one big hole in it as well.

    People think of God and go right away to religion, I find them two different things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEChengst
    There is even less sense in making stuff up because one can't handle reality. Or make up a God because you can't explain certains aspects of life and nature.
    It's stated a bit rudely, but I agree.

    I think what we call a soul is actually consciousness, which is a complicated concept. It's hard to imagine how everything we feel and experience, our whole personality, relates to brain cells and electric pulses.

    Something I find very hard to understand is what difference there is between a body right before and right after death. Some would say that the difference is that the soul has left, but how would you describe it without using the term 'soul'? The braincells are still there, but somehow the 'person', the consciousness is gone.
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    All experience's drive us on to understanding something new, the more we experience, the more we can interpret the experience. Trying to interpret the eliment's of a soul as a seperate entitiy, is harder than the soul's interpretation of the flesh eliment. It's like two side's of ourselve's, the outside, which we all see, and the inside, which is hidden from outside view, and each having an opposite field of vision. The trick is how to get the inner soul image of ourselve's into our outer visual field's for an experience to interpret, and you can only achieve that if you know how to expand the normal visual field's, and believe me, it can be done!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raison Detre
    It's like two side's of ourselve's, the outside, which we all see, and the inside, which is hidden from outside view, and each having an opposite field of vision.
    Let's take one step back: how can we actually know there's is something like a soul? If we (from the outside) don't see the soul (the inside), then that's either because we can't see it or because it's not there. How do you know the first is true, not the second?
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    Well, i look at it this way. The Doppelganger is usually something experienced in a near death situation, so know we're in the realm's of flight and flight, and the action's of the brain in order for the body to survive at this perticular point in time. So what's experienced is the flight reaction of the mind when the body is static, resulting in a hightening of the visual senses during these extreem life threatening situation's.
    Now if you read Genesis 32, you'll see that Jacob also goes through the same visual seperation process with himself, and then attribute's the process to God as he, Jacob "has seen God face to face", hense two distinct spelling's of 'Peniel' and 'Penuel', indicating the distinction between the body of flesh and the body of the soul after wrestling with himself in the mind.
    The soul entity is a life force within us, it's just that we are just learning about the mechanism's that release that energy at perticular moment's in our live's, whether conscious of the release or not, that's just the timing in the visual spectrum, the faster your optical response's, the more access to those visual anomalies not normally experienced on a day to day basis.
    your soul will alway's look like you, no matter at what age you release that energy, how else would your soul look like you if it didn't come from you? Alchemical Projection in ancient term's is just the same as metempsychosis and remote viewing, all you have to do is find the mechanism that release's that substance, and give's you access to the visual field's to witness it in a hightened state of consciousness. John 8:12-18, New Testament explain's the same metempsychosis discription where Jesus say's "I am one who witnesses myself, and the father witnesses me", the magic mirror of the soul visual effect!
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    RD,

    The soul entity is a life force within us, it's just that we are just learning about the mechanism's that release that energy at perticular moment's in our live's, whether conscious of the release or not, that's just the timing in the visual spectrum, the faster your optical response's, the more access to those visual anomalies not normally experienced on a day to day basis.
    Sorry, I do not buy this definition. Most argue that the soul is something that goes beyond material life. If indeed you are describing sould as sometheing physical and linked to the brain/mind complex then it is not clearly defined yet. Is this your meaning?

    all you have to do is find the mechanism that release's that substance, and give's you access to the visual field's to witness it in a hightened state of consciousness
    If you believe that all this process is is caused by a brain reaction, what makes you think it is anything more dramatic than any of our other senses? Surely it does not mean that another dimension is created just because we can percieve it? It is an interesting thought that the manifesting of another, hitherto unexplained, sense would open up a new dimension to reality.
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    Yes, the soul energy does go beyond the material life, so does every ounce of vapour from every breath you breath, it carries your emotional signature into the spectrum field's, but only in tiny molecule amount's, so we travel through the universe, but in none conscious bit's of energy contained within the vapour released during the life age of the body. Every ounce of blood, sweat, and tear tell's a story in the spectrum on the other side of our universe, but recieved at a different speed's that we can't normally see here in earth's time field. It's like trying to videotape an event before than the event occur's, so you have to speed up the visual senses to see the distinction of time.
    Experiement's at the koestler Institute of Parapsychology, Edinburgh Uni, Scotland, have been carried out for year's using gigantic spinning magnet's either side of a subject, trying unseccessfully to access these visual spectrum,'s, but they've have problem's with the amount of vibration emitted from the brain in the visual field's. But the ancient Egyptian's knew about the vibration's of the brain, and developed a mechanism of extreme yoga stretche's of the body to dampen the nerve rumbble in the visual field, and if you know how to tork the body in the right way, and at the right rate of spin, you'll get a visual anomally that's mentioned in Genesis 32; where Jacob come's face to face with himself, or rather his soul energy molecule, caught in a fragment of time in the expanded visual field.
    The reaction from using this mechanism consentrate's the neuron activity in the brain, yoking off at the neck, causing an implosion, or discharge of neuron energy in the brain stem or Aten, and for that split second just before implosion take's place, you can achieve the energy level needed to speed up the visual senses that go far beyond the bilogical processes that are usually experienced at high rate's of fear or love, the 'fight or flight' response. So yes, perception play's a heavy roll in the speed of our responses to visual stimuli, either jump out of the way of the articulated lorry running out of controle and heading right for you, or don't percieve what's going to happen, and see if your still breathing after it's hit you! Your opening dimension's all the time, escape rout's in order to survive, so if you can find these escape rout's before the lorry hit's you, then your making the future through your perceptive process, seeing yourself on the other side of the crisis is how our survival response's naturally react, it's just a question of tapping into these natural abilities, and expanding the field's of posibilities by lenghtheng the crisis time itself in visual form, to enable an escape rout to be found in order to survive.
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    Science can't prove or disprove it, so in theory it has a chance of existence.
    The same then goes for everything.. from leprechauns and santa claus to 'using the force'. We simply cannot go through life like this though, giving a chance to everything and anything our minds can dream up. There are people who try to find a soul, with no joy thus far, just like there are actually people trying to find leprechauns. The amusing thing is one will demand existence of the thing he has no evidence for but is determined to find, while happily negating any possibility of the other man finding what he wants to find even though they are both in the exact same position.

    Of course these people will still try because, like you, they probably think that:

    Life without an afterlife, what's the point in even trying?
    And so they have little choice but to try. All of these weird and wonderful things are still completely non-evident, currently living in the realms of the non-existant, and that is exactly why people do try.. They need more.

    Personally I do not, and I feel some twinge of pity for those who do. Sure, 80 years if we're lucky isn't a lot, but the common idea of an 'eternal' afterlife is just plain ugly. If I remained as me, knowing everything and everyone I know, retaining my memories and so on, then I can only cringe at how bad things would be in

    Mod edit: (Please avoid posting such long numbers, it makes the post look like crap, thanks) IS
    50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,
    000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,
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    000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years time.

    I moved it to multiple lines to make this post look ok again.

    I personally would be so bored I would literally beg for complete death.

    If on the other hand I do not retain any of my human life then I wouldn't be me, and then it wouldn't be of any relevance.

    Further to that, surely knowing this is all there is and once it's over, it's over would make a person try much much harder to do something with it than the man who believes he's got more chances? I guess it's all about the person, but I intend to leave my mark before going on to feed the worms.

    From a biblical perspective it's interesting to note that "soul" is a translation for "breath". Ancient people generally saw one main difference between alive people and dead people - the absence of breath. This is where the soul comes from, a person's breath.. which is also why people generally conjure up an image of a white/transparent wispy image when thinking of souls.

    Something I find very hard to understand is what difference there is between a body right before and right after death. Some would say that the difference is that the soul has left, but how would you describe it without using the term 'soul'?
    Ok, as explained above: One breathes, one does not.

    Regards
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    This is what happend's when you die with your eye's open!
    usually, at the point of death, the visual stream stop's, but you get a picture like the earth has stopped moving, and everyone, and everything is in stasis, and audible sound's slow down into distant thundering's of noise. You watch the steadfast picture of life, which is about 1/24 of a second, until white snow flake spot's appeare on the picture, and eventually the whole picture whitend's itself out. I think there's some connection with a famous painting called 'Day out in Jette' showing all the figure's in the picture as almost flat except for the central figure of a little girl stood centrally, looking back at the veiwer's of the picture, rather like seeing from another angel of persprcetive, or 'Alice through the looking glass' , it's here where the dream state relate's to the visual death state, and where time, and light is none existant. But having Synaesthetic sense, incorperate's light into this area of darkness, and manifestation take's place, and because it's none time, it can be expanded for as long as you like. This is why near death experience's are created with the ability to contain a light source beyond darkness. The ancient Egyptian's drew all their face's with flat eye's instead of the normal concave eye, to show that they were in this 1/24 of a second time gap process, and the Scripture "a thousand's day's to us, is a day to the Lord" indicate's this visual timing system annomally, and whitening out the optical chasm wall is where the renewal process of Bible Scripture's originate's from!
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    Apparently the moment you die your body loses 24 grams..

    As for there being no point in life because you're not going to live afterwards I would say what's the point in life if you are going to live afterwards?
    The phrase "Life is a waiting room, get a good seat." which was posted on billboards in my school(!) doesn't make me want to rush out and do great things..
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    Quote Originally Posted by kestasjk
    Apparently the moment you die your body loses 24 grams..
    24 grams huh? Draining of the bladder

    As for there being no point in life because you're not going to live afterwards I would say what's the point in life if you are going to live afterwards?
    The phrase "Life is a waiting room, get a good seat." which was posted on billboards in my school(!) doesn't make me want to rush out and do great things..
    What were they thinking, did some highly depressed person start this advertising campaign...sad.
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    Apparently the moment you die your body loses 24 grams..
    Bullshit.
    You're going to have to better than saying 'apparently'. Reference a credited peer-reviewed paper documenting this '24 grams'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus
    Apparently the moment you die your body loses 24 grams..
    Bullshit.
    You're going to have to better than saying 'apparently'. Reference a credited peer-reviewed paper documenting this '24 grams'.
    I think he used "Apparently" as in "I've heard that". I don't think there was any reference to proof or the hint of proof. I took it for "So I've heard".

    Perhaps you are just giving him a hard time out of boredom?
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    Perhaps you are just giving him a hard time out of boredom?
    No. I'm giving him a hard time because the statement is ridiculous. I've actually heard this myth before myself and it has been proven to be false.

    I guess you you don't mind people saying stuff like that? You think it's cool?

    Say you're having a discussion on computers and some guy says, 'Apparently every time you boot up a computer a child in Somalia loses his soul.' You don't mind people making random statements like that in a semi-rational debate?

    The thing is that people believe this shit. Someone says, "Oh. I heard this somewhere." And that person carries it with him and then passes it on several times. And so on and so on and so on.

    And it's a lie.

    I can understand that the dude is just passing on hearsay. But I think that saying something like that requires evidence. The saying is 'Put up or shutup.' The lies have to stop somewhere.
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    I can understand that the dude is just passing on hearsay. But I think that saying something like that requires evidence. The saying is 'Put up or shutup.' The lies have to stop somewhere.
    I guess I just assumed he knew it was BS. If not then I certainly can see your point. I find some of it amusing, not to be taken seriously.
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    I find some of it amusing, not to be taken seriously.
    Yeah. But some people do take it seriously. Very seriously. Someone could come along. Read that little 'apparently'. And take it as God's own Truth and pass it on to everyone he knows as if it were.

    Maybe he was being joking about it. The rest of his post seemed to be slightly more in tune with an emphasis on life rather than on death, but it was unclear if he were joking or not.

    Meh. I probably overreacted but even so. I've seen this argument used seriously too many times. It should be qualified as false.
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    (i typed all this, now its 4 am and im not going to go back and re-read it or edit it so if its fucked up, just know i did my best here k?? heh)

    If I remember right, the Tibetan Buddhist reffer to the soul, or the part of us that continues and the " consciousness principle". like a fiberoptic filiment of light with a spark at the end that is the fundament juice for consciousness where it comes to rest. I think the Buddhist at least unofficially teach the continuence theory or reincarnation, but the Tibetan Buddhists at least point out that the part of us that continues, the consciousness priciple, does not contain what seems to make us what we seem to be now, such as identity, or physical features. What does continue about us attached in some way to that spark are karmas, that guide our future incarnations in a karmically relative sense to our past life, thus engendering similiarities in the reincarnated spark. There is some part of the explaination too, that goes into suggesting that certain long long time tendencies around the consciousness principle become no long karmically flexible, but somehow permanantly additive to the spark. this accounts in some way i assume, for the evolution over thousands or 100s of thousands of lifetimes that the Buddists talk about. At some point its suggested that thru persistance practice of lifetimes of understand and controlling the mind in regards to unwavering unveiled awareness that this very awareness starts to become a permanent attached quality to the spark which is a assume explains the rumored occurance of certain spiritual beings, like the dalai lama i guess, the ability to hold onto awareness of memories from past lives.
    There is somethin about the life-inbetween state(death)-rebirth, that is intended to refresh and revitalize the spark, if i remember right. I mean ive considered the christian idea of eternal life in heaven and have concluded that that would very likely be fuckin horrible. In my lifetime i have been less energetic mentally and maybe creatively. call it mellowed some. but at the same time my awareness and understand of things grow more than ever and part of this awareness is the awareness of others whose awareness and insight into the world around them is absolutely beyond me. beyond where ill ever be able to go in the span of this lifetime. I think that as the being that i am now, i have certain limits if not just limited momentum. If i were to stretch this out into some eternity i fear i would get nightmarish tired of my lack of ability to generate further learning and interest in things. Surely at some point thru ETERNITY. i would become stagnant and i would wish to die.... to strart over fresh.
    So there is this element in the inbetween state of washing away all but the most persistant things about you and the temporal memories and facts of your previous existence in order to fully facilitate refreshing the consciousness principle spark, for another go at manifest consciousness in mental/physical form.

    Now dont get me wrong. Im not saying that is how it is. In fact Im not even sure if I remembered all that correctly as its been 20 years since i studied these beliefs. Just so you know, if you doubt my memory research it yourself. One thing tho, I personally feel pretty confidant that the Tibetans have one of the most solid grasps on what death is and how it goes and even practice in guiding a spark of a conscious while IN THE inbetween state so as to guide it to be best of all possible new incarnations. Also the egyptians. Both have their book of the dead.Two great resources for info on what i typed about are the Tibetan Book of the Dead by W.Y. Evans-Wentz, Tibetan Yoga and secret doctrines by Evans-Wentz, and the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche. Also a less er.... scientific work talking about some of the more fantastic of the rumored ideas and phenomena surround the soul and death and rebirth is a book called The Way of the White Clouds by Lama Anagarika Govinda., Its supposed to be like his travels to Tibet as a pilgrime in the 1930s before the chinese occupation into a Tibet that was still much as it had been for 1000s of years. Super interesting if not a little unbelievable.
    peace
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  35. #34  
    Forum Freshman kestasjk's Avatar
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    I can understand that the dude is just passing on hearsay. But I think that saying something like that requires evidence. The saying is 'Put up or shutup.' The lies have to stop somewhere.
    You're preaching to the choir here, I assumed that everyone would take it jokingly like Insane.. Anyway why do you challenge my absurd comment but not the following one which was posted earlier?

    "It's like two side's of ourselve's, the outside, which we all see, and the inside, which is hidden from outside view, and each having an opposite field of vision.
    The trick is how to get the inner soul image of ourselve's into our outer visual field's for an experience to interpret, and you can only achieve that if you know how to expand the normal visual field's, and believe me, it can be done!"

    I can just imagine Raisen sitting at his computer squinting and crossing his eyes as hard as possible in an attempt to see his inner soul image..
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    Mod edit: (Please avoid posting such long numbers, it makes the post look like crap, thanks)
    My sincere apologies, but in this instance I considered it pertinent to the point. People very often do not really appreciate what 'eternal afterlife' means - which can only really be done when you break it down in to such numbers, (and a number of such length).

    Apparently the moment you die your body loses 24 grams..
    It's 21 grams. Nobody seen the film? But I wouldn't place too much 'faith' in the notion. It's more religion, (pretending to be science), making claims to help support it's prehistoric ideas.
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    A thought.
    When you go to sleep at night and you wake up in the morning there is a large period of time that you can not account for. You were not conscious, why can't death be like this, but without regaining consciousness.
    Another thought.
    When you make an action, pick something up, move your limbs, you are not aware of any conscious choice as to how you made this action. To pick up a pen, you may have had the instinct, but you don't choose how your fingers wrap around the pen, how fast, what grip, it is unconscious.
    When you speak, do you choose the words, or do you just talk and what comes out feels natural and in accordance with your beliefs, which are built on your experiences, but you don't consciously choose what to say, do you?
    So how can we have a soul if these important parts of our selves aren't even in our control.
    And if you have amnesia, what happens to the person you were. Do they go to heaven, or are the connections between the nurons severed and the experiences that shape your decisions lost and a new personality is created?
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  38. #37  
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    The "soul" is a construct designed to explain the difference between the apparently animate, and the apparently not-so-animate. It was born of a mystical presumption of life continuing in some form after death.

    Depending on how you look at it, it somewhat makes sense.

    Let us consider for a second the possibility that there is more to the person than the brain and body. I think undoubtedly, there is an "abstract component" to any individual. This aspect is intangible, yet undeniably real...

    When considering the seeming prevalence of the principle of "conservation" throughout nature, one might hypothize that the "abstract component" of an individual could perhaps continue some form of cohension in "abstract space" once the person dies.

    *shrug*

    Then again maybe not.

    Current science cannot really address the question I don't think, as there's the slight difficulty of "measuring abstracts" that isn't even considered a serious question as far as I know. To most people, I don't think the idea of "abstracts" is in any way related to "something measurable" in the way they see the world.
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    For the purposes of philosophical discussion, the soul is what we call the essence of a person, the sum total that is greater than the parts, the way consciousness functions and produces thoughts and the feeling of being alive. I don't think it can have an existence outside of the body, since it depends on the body. Experience with any substance that alters consciousness can reveal how sensitive the brain is to chemistry. A cup of coffee, or some food can change your whole outlook. This tells me that it is not a robust, independant construction or entity, but the product of a very sensitive mechanism, one that can break down easily.

    I don't think the soul is even continuous. By that I mean that it isn't the same from moment to moment, radical self-induced changes are always possible, like with hypnosis, brainwashing, religious experiences, and buddhist enlightenment.
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  40. #39  
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    What is a soul?

    A label given to describe the combination of bio-chemical and electromagnetic interactions in a living organism.
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    I think I'll go with spidergoat and Q and toss in a bit of InSanity and call a soul, self.
    It's not what you know or don't know, but what you know that isn't so that will hurt you. Will Rodgers 1938
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    [the whole] = [the sum of all parts] + [the fact that the parts make a whole]

    or

    [living being] = [chemicals] + [alive and functioning]

    or

    [human] = [body] + [soul]


    However, as these abstractions took place, things got confused, messed up etc.
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    I was talkign with someone yesterday and they believed that, we don't have souls inside us, we live inside them, and they all around us. The common image of a soul is something that represents us inside out body. Like a personality that keeps going on after death.
    All things appear and disappear because of the concurrence of causes and conditions. Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else.
    -Buddha
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