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Thread: The Root of All Evil

  1. #1 The Root of All Evil 
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    What's your opinion on the root of all evil?

    There was a huge debate between money and ignorance on this forum and I just wanted to know what your guys opinion are on this.

    http://www.rapbattles.com/forum/show...il-365639.html


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    Humans.


    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Humans.
    Hmm. I like that answer.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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  5. #4  
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    Whenever life forms interact, "evil" is possible. I prefer the world stirred up anyway.
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    Evil is a human concept, so Cold Fusion's response seems the most accurate. It does, however, lack depth. What is it, for example, about humans that can generate evil? Also, how do we distinguish between evil and the merely bad?
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Evil is a human concept, so Cold Fusion's response seems the most accurate. It does, however, lack depth. What is it, for example, about humans that can generate evil? Also, how do we distinguish between evil and the merely bad?
    Necessity perhaps?

    Was the evil deed done for an evil reason (just for fun for example) or was there a reason understandable for the action?
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  8. #7  
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    What sets "mere bad" apart? One can mean well, and do bad.

    I don't find "evil" a useful term, but evil, I'd define as doing something bad just because one feels like it, "because that's just the way I am." It is callously placing one's own interests, no matter how slight, before another's, no matter how grave.

    When a wasp stings, it means to kill. It really means to end you! If something can be "evil", surely this is..? Or, better, when a hornet injects her eggs inside a living creature. Brutal! Evil is a human concept, yes... and many human concepts may be applied to hornets. I think that what Ophiolite meant, was that "evil" as condemnation should only be applied to humans? But note I'm not judging hornets - I would not have them any other way.

    "Evil" does not have to be loaded with values and wielded righteously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Also, how do we distinguish between evil and the merely bad?
    The way we always do, surely:

    1. Yuck factor
    2. Upbringing
    3. Received book
    4. Unacknowledged patriarchal impulses
    etc

    But does that take away from the fact that, whichever way we do it, we are the arbiters of what is evil? And it is rooted in our quest for normative standards....

    To that extent some might claim that the love of money (not money itself, but cupiditas, or, lovely archaic word, cupidity) is the root of all evil, but they're probably the ones who say blessed are the poor. Those who chastise ignorance are probably dwellers in ivory towers (of one sort or another)...

    So the root cause of all evil is different depending upon who's ideology you use. My tuppence.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinewarrior
    To that extent some might claim that the love of money (not money itself, but cupiditas, or, lovely archaic word, cupidity) is the root of all evil, but they're probably the ones who say blessed are the poor.
    The poor and the distressed are similar. My familiy motto is Miseris Succerrere Disco , I learn to succour the distressed. It always amused me that this could sound to the ear like I learn to sucker the distressed. :wink:
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  11. #10  
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    Evil is a religious concept and has little meaning in nature.

    The indoctrination of children into religious cults is where it begins. The acceptance of the irrational and improbable as an absolute truth will destroy any mind.
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  12. #11  
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    I would have to agree with humans. After all, we are the only species that kills out of hate or disgust. We are the root of all evil and the our actions are just sections of that.
    A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
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  13. #12  
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    the root of all evil is ... shoes.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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    "evil" is relative.

    Person A stops person B from killing Person C. Person A assumes B is evil.

    Person B was sent to assassinate Person C because person C is considered evil by many.

    Person C, unknowing about the above incidents, thinks all men are evil because they fight.


    Lets get real.. Evil is just an opinion.
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    Dodging the question. "What is (the root of) evil?" Or at least, if one doesn't care much for the term, what could it be? "Just an opinion" - lame!

    I'm arguing that, stripped of muddled moral baggage, evil could be a commonly understood & useful term. One could prove whether some person or thing had the (defined, knowable) quality of "evil", and not prove for self-serving reasons either. Objectively. For better understanding.

    I'm also fed up with the secular ceding religion ownership of this. It's time we claimed it and made sense of it, as we have so many other things.

    To illustrate how "evil" could be useful, I'll swap a less abused quality:


    Suppose we live in Lazyland.

    Person A stops person B from killing Person C. Person A assumes B is industrious.

    Person B was sent to assassinate Person C because person C is considered industrious by many.

    Person C, unknowing about the above incidents, thinks all men are industrious because they fight.


    Isn't that better?
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivideByZero
    "evil" is relative.

    Person A stops person B from killing Person C. Person A assumes B is evil.

    Person B was sent to assassinate Person C because person C is considered evil by many.

    Person C, unknowing about the above incidents, thinks all men are evil because they fight.


    Lets get real.. Evil is just an opinion.
    In that case. the ethical debate is not about what constitutes “evil” but how you deal with what you consider to be “evil”.

    Suppose you don’t approve of a certain society’s way of life – which you consider “evil”. You send a couple pilots to fly their planes into two of their buildings and cause anguish and mayhem to that society whose way of life you consider “evil”. However your tactic is considered “evil” by many (and not just by those upon whom you’ve just inflicted your terrorist wound). So: do you think countering “evil” with another “evil” is justified?

    The bottom line is: You can define anything you don’t like as “evil”. It’s how you deal with it, not what it is, that matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Evil is a religious concept and has little meaning in nature.

    The indoctrination of children into religious cults is where it begins. The acceptance of the irrational and improbable as an absolute truth will destroy any mind.
    i disagree

    evil is not a religous concept, but a cultural or social concept

    what ever is deemed bad, wrong or evil is chosen by a culture, not a religion

    i should be corrected if i am wrong but...

    your basicly saying remove the religion and "evil" will no longer exist

    in a world of atheists there is still evil
    Why do you stand around agrueing about the existence of gods and the truths of man while your beloved world tears itself apart with hate, anger, ignorance and fear?

    PETAs best weapon, and greatest weakness against hunting is their ingnorance. They can say whatever they want get people to support them.

    As such, their worst enemy is a smart hunter.
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  18. #17  
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    I think it fair to say that religion did own and exploit the concept of "evil", to excess, and this got religion into trouble. I'm sure most believers today would acknowledge this. Evil still smells like bad news, so many people avoid the concept. It's associated with ugly religion.

    There was a time when Christianity owned logic as well as rhetoric. We don't throw these out because of who's handled them in the past.

    *Listens to Bach*
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  19. #18  
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    Evil can translate to Extremeley irresponsible.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  20. #19  
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    I think evil can't be pinned onto any specific thing such as money etc.

    All material things in life have duality therefore money can bring good as well as evil, it depends on who's holding it.

    I think evil comes about when there is too much thought without feeling.

    Neurologists and phrenologists have recently discovered that morals are not developed exclusively through reason and the thinking function as was thought for a long time.

    They have discovered that morals are produced through the feeling function.

    And feelings are a learned syntax like language.

    How we feel about something being right or wrong dictates the choices of whether we do good or bad.

    Someone without this capacity such as a psychopath is highly capable of evil.

    For centuries throughout mythology and patriarchal religions and societies the feminine was thought to be the darker element and more capable of evil than a man because she was considered to base her judgments and decisions on emotion rather than reason.

    Reason was seen to be a male quality and the golden boy of good morals.

    This new scientific evidence seems to throw a different light on things doesn't it?

    [NO i am NOT flaming, just thinking whilst rubbing my chin in a masculine way whilst feeling rather smug in an emotionally female way]
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nj14
    i should be corrected if i am wrong but...

    your basicly saying remove the religion and "evil" will no longer exist

    in a world of atheists there is still evil
    (Q) was scared by a devout religious type as a child. :wink: He is obssessed with the notion that everything irrational, evil and ineffective on the planet can be traced to the 'indoctrination' of religion.

    Your observations, in my opinion, are spot on.
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    I think that evil is committed when an entity intentionally commits a wrong doing at the expense of anothers pain for little gain, with disregard for all conditions that could hinder their actions.

    Torturing someone who killed your family is not evil.

    Torturing someone because they stepped on your shoes is evil.

    Evil has become a religious concept over the centuries. The theists used the word evil when they wanted to blacklist a certain set of actions or beliefs that prevented them from obtaining absolute manipulative control over the masses. Today though, they do not use it as much due to their history, and any possible chance that they could remind people how awful religion is.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Torturing someone who killed your family is not evil.

    Torturing someone because they stepped on your shoes is evil.
    What if you value your shoes more than your family?

    Note: that may seem like a trite question, but it actually penetrates right to the heart of this discussion.
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  24. #23  
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    If it doesn't penetrate, at least it cut some crap off - namely our linking evil with a particular set of (e.g. cultural) values.
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    Then you are unreasonable and obviously do not have the intellect to contain any peculiar emotions you have towards certain objects.

    I think it would be better to compare somone killing your familly to killing your cat or dog for this example. Personally I would torture someone who killed my entire familly. I would also torture somone if they intentionally killed my cat. This does bring up the question of, what is worthy of severe consequence? It can vary alot form person to person....but I also think that the intent behind the action matters more than the action itself. We of course have laws that govern this....but the laws are flawed in that they do not take into consideration the motive.

    If someone by mistake stepped on my most expensive pair of shoes, then I would let it go within a few minuits, likely with only saying a quick word to them about their lack of attenion while walking. If on the other hand, they came up to me with a dirty look on their face, called me a stupid rich white cracker (yes, once again, this is the kind of place that I live in) and then progressed to intentionally with extensive mallice implied, step on my shoes, I would do a ju-juitsu move on them in order to inflict maximum damage. Though, I would not torture them....
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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    To me 'evil' is maligned and stunted, it does not fulfill it's potential. It rots and goes putrid. It is stagnates and begins to fester because it does not move.

    Life is about moving, growing and expanding. It means to keep flowing and filling every nook and cranny.

    A mind that seeks life is one that doesn't cling and creates blockages. It readily discards in place of the new.

    I think one of the worst forms of evil is denial.

    Denial instantly pulls the draw bridge up and creates a blockage.

    Eventually whatever is behind that drawbridge stagnates and putrefies.

    Why do people deny when the facts are staring them in the face?
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    You know most characterize evil as more active than that.

    Aren't you describing vices?
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    how about this (and i think for many people it's pretty close to the truth) :

    evil = not me
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  29. #28  
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    THAT AVATAR SAYS DIFFERENTLY.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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    seriously people what is EVIL? i mean, if you think about it the only truly evil people are those who commit evil purely for the thing of it. Those who are evil to be evil are the only evil ones (sorry for my over use, i'm not so friendly with thesauruses). If a person kills you to feed himself, is he evil. Not really. If he didn't, he would die and you cant expect everyone to be selfless.
    If a person stills everything you hold dear in the world save someone else because it was the only way he could, would he be evil? NO. see 99.9% of evil has some reasonable motive. .006% is just because the person is an idiot being manipulated. and .004% of evil has no motive and cannot be explained beyond the persons (if they could be called that) callousness and blackness of soul.
    Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    THAT AVATAR SAYS DIFFERENTLY.
    nope - surely no-one seriously thinks of themselves as evil ? it's always other people
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  32. #31  
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    I do. I guess that if there is a universal, objective definition of evil, then I'm evil to the core, in a watered-down way. But then all life is.

    I truly believe that, ultimately, I have no justification, for anything. I'm here and I'm damn well going to do as I'm built, not as I know. I'm a hypocrite and harmful in many ways, I know it, but I'll continue as a dumb animal despite knowing better. Not a moral leg to stand on, here.
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    Evil depends on our moral norm at the moment and what we percieve as evil. Evil as a concept would be confined within the human world I guess. I've never actually had much belief in good and evil, for me there's just been necessity and unjust (a replacement concept I've made). Greed, which is an evolutionary trait, can be considered evil. Just look at the world. Many people suffer whilst some are living perfect lives full of richness, lazyness and doing what they want to do, when they want to do it. And the more people get, the more they want. Though there are some (very few) who live a life with only what's necessary.

    But even this concept has its flaws.

    Everyone can't be equal. This is a world of variety, with different extremes and situations all mixed in. And in a way that's exacly what makes it so beautiful, and yet so gruesome.

    From an objective viewpoint however, there's doubtfully any evil at all. The concept of evil is nothing more than an emotinoal response to what we deem to be unjust. And that perspective useally differs to some extent from person to person.

    In an attempt to answer what's the root of all evil, I would say greed. An evolutionary trait we probably have no use of any longer.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    You know most characterize evil as more active than that.

    Aren't you describing vices?
    Not sure if you are referring to what i put about denial

    but what we are looking at Pong is the root cause of evil

    I think denial creates blockages and leads a persons psyche to become split off from the truth as well as being able to base their morals on thinking things through and feeling bad about stuff.

    Denial can be ignoring feelings as well.

    I think this can lead to somebody becoming evil and psychopathic because they are not experiencing or they are ignoring feedback of empathy which would lead to compassion and the formulating of moral and what is wrong and right.
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nj14
    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Evil is a religious concept and has little meaning in nature.

    The indoctrination of children into religious cults is where it begins. The acceptance of the irrational and improbable as an absolute truth will destroy any mind.
    i disagree

    evil is not a religous concept, but a cultural or social concept

    what ever is deemed bad, wrong or evil is chosen by a culture, not a religion

    i should be corrected if i am wrong but...

    your basicly saying remove the religion and "evil" will no longer exist

    in a world of atheists there is still evil
    "While every language has a word expressing good in the sense of "having the right or desirable quality" (ἀρετή) and bad in the sense "undesirable", the notion of "good and evil" in an absolute moral or religious sense is not ancient, but emerges out of notions of ritual purity and impurity. The basic meanings of κακός and ἀγαθός are "bad, cowardly" and "good, brave, capable", and their absolute sense emerges only around 400 BC, with Pre-Socratic philosophy, in particular Democritus. [1]Morality in this absolute sense solidifies in the dialogues of Plato, together with the emergence of monotheistic thought (notably in Euthyphro which ponders the concept of piety (τὸ ὅσιον) as a moral absolute). The idea is further developed in Late Antiquity, in Neoplatonism, Gnosticism and by the Church Fathers."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_and_evil
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nj14

    your basicly saying remove the religion and "evil" will no longer exist

    in a world of atheists there is still evil
    The concepts of good an evil exist independently of nature, and since they are the result of religious doctrine, have little meaning in nature.

    By all means, remove religion and try to explain nature with the concepts of good and evil?
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    By all means, remove religion and try to explain nature with the concepts of good and evil
    We're tryin', we're tryin'.

    I can't disagree with the last few posts. Maybe we can synthesize them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Greed, which is an evolutionary trait, can be considered evil.

    This is a world of variety, with different extremes and situations all mixed in. And in a way that's exacly what makes it so beautiful, and yet so gruesome.

    And that perspective useally differs to some extent from person to person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    denial creates blockages and leads a persons psyche to become split off

    this can lead to somebody becoming evil and psychopathic because they are not experiencing or they are ignoring feedback of empathy
    Both have this root in common: expediency. Evolution, survival in a disordered world, that's a no-brainer: Pushing ahead in the cue is expedient. So is brandishing a cleaver so you're the only shopper in line. It might be expedient to genocide some people or release some aggression on a puppy. Also where Selene's looking, within the psyche: "Eat your damn peas, kid, or else" and "I'll think it through later", expedient no? People set denial rolling when denial is expedient.

    The opposite of expediency is care. Life must strike a balance, as in action vs. reflection, or determination vs. adaptation, but conditions change and so do the ideal proportions.

    'Cause we're clever learning mammals, human beings excel at being careful and we're running with that. We're destroying all that is merely expedient in ourselves and each other, with a passion. Whether or not another species lacks care is of no matter. I don't bother tagging those, "evil" because this goes without saying. I don't call a tomato an idiot either.

    I find it ironic that we're so absorbed in our subjective bubble, we can't reconcile our morals with one dumb tomato plant or garden slug, "because our concepts are human constructs". The barrier keeps us floating out of touch with reality... which though convenient, or expedient one might say :wink: , prevents a fuller understanding of our place in the universe. Or, so it did with me at least.
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    I say sensless people, which is generally ignorance, so yah, ignorance.
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    "The Root of All Evil"?

    I think Mandrake roots are pretty evil, no?

    I mean, just look at it!



    Seriously, it is pretty much a man-made concept. It's the basic concept of doing onto others as you'd have them do to you, but in reverse. And the levels where not good turn to bad and then to "evil" is governed by the morals and norms of the society in question.
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  40. #39  
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    Money on this Earth, or possesions is the root of all evil. Imagine just how much evil it breeds. Greed, lust, power, envy. etc. Its seems more evil than orange juice or the Empire state building.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    One thing is certain - money absolutely cant be the source of ALL evil, it might be the source(base) of many evil, or most evil but defenetly not ALL evil.
    Take a sycopath killer for instence... does he kill for money? no.
    does money connected in anyway to his killings? for some it is but its enough if you find ONE just ONE exeption it rules out the "ALL evil" part...

    Now.. if you look at ignorace... you can find a certain level of ignorence in almost ANYTHING, even in the simple act of breathing has SOME level of ignorence...

    If we take now the sycopath killa example(not moneyt related physco killer) you can say that he`s a stupid mother****er which is basically ignorence.
    You can do this with any evils that you can come up with and ignorence will still be at the core of things.

    btw, the defenition of evil from my prospective is passing a certain level of resistance(or morals) when you act on another induvidual(s).
    It verys from person to person tho...

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    Consciousness is the root of all evil!

    Think about it, self awareness grants people the capability to learn and understand what others have instructed and then therefore make their own understandings (judgements), with regards to there surroundings and upbringings.
    You can not say that a chimp, killing another chimp in order to retain their dominance is evil! No more than you can say a wasp stinging you is evil!
    Animals have no understanding of what is right and wrong in the same context that we do! For a pack of lions, even though the lioness has caught the food, the dominant male will get the first oppertunity to eat, even if there are young that need the meat more. If the youngster was to try to eat first, this would be considered wrong by the dominant male! (Punishable by death!? ( Which would be considered right to the pack))
    If we consider religion ( not meaning to offend anyone ) I hear people asking the question "why does GOD not prove that he/she (IT) EXSISTS? ", "Why does God allow bad things to happen?"
    If you think about it. religion is all about free will, the oppertunity to make your own choice between right and wrong. If God were to prove to everybody without a shadow of doubt that he/she (it) exsisted, well, if you already belived in religion (GOD) how would you not be able to live your life, without the deffinate knowing that you were doing right or wrong (( Free will ) Its not free will if you have been forced to the conclusion!). If you didn't believe in a religion, how do you justify not believing in GOD when you have been proved wrong!?(GOD exsists) This is why religion is all about FAITH! Believing in something from the core of your being, without any rational reasoning! Which is why EVIL is all a matter of concious perspective! (Human creation!)
    Dispite religion, weather you believe in it or not, the conciouse mind is the root of all evil!
    It defines evil, it makes evil!!!
    (Let's say that God does exsist, and was the creator of everything that humans could understand, then would evil not be one of the creations in order to create free will and understanding?)

    Back to the first sentance " Self awareness grants people the capability to learn and understand what others have instructed and then therefore made their own understandings (judgements), with regards to there surroundings and upbringings." where did the first teachings ever come from?
    Is it just a case of understanding one's feelings? What makes someone feel good? Is this what religion is? If so, for example, does having sex define religion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Everyone can't be equal. This is a world of variety, with different extremes and situations all mixed in. And in a way that's exacly what makes it so beautiful, and yet so gruesome.

    From an objective viewpoint however, there's doubtfully any evil at all. The concept of evil is nothing more than an emotinoal response to what we deem to be unjust. And that perspective useally differs to some extent from person to person.
    YEP!
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    1C3, I have something to say about the whole free will argument that theists put forth (even if it has nothing to do with this thread). Theists say, "Oh....we are put on this earth by god so that we can choose whether or not to go to heaven or hell". The thing is, if god created everything, and wants free will to choose, then why do other religions exist? Wouldn't you say that Muslims believe in their god just as much as christians do? How is that free will? Why would god knowingly create multiple religions where all equally believe in their god? I would not call that free will.

    The word evil is based on subjectivity; you cannot look at it from an objective perspective. Still, good discussion.

    Yes Kalster, that root is very evil looking. Is that you holding it? DID YOU EAT IT?
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

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    Yes Kalster, that root is very evil looking. Is that you holding it? DID YOU EAT IT?
    You can eat it? Nah, google.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Yes Kalster, that root is very evil looking. Is that you holding it? DID YOU EAT IT?
    You can eat it? Nah, google.
    If you eat a mandrake root you will trip out big time!

    As well as become violently ill if you eat too much and could even die!

    It belongs to the nightshade family and is a hallucinogenic

    They were used in magic rituals and some resemble the shape of a human figure.

    Folklore says the root apparently screams when you pull it out of the ground
    But i'm yet to hear one scream!
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  47. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    The thing is, if god created everything, and wants free will to choose, then why do other religions exist?
    Why would God create any religion? Why would God create anything?
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    Theists would say so that they could exist. But why should they exist? No reason. Theists have no idea what they believe in; if they managed to see the sheer stupidity of it, maybe at least they would convert to agnosticism

    I can see Kalster taking some mandrake root for some and
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    But why should they exist? No reason.
    To be fair, I can’t see any reason why we exist either. Why should we ourselves exist? No reason either? In fact, with so much suffering in life, some would rather not exist at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Theists have no idea what they believe in
    Children have no idea why farts are funny. The ancient Chinese had no idea why they believed tea healthier than river water. They didn't second-guess. That's why theists are so damned accurate in pointing the way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Theists have no idea what they believe in
    Children have no idea why farts are funny. The ancient Chinese had no idea why they believed tea healthier than river water. They didn't second-guess. That's why theists are so damned accurate in pointing the way.
    The way to where?
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    We do not have a reason to exist, we are here by chance, just like every other life form on this planet. For all you theists who can't imagine this, take a college level biology class. I mean, at least say that god created the universe and that everything else was by chance, but PLEASE do not show your stupidity and say that god created us 10,000 years ago (or at all directly) or any bs like that.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  53. #52 evil 
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    evil is a word like good the fact that they are opposite in accepted definitions does not give them a life of their own, humans are capable of evil acts and good acts, thus while a witness to mankinds actions smell at its worst like a evil doing, it is nothing more then mankinds actions. a independent of mans actions true evil, has yet to be witness by any man save the story of so called evil father the devil, to make a long story short there is no evil or good just man and his actions.
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  54. #53 Re: evil 
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    evil is a word like good the fact that they are opposite in accepted definitions does not give them a life of their own, humans are capable of evil acts and good acts, thus while a witness to mankinds actions smell at its worst like a evil doing, it is nothing more then mankinds actions. a independent of mans actions true evil, has yet to be witness by any man save the story of so called evil father the devil, to make a long story short there is no evil or good just man and his actions.
    What stories of the devil are these then? I can't say that I have ever heard of the true evils he has done, like say, flood the whole planet!
    The stories I have heard of the devil are things that man himself can do, like manipulate and tempt people into doing against Gods will. If God created (and is indeed in) everything, then God is the devil tempting you to do against his will! Which in turn provides man with the choice of good and evil. Free will, but only to the degree that you either do right or wrong by God and the ten commandments. If you don't believe, then you have the free will to decide for yourself what you think is right or wrong. Unless you want to take the matter up with God and make God change minds!

    But anyway I'm just pointing out an observation and one way someone could look at it.

    Good and Evil are subjective pertaining to or characteristical of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
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  55. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    theists are so damned accurate in pointing the way.
    The way to where?
    Instincts, axioms, folk wisdom.

    Sloth is a deadly sin. The spirit of the raven will get you into trouble. If you live in Palestine, don't eat the oysters. Snakes are nasty. Altitude is power. Pass around the bread & wine.

    No offense to anybody... it's a lot like studying gorillas to gain insights into human psychology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    No offense to anybody... it's a lot like studying gorillas to gain insights into human psychology.
    Is that by comparing the differences and relations between the two and how they relate?
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  57. #56 1Cr 
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    what free will, no good or bad, no right or wrong no evil save the actions of men called evil for general purpose only. free will is that like decision making per option or circumstance, what will have we ever had free of our own purpose of intrest. truly God is bigger then all of that.




    After you smell it, taste it, thouch it,see it then factor in your logic.
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  58. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    No offense to anybody... it's a lot like studying gorillas to gain insights into human psychology.
    Is that by comparing the differences and relations between the two and how they relate?
    No. Here's an example:

    Have you ever sucked the water out of a toothbrush? Well, a lot of people have, just standing there at the sink absentmindedly & passing the brush under water after every sip. Then "what am I doing?" (informal poll by me)

    You watch a nature show and there's an ape dipping a frayed stick into some crevice. Draws it out and sucks the water, repeat...

    Aha.



    Traditions, including religious traditions, are like that frayed stick.
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  59. #58 Re: 1Cr 
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    what free will, no good or bad, no right or wrong no evil save the actions of men called evil for general purpose only. free will is that like decision making per option or circumstance, what will have we ever had free of our own purpose of intrest. truly God is bigger then all of that.




    After you smell it, taste it, thouch it,see it then factor in your logic.
    I agree, what free will?

    Free will is to make a personnal decision about a course of action, thought or feeling. Yet, we are brought up with other peoples thoughts and fellings, how they think it best to take action, which generally is the majorities norm (disreegarding all religion for a min). If we did not have this kind of upbringing (taught what is best within the current society, so to speak) then we would not comform to the norm. So one could say, only by this kind of upbringing would we truely have free will. But, this is without knowing the consequece's. Having said that, by knowing the consequences, we still have the free will to decide weather we want to fit in and conform.
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    conformity yes but it was not always so this conformity springs due to the advent of society and its norms to conform to, without society, norms would change. glad we have this society i personally will follow the rules but if i limit my understanding to society dictates how then will any of us ever uplift our society. if your knee deep in it then its safe to say your of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    conformity yes but it was not always so this conformity springs due to the advent of society and its norms to conform to, without society, norms would change.
    Society norms change all the time, it just takes someone with enough free will to stand against the norm with good reason, to change it? Take Galileo Galilei for eg. dispite the strong views of the time (the society norm) he stood by his own convictions and was willing to die for them (infact did!) He was a religious man, as most people were at the time, yet he was able to see beyond doctrin and discover his own truths! :wink: Which incidentally turned out to be the truth

    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    glad we have this society i personally will follow the rules but if i limit my understanding to society dictates how then will any of us ever uplift our society.


    You must find some kind of balance between understand and drowning your free will! Or be able to understand fully, while still retaining your core beliefs of how something is wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    conformity yes but it was not always so this conformity springs due to the advent of society and its norms to conform to, without society, norms would change.
    Society norms change all the time, it just takes someone with enough free will to stand against the norm with good reason, to change it? Take Galileo Galilei for eg. dispite the strong views of the time (the society norm) he stood by his own convictions and was willing to die for them (infact did!) He was a religious man, as most people were at the time, yet he was able to see beyond doctrin and discover his own truths! :wink: Which incidentally turned out to be the truth

    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    glad we have this society i personally will follow the rules but if i limit my understanding to society dictates how then will any of us ever uplift our society.


    You must find some kind of balance between understand and drowning your free will! Or be able to understand fully, while still retaining your core beliefs of how something is wrong.
    Galileo Galilei was considered EVIL at the time! Or at least his views!
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    It is rubbish this idea that we have no free will.

    If that's your belief then so be it and it will come true!

    Do you not think that things we learned as children which we feel imprisons our wills can be changed and altered?

    These prisons are of your own making and you are holding the key.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    conformity yes but it was not always so this conformity springs due to the advent of society and its norms to conform to, without society, norms would change.
    Society norms change all the time, it just takes someone with enough free will to stand against the norm with good reason, to change it? Take Galileo Galilei for eg. dispite the strong views of the time (the society norm) he stood by his own convictions and was willing to die for them (infact did!) He was a religious man, as most people were at the time, yet he was able to see beyond doctrin and discover his own truths! :wink: Which incidentally turned out to be the truth

    Quote Originally Posted by curious1
    glad we have this society i personally will follow the rules but if i limit my understanding to society dictates how then will any of us ever uplift our society.


    You must find some kind of balance between understand and drowning your free will! Or be able to understand fully, while still retaining your core beliefs of how something is wrong.
    Galileo Galilei was considered EVIL at the time! Or at least his views!
    Spell evil backwards

    At least he wasn't afraid to do this

    Because he used his will!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Spell evil backwards
    At least Galileo's dog believed in him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    It is rubbish this idea that we have no free will.

    If that's your belief then so be it and it will come true!
    I hope people don't think this is what I believe to be true!?

    No matter the circumstance, everyone has the chance to make their own choices!

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Do you not think that things we learned as children which we feel imprisons our wills can be changed and altered?
    I certainly do! If things are stationary for you, you are not living!
    It is like stationary water, it will become stale, unclean and undrinkable!
    Flowing water, is perpetual movement. There is nothing fixed. Whatever your problems happen to be, remember that they cannot remain stationary but must move with the living spirit. Otherwise, you will attempt to solidify the ever flowing.
    We must strive to be like moving water, forever changing, adaptable!
    CHOICE OF DIRECTION!
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  67. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Spell evil backwards
    At least Galileo's dog believed in him.
    I like it!!!
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    In terms of free will......it depends on how you define WE. What we think of ourselves, our name, what we look like, the things we like and do, is almost all not decided by us; it is decided by chance. The chance that certain neurons created a certain signal and formed in a certain way. We are complete chance, even our personalities. Even if you consider chaos theory which I believe describes the possibility of total randomness, it is still not up to YOU what occurs. I cannot say for anyone else, but what little control I have over my life is in the form of higher level philosophical thought. The thought that originates out of chaos theory, chance, and will. Combined these leave a sort of singularity for which one must fill, sometimes the ''will'' fills in.
    Of all the wonders in the universe, none is likely more fascinating and complicated than human nature.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

    "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"

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  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Spell evil backwards
    At least Galileo's dog believed in him.
    I like it!!!
    Thats an interesting notion isn't it? God above man, Dog below him. So what is our, name from that? All three letters in the same place? Does that mean we are half God, half dog? . Maybe its symbolism? Is that the reason behind the fact that dogs are called a mans best friend? And that we get on with them better than any animal?
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  70. #69 balance 
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    what balance can one possibly find between norms and change, example; the black man who only wants to be equal to others in his society, however his society is entrenched in the norms and despite their rehtoric have as of yet nor will they ever see him as equal. finding a balance in that situation is tantamount to accepting a wrong of second class citizenship.

    Majority rule i.e. society norms are a forced attrition made so by the majority. finding a balance in the above case is nothing more then a waiver. Fredrick Douglass said it best:

    POWER CONCIDES NOTHING WITHOUT DEMAND
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Spell evil backwards
    At least Galileo's dog believed in him.
    I like it!!!
    Thats an interesting notion isn't it? God above man, Dog below him. So what is our, name from that? All three letters in the same place? Does that mean we are half God, half dog? . Maybe its symbolism? Is that the reason behind the fact that dogs are called a mans best friend? And that we get on with them better than any animal?
    Ask any old vet what hell is, he'll tell you, 'Nam, man, NAM.

    Lleh. :P Now what?
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    Don't you think it's canny that EVIL spells LIVE

    And DEVIL spells LIVED

    Backwards??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Don't you think it's canny that EVIL spells LIVE

    And DEVIL spells LIVED

    Backwards??
    I realised this a while ago, but have never been able to come to a comprehensive conclusion as to why?

    Have you any thoughts?
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  74. #73  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Spell evil backwards
    At least Galileo's dog believed in him.
    I like it!!!
    Thats an interesting notion isn't it? God above man, Dog below him. So what is our, name from that? All three letters in the same place? Does that mean we are half God, half dog? . Maybe its symbolism? Is that the reason behind the fact that dogs are called a mans best friend? And that we get on with them better than any animal?
    Ask any old vet what hell is, he'll tell you, 'Nam, man, NAM.

    Lleh. :P Now what?
    Never heard that before!
    I have no idea!?
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    Dog doo--good God!
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    REVILED → DELIVER
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    Devil. Lived, you have lived and learned, just as Satan aquired knowledge from the tree of knowledge through woman ini the garden of eden, thus as a result anyone who learns a lot, ie lived. Has become more like the devil. If you remain innocent however, like me :wink:, then you haven't technically lived, ie doing all the things that are classed as sinful; which I won't do.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  78. #77  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    just as Satan aquired knowledge from the tree of knowledge through woman ini the garden of eden

    That's right fellas...if you want knowledge

    It's over here in this lush undergrowth!

    Just take a bite out of thisss apple firsssst pleasssesss
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  79. #78  
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    Don't joke about it, you have no idea what your joking about. Its strange how you always think, 'it will never happen to me'. Something will happen one day if you keep doing this.

    The Ape will always mock the scribe, for in his very words the truth will hide.
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  80. #79  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Don't joke about it, you have no idea what your joking about. Its strange how you always think, 'it will never happen to me'. Something will happen one day if you keep doing this.

    The Ape will always mock the scribe, for in his very words the truth will hide.

    Joke? Svwillmer lighten up will you.

    You are too dark and oppressive sometimes with all this doom and gloom!

    If you believe that God made everything, then who do you think made humour?

    What will happen Svwillmer? And keep doing what exactly?

    And why have you quoted my saying about the Ape?

    Do you know what that saying really means??
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  81. #80  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Do you not think that things we learned as children which we feel imprisons our wills can be changed and altered?

    These prisons are of your own making and you are holding the key.
    There are prisons within prisons and walls you cannot see.
    There are paths you choose to take but that choice may not be free.
    There are ripples in still water when no stone is tossed
    Many draughts that cause the ripple come o'er voids that can’t be crossed.


    Apologies to Jerry Garcia and Daniel Dennett.

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    Women are the root of all evil.

    Woman= time x money.
    time=money
    Woman= money^2
    money=evil.
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  83. #82  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinker
    Women are the root of all evil.

    Woman= time x money.
    time=money
    Woman= money^2
    money=evil.
    That’s making it “woman is the square of all evil” – or “evil is the root of all woman”!

    I know what what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to prove that “women are evil” using the assumption “money is the root of evil”. But you messed it up! Hahaha!
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    Thank you for so kindly pointing this out to me. >.>

    I must ask though, does this make you feel at all superior to me by being so rude?
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  85. #84  
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    Oh no, I wasn’t being rude. I just thought it was hilarious that it needed a woman to point it out to you.
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    Hah! Ironic indeed! I still stick to the premise that women are the root of all evil though.
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    Thinker

    Could you validate your user-name by constructing a more logical argument as proof of your claim without using erroneous formulas?
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  88. #87  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Thinker

    Could you validate your user-name by constructing a more logical argument as proof of your claim without using erroneous formulas?
    It was just meant to be a joke.
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  89. #88  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Thinker

    Could you validate your user-name by constructing a more logical argument as proof of your claim without using erroneous formulas?
    It was just meant to be a joke.
    I'm sure it was, but i'd be interested in hearing his argument.

    Considering I'm inclined to agree
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  90. #89  
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    The argument is meant to go as follows. From the following three premises,

    I. Money is the root of evil
    II. Time is money
    III. Women are the product of time and money

    prove that women are evil.

    Proof

    1. women = time × money … [premise III]

    2. time = money … [premise II]

    3. women = money × money = money<sup>2</sup> … [1 & 2]

    4. money = √(evil) … [premise I]

    5. women = (√(evil))<sup>2</sup> = evil … [3 & 4]

    QED
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  91. #90  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    The argument is meant to go as follows. From the following three premises,

    I. Money is the root of evil
    II. Time is money
    III. Women are the product of time and money

    prove that women are evil.

    Proof

    1. women = time × money … [premise III]

    2. time = money … [premise II]

    3. women = money × money = money<sup>2</sup> … [1 & 2]

    4. money = √(evil) … [premise I]

    5. women = (√(evil))<sup>2</sup> = evil … [3 & 4]

    QED

    Well it doesn't make sense how a woman is a product of time and money

    For that matter anything could be

    e.g building a house takes time and money

    cars take time and money

    having a holiday takes time and money etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc .................................................. .................................................. ...............................
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  92. #91  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneBennet
    The argument is meant to go as follows. From the following three premises,

    I. Money is the root of evil
    II. Time is money
    III. Women are the product of time and money

    prove that women are evil.

    Proof

    1. women = time × money … [premise III]

    2. time = money … [premise II]

    3. women = money × money = money<sup>2</sup> … [1 & 2]

    4. money = √(evil) … [premise I]

    5. women = (√(evil))<sup>2</sup> = evil … [3 & 4]

    QED
    Hey, I've seen that before!
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  93. #92  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Fusion
    Humans.
    Really fabulous answer!
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  94. #93  
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    JaneBennet wrote,
    Suppose you don’t approve of a certain society’s way of life – which you consider “evil”. You send a couple pilots to fly their planes into two of their buildings and cause anguish and mayhem to that society whose way of life you consider “evil”. However your tactic is considered “evil” by many (and not just by those upon whom you’ve just inflicted your terrorist wound). So: do you think countering “evil” with another “evil” is justified?

    I have a lot of issues with this particular paragraph as the fact is,
    Two Wrongs Don't Make A Wright!
    I think that good will always conquer evil in the end, only this comes to god like circumstances and if there is a god which I personally do believe there is a god.
    How long will it take before humanity is at a united peace also depends on the balance of evil, but maybe we do need a permanent balance of good and evil to progress and evolve as an intelligent species.
    Also if we were truly an intelligent species would we destroy ourselves not just worldwide but in everyday living.

    Apparently it takes five good satisfactions/feelings a day to make up for one bad!

    Doesn't this make everyday living quite evil.
    I now put this in perspective with my agnostic religious views,
    Life is maybe a test so maybe we do need evil after all.

    I'm certainly not clever in any way, however;
    Good / Evil = Life
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  95. #94  
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    Two Wrongs Don't Make A Wright!
    I agree. I believe a pen does that.

    Jane made a good point. The concept of evil is relative. The moral imperative of how to deal with evil is also relative. What standard of good and evil is the right one? Quran, Bible, Torah, etc? Which interpretation/s of each is correct?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  96. #95  
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    There is no such thing as evil and no such thing as good, this is true in a literal sense - evil or good do not exist in form or as things.

    Perception of physical events made by the human brain define if a thing is sounded or written as the word evil/good.

    What the words describes in essense are specifically an individuals perception of an event.

    Same with right and wrong. There is no evidence known to man which defines one man being right about being right and another wrong about being wrong, only what the majority tell you or those who are apparently of higher stature or interlect in some way.

    We in our individual minds are the only true judges of our actions being evil/good right/wrong.

    The 'root' of either is surley defined by the original perception or overlook of the event in question?
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  97. #96  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlrow
    There is no such thing as evil and no such thing as good, this is true in a literal sense - evil or good do not exist in form or as things.
    Of course they don't but there are actions that can fit into the categories of good and evil. Therefore those actions will be deemed good or evil, thus a person who does either will be percived to be good or evil. Thus good and evil are such things.

    Perception of physical events made by the human brain define if a thing is sounded or written as the word evil/good.
    Much akin to a tuning fork and a particular pet of pavlos'.

    What the words describes in essense are specifically an individuals perception of an event.
    Yes but we all accept the notion of good and evil, some atheists, agnostics, even theists may not see it as either, but they're brains have been risen with it-its part of they're psychological composition.

    Same with right and wrong. There is no evidence known to man which defines one man being right about being right and another wrong about being wrong, only what the majority tell you or those who are apparently of higher stature or interlect in some way.
    I cut off someone's hand in Afghanistan for stealing, that is right. I do it here, that is wrong. Which way is going to advance us a civilisation more? Unfortuanelty the highest stature for a lot of people is God, and I don't think He's going to change all the rules all of a sudden, is he?

    We in our individual minds are the only true judges of our actions being evil/good right/wrong.
    I disagree, some people will think it right to kill another human being. So will others think its wrong to help another person in need.

    The 'root' of either is surley defined by the original perception or overlook of the event in question?
    Thr root is what spreads across the Earth and controls everything, giving more life to evil. Money. Thats the old notion of the root, and it shall remain, seeing as it has caused far more pain and suffering than any other man made invention ever created.

    PS, None of my posts are meant as sarcastic or condescending. My arguement has no personal agenda. I'm simply trying to learn and wish for all others to as well.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    I think that in essense a 'good' is something which is totally immeasureable, a thing which is such that it cannot have any boundaries, it has no start to start a measure, no inbetween to try to measure to find the end. One man may 'think' of that action as being good to a certain degree and another man is thinking of it to a lesser degree, one man/woman may even think of it as evil.. What is the true degree of measureing this good?

    I cannot answer this, so i cannot help but think that the very perception of good/right, wrong/evil are entirley dependent upon the individual and hold no evident truth as being solid in confirming if this event or action is good or evil and to what degree.

    To catagorise is to create a catagory within our own minds which is seemingly inexpressable to one another in a solid, fully understandable way.
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  99. #98 Re: The Root of All Evil 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sum1bor3d
    What's your opinion on the root of all evil?

    There was a huge debate between money and ignorance on this forum and I just wanted to know what your guys opinion are on this.

    http://www.rapbattles.com/forum/show...il-365639.html
    1. greed
    2. lies
    3. lust
    love will endure when you keep it pure...^_^
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  100. #99  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    I think evil can't be pinned onto any specific thing such as money etc.

    All material things in life have duality therefore money can bring good as well as evil, it depends on who's holding it.

    I think evil comes about when there is too much thought without feeling.

    Neurologists and phrenologists have recently discovered that morals are not developed exclusively through reason and the thinking function as was thought for a long time.

    They have discovered that morals are produced through the feeling function.

    And feelings are a learned syntax like language.

    How we feel about something being right or wrong dictates the choices of whether we do good or bad.

    Someone without this capacity such as a psychopath is highly capable of evil.

    For centuries throughout mythology and patriarchal religions and societies the feminine was thought to be the darker element and more capable of evil than a man because she was considered to base her judgments and decisions on emotion rather than reason.

    Reason was seen to be a male quality and the golden boy of good morals.

    This new scientific evidence seems to throw a different light on things doesn't it?

    [NO i am NOT flaming, just thinking whilst rubbing my chin in a masculine way whilst feeling rather smug in an emotionally female way]

    yeah, i got your point. I can say that evil comes first on mind, or the way a person thinks. After thinking such thing which is evil, it will manifest through acts. The person acts the way he or she thinks. As the person acts continuously that way, it will become his/her destiny.....destiny of being a slave of evil.

    males have emotions too. gender has nothing to do of how bad the person is or there's no absolute to that matter.
    love will endure when you keep it pure...^_^
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    A very impudent question.
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